On July 03 2012 21:50 skrillex123 wrote: Doodsmack first it was hacking, now it's maphacking then got account leveled. You need to chill out. Until you got more evidence just be quiet. and stop whispering all my friends for replays. ur harassment is getting really annoying. I DONT HACK, isuruscham DOESNT HACK just stop accusing everyone if you don't have evidence. It's serious for top tier players
Lol I haven't asked your friends for replays unless isurus is your friend. And please don't claim that you use different hotkeys in team games and 1v1s. Your account got leveled into GM despite your association with blatant fog of war peaking teammates and probable hacking yourself. The leveler deserves to be outed.
yeah he is my friend and yeah i do use different hotkeys. different hotkeys for whatever im doing for different strats too. alright u can keep looking for evidence but please use a different tone. you talk like you have the evidence already. all you have is suspicion ok?
On July 03 2012 21:50 skrillex123 wrote: Doodsmack first it was hacking, now it's maphacking then got account leveled. You need to chill out. Until you got more evidence just be quiet. and stop whispering all my friends for replays. ur harassment is getting really annoying. I DONT HACK, isuruscham DOESNT HACK just stop accusing everyone if you don't have evidence. It's serious for top tier players
Lol I haven't asked your friends for replays unless isurus is your friend. And please don't claim that you use different hotkeys in team games and 1v1s. Your account got leveled into GM despite your association with blatant fog of war peaking teammates and probable hacking yourself. The leveler deserves to be outed.
Watch out with your claim, I personally used different hotkeys in 1v1 and team games, as for my apm its quite different as well, I can even provide replays of this just to prove we can't base any allegations on that. Team replays date from quite a while though as I haven't played those any in a few seasons... but still, it isn't something you can judge people off as solo and team games don't require the same mind state People would call me "apm clown" as I didn't have anything else to do than spammign which would make my average be 300-400. In solo, needless to say I can't do that and average 100-180 only. I would set myself new hotkeys in team games, just to get used to them for 1v1 later on.
Let's not accuse people with poor evidences, I really don't want to get into that.
hey well i think u cant ban this guy right? except if more people complain about him... he immidiatly went to the right direction of a 4 players map and started to massively block me. the other things could be really fast reaction and good game read too... so idk... here's the replay
On July 04 2012 01:56 GodOfWarAReS wrote: hey well i think u cant ban this guy right? except if more people complain about him... he immidiatly went to the right direction of a 4 players map and started to massively block me. the other things could be really fast reaction and good game read too... so idk... here's the replay
On July 04 2012 01:56 GodOfWarAReS wrote: hey well i think u cant ban this guy right? except if more people complain about him... he immidiatly went to the right direction of a 4 players map and started to massively block me. the other things could be really fast reaction and good game read too... so idk... here's the replay
GM Dood...I think catz (?) was saying on his stream how this dude blind countered him during a game. I played him shortly after. Look at how he looks at my army several times behind FOW and etc.
On June 16 2012 12:13 neversummer wrote: Hey guys. I found another maphacker today while laddering. At this point he is somewhere around mid masters so I figured it appropriate to post it here, particularly since this thread gains so many views.
Name: whysomad (typical, right?) ID: ?
Alright so I've included the replay, and I mean this guy isn't even remotely good at hiding it. Consistently looking at my base through fog of war, countering me perfectly, etc. I'll list a few key moments that, if you watch the replay, will 100% confirm he is a maphacker.
1. Sends a reaper to my base w/o scouting on a 4 player map (antiga). 2. Looks at my 1/1/1, thinks it's cloakshee and builds a turret, looks back a moment later to see it's not, cancels turret. 3. Sends his army to intercept my scouting marine, once again without vision. 4. Sends his army to intercept my push without vision, handily defeats it and gives me a pre-emptive gg (yea, this guy needs to be banned).
LiquidSheth played this guy right before he got off to practice for i believe Homestory cup, two or three days ago and even asked the guy on stream if he was stream sniping during game cause of certain things that had happened. Its the game where the guy keeps commenting on how chubby his fingers are.
On July 04 2012 07:08 Faqtiskt wrote: @Hummingbird I watched the reaplay and perhaps I'm wrong, but did he even know your location? And plus, he generally plays protoss... not zerg lol.
Yeah he knew my location, cause his overlord scout saw no base at bottom left i think? Leaving my spawn the only one left. I'm convinced he maphacks with the evidence present though.
On July 03 2012 21:50 skrillex123 wrote: Doodsmack first it was hacking, now it's maphacking then got account leveled. You need to chill out. Until you got more evidence just be quiet. and stop whispering all my friends for replays. ur harassment is getting really annoying. I DONT HACK, isuruscham DOESNT HACK just stop accusing everyone if you don't have evidence. It's serious for top tier players
Hmm... can you ask him what that blind fast defensive spine off a no scout 9 pool on Condemned Ridge of all maps was about, given that Kane went 10 pool lings? It's just really really fishy... now I'm actually not familiar with Kane's ZvZ so maybe he only cheeses or some shit, but it would be good to know... not to mention some other play in that replay was kind of fishy as well that other people have mentioned.
How is that even fun to maphack and be at the top...knowing you could never go to an actual tournament to play would be depressing to me more than not being at the top of the ladder.
On May 28 2012 13:33 Pinna wrote: I feel like that blizzard really doesn't give a fu*k about all the hackers in StarCraft 2. For how many months did the RatZ dude (Can't rembember his name) go on until he was finally banned, banning almost-innocent destiny at the same time? The report-function in game, I 100% believe that they don't even monitor that. You can spam the report, write tons of shit on those, and still nothing happens.
StarCraft 2 doesn't even have it's own gamemasters, and some of the gamemasters have no idea about starcraft.. (tickets)
Personally, I have gotten the feeling that Blizzard doesn't give a shit about anything, except if it can get them money. Much money.
Well they are a company, but this problem needs resolved because the more Blizzard show they don't care, the more that it will happen.
Hello , i am not a big accusator or bm guy i must agree i found this game pretty weird , watched the replay and conclude the guys is probably a map hacker
ID: GAGOOOOOOOOO Server: America Record 42-26 , 662 Master
Why i think he map hacK? Antigua Shipyard , doesnt scout at all , send a probe to make robo and gate at the 3rd base right behind my base wich is cross map , does a 6 gate warp prism play vs gazless expand ... warp in the smoke...
In game i ask : why do such a strat with no Intel? gg wp
After Game: GAGOOOOOOOOO: cuz this is my troll account GAGOOOOOOOOO has reconnected. GAGOOOOOOOOO: i dont care if i lose You: same but you gotta admit its retard to do stuff like that GAGOOOOOOOOO: yep thats why i did it
After i watched replay
You: do you map hack? GAGOOOOOOOOO: no You: why you didnt scout any other base? GAGOOOOOOOOO: ur scout timing was condusive to a cross-map spawn You: this sound too smart for someone who does retard strat xD have a good day GAGOOOOOOOOO: im gm on my main like i said jsut a troll account i would have left if u asked me to.
anyway i hope i don't falsy accuse the guy but i think the replay is conclusive. I know he is not that high in master but probably will soon. I usually play : High Master / low GM mmr
On July 04 2012 11:36 QxGRockEr wrote: i have a replay of me vs vEncido zerg top NA masters player. very positive he hacks. if anyone wants rep msg me i can send over skype
I would just post it here, and many people can look at it. If he truly is hacking why not share it with the thread?
On July 04 2012 08:43 ODKStevez wrote: Well they are a company, but this problem needs resolved because the more Blizzard show they don't care, the more that it will happen.
Let's say you're Blizzard, and you're trying to stop hackers. $100,000 a year minimum. Probably much more.
Let's say you set up infrastructure for an automated report system in Battle.net, allowing submission of replays. Say it's a given that replays submitted for hacking reports must have been viewed at least once. (To prevent the millions of spurious and unfounded accusations of hacking which would inevitably be submitted.)
Now let's say you set up a data analysis system to analyze submitted replay data for hacks. Since detected hacks are continuously replaced by newer hacks and bypasses, this means at least one programmer to constantly update data &c. More likely, you need a team.
Any such team would further have to work with existing SC2 teams to integrate antihack patching.
It isn't just a matter of having the existing SC2 teams do antihacking data analysis and reprogramming. The existing SC2 teams already each have their own jobs, even if they were qualified to do antihacking data analysis - which they may very well not be. (There are different areas of expertise in programming, and data analysis is not the same as thing as game programming).
Now let's say also that you need translation and support teams. It isn't enough to just take in replay data; players suspecting hacks may have particular reasons for suspecting hacks that cannot be readily identified with data analysis.
Besides those costs, the amount of data being sent to Blizzard would probably require additional server setup - which of course requires more money.
Even then, that's the absolute minimum cost. If Blizzard were to put "serious" attention to addressing hackers, including followups on reports and individual analysis of suspect replays, the time and staff costs would skyrocket. I wouldn't imagine $100K would even begin to cover it in that case.
--
I think it's a gross exaggeration to say Blizzard doesn't care, or that Blizzard's only in it for the money. Obviously, a company cares about its product, if only to the extent of protecting its perceived value to its customers by eliminating negative influences such as hacking.
On the other hand, there's a limit to the extent a company can reasonably be expected to police its own product. A house can be covered with toilet paper and eggs, but that doesn't mean toilet paper manufacturers and farmers should be held responsible for establishing and paying for neighborhood watches to ensure their product isn't misused. That may sound a little ridiculous, but things far more dangerous are still relatively unregulated. Where to Mexican drug cartels get all their guns? (They certainly aren't homemade.) Why are there so many accidents related to talking on cell phones or excessive drinking? We're talking about things that destabilize countries and destroy lives, but which still aren't policed to the degree that's being suggested as "reasonable" in this and other threads for Blizzard.
Explain, please, why Blizzard should be held to a different standard.
I'm not saying hacking should be ignored. What I am saying is that there isn't any legal basis for holding Blizzard responsible for third party hackers. What I am saying is that the degree of apparent responsibility that people seem to be thinking Blizzard should be held to is *abnormal* in light of the degree of regulation in other industries.
What I am saying is that there is a real cost associated with dealing properly with hacking, and that Blizzard's failure to deal with hacking as some customers would like it to is *reasonable*, considering that real cost, considering their lack of legal responsibility, and considering the degree of responsibility that other companies take regarding their products. As far as allowing people to "volunteer" their services - ever since the Ultima Online volunteer class action lawsuit, that's probably not an approach Blizzard (or any other company) is eager to leap into.
--
What this all means is - it's not a great situation, but it's the hand that's been dealt. I'm not saying people shouldn't complain about Blizzard; I think it's good that posters with grievances should make their opinion known. But posters should think more about real-world considerations and make suggestions or direct discussion along those lines if they really want any productive results.
On July 04 2012 08:43 ODKStevez wrote: Well they are a company, but this problem needs resolved because the more Blizzard show they don't care, the more that it will happen.
Let's say you're Blizzard, and you're trying to stop hackers. $100,000 a year minimum. Probably much more.
Let's say you set up infrastructure for an automated report system in Battle.net, allowing submission of replays. Say it's a given that replays submitted for hacking reports must have been viewed at least once. (To prevent the millions of spurious and unfounded accusations of hacking which would inevitably be submitted.)
Now let's say you set up a data analysis system to analyze submitted replay data for hacks. Since detected hacks are continuously replaced by newer hacks and bypasses, this means at least one programmer to constantly update data &c. More likely, you need a team.
Any such team would further have to work with existing SC2 teams to integrate antihack patching.
It isn't just a matter of having the existing SC2 teams do antihacking data analysis and reprogramming. The existing SC2 teams already each have their own jobs, even if they were qualified to do antihacking data analysis - which they may very well not be. (There are different areas of expertise in programming, and data analysis is not the same as thing as game programming).
Now let's say also that you need translation and support teams. It isn't enough to just take in replay data; players suspecting hacks may have particular reasons for suspecting hacks that cannot be readily identified with data analysis.
Besides those costs, the amount of data being sent to Blizzard would probably require additional server setup - which of course requires more money.
Even then, that's the absolute minimum cost. If Blizzard were to put "serious" attention to addressing hackers, including followups on reports and individual analysis of suspect replays, the time and staff costs would skyrocket. I wouldn't imagine $100K would even begin to cover it in that case.
--
I think it's a gross exaggeration to say Blizzard doesn't care, or that Blizzard's only in it for the money. Obviously, a company cares about its product, if only to the extent of protecting its perceived value to its customers by eliminating negative influences such as hacking.
On the other hand, there's a limit to the extent a company can reasonably be expected to police its own product. A house can be covered with toilet paper and eggs, but that doesn't mean toilet paper manufacturers and farmers should be held responsible for establishing and paying for neighborhood watches to ensure their product isn't misused. That may sound a little ridiculous, but things far more dangerous are still relatively unregulated. Where to Mexican drug cartels get all their guns? (They certainly aren't homemade.) Why are there so many accidents related to talking on cell phones or excessive drinking? We're talking about things that destabilize countries and destroy lives, but which still aren't policed to the degree that's being suggested as "reasonable" in this and other threads for Blizzard.
Explain, please, why Blizzard should be held to a different standard.
I'm not saying hacking should be ignored. What I am saying is that there isn't any legal basis for holding Blizzard responsible for third party hackers. What I am saying is that the degree of apparent responsibility that people seem to be thinking Blizzard should be held to is *abnormal* in light of the degree of regulation in other industries.
What I am saying is that there is a real cost associated with dealing properly with hacking, and that Blizzard's failure to deal with hacking as some customers would like it to is *reasonable*, considering that real cost, considering their lack of legal responsibility, and considering the degree of responsibility that other companies take regarding their products. As far as allowing people to "volunteer" their services - ever since the Ultima Online volunteer class action lawsuit, that's probably not an approach Blizzard (or any other company) is eager to leap into.
--
What this all means is - it's not a great situation, but it's the hand that's been dealt. I'm not saying people shouldn't complain about Blizzard; I think it's good that posters with grievances should make their opinion known. But posters should think more about real-world considerations and make suggestions or direct discussion along those lines if they really want any productive results.
If things like ICCUP could have antihack that worked better than blizzard currently (i know they were free accounts so you could make many but the account would most likely eventually be banned) and it was free and ICCUP wasn't making tons of money in the same way Blizzard can I am sure.
So yes, Blizzard can improve their stance at the very least somewhat lets be honest here.
And as a note, I wouldn't mind paying 40 bucks or 60 bucks for a year. I know I did it for XBL due to quality of server maintenance and generally good anti hack protection and I wouldn't mind doing it for SC2.
Notes (only one thing I consider conclusive): - Never scouts - Blind counters my 2rax in a nonsensical manner considering his opening - Goes to build a proxy pylon at my third, still not knowing my spawn position - ** Dodges my army through the fog of war with his probe going to build the proxy **
Here's my analysis on youtube if you'd prefer that format:
He's not top 400 right now, but just putting this here since he's still going and has a ridiculous record.
On July 04 2012 12:13 ZeromuS wrote: If things like ICCUP could have antihack that worked better than blizzard currently (i know they were free accounts so you could make many but the account would most likely eventually be banned) and it was free and ICCUP wasn't making tons of money in the same way Blizzard can I am sure.
So yes, Blizzard can improve their stance at the very least somewhat lets be honest here.
And as a note, I wouldn't mind paying 40 bucks or 60 bucks for a year. I know I did it for XBL due to quality of server maintenance and generally good anti hack protection and I wouldn't mind doing it for SC2.
You're stretching a bit here, I think. (Personal opinion.) Especially when you're saying "lets be honest here."
The more popular a service is, the more hackers go to attack it. ICCUP is arguably less popular than Blizzard as a whole. Even so, you don't have to look far to find ICCUP hacks. Just do a youtube search for it. Took me 5 seconds.
In light of that, I don't see any clear superiority to Blizzard in the hack department.
If you're suggesting Blizzard should somehow integrate with ICCUP, perhaps you should write Blizzard a nice letter. (Maybe Blizzard just doesn't know about ICCUP's antihack at all? or if they know, maybe Blizzard just hasn't considered integration for whatever reason? perhaps simple reasons that a nice letter could solve? I doubt it. But maybe I'm wrong in this.)
Regarding your personal willingness to pay 40-60 dollars, that's fine for you, but I think if Blizzard announced that Battle.net would now require a 40 to 60 dollar annual fee to use, but that they would implement antihack, that people would just end up playing another game. SC2 isn't a MMORPG with regular content release like WoW. Being honest? Sure, let's be honest. Do you really see most people lining up to pay a regular annual subscription fee to use Battle.net, considering the current competition for the entertainment dollar, and the history of Battle.net? (I don't. But then, that's personal opinion.)
As far as XBL featuring good antihack protection -
Again, 5 seconds. Not hard to find. This is a premium regulated service.
Once again, let me emphasize - real world considerations. I'm seeing a posted reply that says "it shouldn't be a problem, and I'd personally be willing to pay 40-60 a year." But the posted reply doesn't account for the fact that hacking IS a problem (even for premium services), nor does it begin to consider that most players may not share the same mindset when it comes to disposable income. It's just more poorly considered bashing, to my mind, topped off by the condescending "lets be honest here".
But then, you know, really, I don't think that was MEANT to be condescending, which is the mark of really great condescension. "You wouldn't understand, just get back in the kitchen now and look pretty" &c.
It's amazing how simple it is to solve things, especially when you don't need a solution that works.
(Oh, all right, that's a *bit* of a dig there. But really, let's be honest here.)
EPT
