EPTPvP moves between bases and aggression are quite predictable. I don't think that catching some units in very possible locations could be considered a seroius evidence of hacking.
Relax a bit Avilo.
GM / Master map hacker and general hacking and cheating th…
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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody. Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
PvP moves between bases and aggression are quite predictable. I don't think that catching some units in very possible locations could be considered a seroius evidence of hacking. Relax a bit Avilo. | ||
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zer0slayer
5 Posts
On April 12 2015 18:01 starslayer wrote: LOL i could care less if winter hacks we all now he is scum but come on LOL very first post and its here lol that you winter? No I have a life | ||
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ProTech
United States439 Posts
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JulDraGoN
Sweden370 Posts
It sounds horrible I know. That is the mentally I went in with when I started looking at avilo's 2 hour long analysis of a 12 minute game. 2 hours for a 12 minute game, this has to be packed with high quality evidence! Now I just feel empty. There is nothing strange at all going on with that replay. Nothing at all. Just circumstantial supposedly "suspicious" stuff. One of the biggest talking points he mentions is that Winter is looking to the side and queuing up commands. Is he looking at some kind of maphack? Is the queuing of commands some kind of weird cheat that tries to interpret his opponents movements? Or is he just reading his twitch chat? Winter is a professional streamer, not a professional gamer. One part of a professional streamers success is a heavy interaction with the audience. We know he talks to his chat during his games, so we know he can read the chat as he is playing. It is not inconceivable that looking at the chat becomes just something you do out of habit after streaming for years. If you know you will be looking away, is it inconceivable that you would queue up commands before doing so? He always cancels them when he looks back, why doesn't he just leave them if it is a hack? 1) Queue up some commands 2) Look at second monitor to read the chat 3) Look back to the game and cancel commands Is this really supposed to be a strange set of operations? Then you have the comments like: "He looks to the side and smirks, like he knows he has been caught, what is he smiling for?" Well, he could have just read something amusing in his chat? Perhaps the wise thing is to apply Occam's razor? | ||
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Justinian
United Kingdom158 Posts
I'm also baffled that Avilo expects Winter to stare directly at the centre of his screen the whole time while streaming and playing. Avilo, stop being so paranoid. It doesn't reflect well on you. | ||
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WinterStarcraft
United States109 Posts
6:24 Winter's Command Centers both rally to Observer leaving huk's natural. This is most likely a legitimate mistake/misclick? Rally is along pathing of obs, Happens again later at winter's natural when the second observer gets closer...still could be legitimate mistake, interesting that it happens twice with observers nearby though 6:28 Moving marine/marauder to observer he doesn't know is there in the fog of war, starts clicking to it 9:13 winter's screen jumps to near the stasis ward again...not his units at first as he breaks down rocks First section marine is literally hotkeyed to a move command BEFORE the observer even is finished producing. Secondly the observer is rallied towards the natural of huk, not towards the marine which is ALREADY MOVING BEFORE IT FINISHED. Scouting for a 3rd is now maphack evidence. Secondly, the observer ends up outside my natural. I can't believe i would click "Moving marine/marauder to observer he doesn't know is there in the fog of war, starts clicking to it " outside of my natural, planning to attack. THE ONLY PLACE I COULD POSSIBLY MOVE OUT MY GROUND FORCES seems to be where I was clicking. Hacks confirmed. 9:13 winter's screen jumps to near the stasis ward again...not his units at first as he breaks down rocks At no point is the stasis ward even in my vision range. This is literally made up rofl. Past that I actually run into a stasis ward and lost about 20 supply because of it. I couldn't make it any further I apologize. | ||
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codonbyte
United States840 Posts
On April 12 2015 20:51 WinterStarcraft wrote: + Show Spoiler + My final required (arguably post on this thread). Every bit of evidence posted is either obviously wrong (top example is avilos previous post where he says - 6:24 Winter's Command Centers both rally to Observer leaving huk's natural. This is most likely a legitimate mistake/misclick? Rally is along pathing of obs, Happens again later at winter's natural when the second observer gets closer...still could be legitimate mistake, interesting that it happens twice with observers nearby though 6:28 Moving marine/marauder to observer he doesn't know is there in the fog of war, starts clicking to it 9:13 winter's screen jumps to near the stasis ward again...not his units at first as he breaks down rocks First section marine is literally hotkeyed to a move command BEFORE the observer even is finished producing. Secondly the observer is rallied towards the natural of huk, not towards the marine which is ALREADY MOVING BEFORE IT FINISHED. Scouting for a 3rd is now maphack evidence. Secondly, the observer ends up outside my natural. I can't believe i would click "Moving marine/marauder to observer he doesn't know is there in the fog of war, starts clicking to it " outside of my natural, planning to attack. THE ONLY PLACE I COULD POSSIBLY MOVE OUT MY GROUND FORCES seems to be where I was clicking. Hacks confirmed. 9:13 winter's screen jumps to near the stasis ward again...not his units at first as he breaks down rocks At no point is the stasis ward even in my vision range. This is literally made up rofl. Past that I actually run into a stasis ward and lost about 20 supply because of it. I couldn't make it any further I apologize. Yeah dude, the stasis ward wasn't even in your vision range. That's why you're suspected of maphacking; because you appeared to react to something that you shouldn't have been able to see. | ||
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ScorpionSC
United States21 Posts
Everyone knows the truth, it was obviously Loopy playing on your account and using his 6th sense to read Avilos mind. Ignore the trovillo. On April 12 2015 20:51 WinterStarcraft wrote: My final required (arguably post on this thread). Every bit of evidence posted is either obviously wrong (top example is avilos previous post where he says - 6:24 Winter's Command Centers both rally to Observer leaving huk's natural. This is most likely a legitimate mistake/misclick? Rally is along pathing of obs, Happens again later at winter's natural when the second observer gets closer...still could be legitimate mistake, interesting that it happens twice with observers nearby though 6:28 Moving marine/marauder to observer he doesn't know is there in the fog of war, starts clicking to it 9:13 winter's screen jumps to near the stasis ward again...not his units at first as he breaks down rocks First section marine is literally hotkeyed to a move command BEFORE the observer even is finished producing. Secondly the observer is rallied towards the natural of huk, not towards the marine which is ALREADY MOVING BEFORE IT FINISHED. Scouting for a 3rd is now maphack evidence. Secondly, the observer ends up outside my natural. I can't believe i would click "Moving marine/marauder to observer he doesn't know is there in the fog of war, starts clicking to it " outside of my natural, planning to attack. THE ONLY PLACE I COULD POSSIBLY MOVE OUT MY GROUND FORCES seems to be where I was clicking. Hacks confirmed. 9:13 winter's screen jumps to near the stasis ward again...not his units at first as he breaks down rocks At no point is the stasis ward even in my vision range. This is literally made up rofl. Past that I actually run into a stasis ward and lost about 20 supply because of it. I couldn't make it any further I apologize. | ||
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Promised_pain
Finland61 Posts
That's just normal gameplay, HuK just happens to have his phoenix at the space between 3rd and nat. It has nothing to do with him following the phoenix. | ||
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HsDLTitich
Italy830 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On April 12 2015 20:51 WinterStarcraft wrote: My final required (arguably post on this thread). Every bit of evidence posted is either obviously wrong (top example is avilos previous post where he says - 6:24 Winter's Command Centers both rally to Observer leaving huk's natural. This is most likely a legitimate mistake/misclick? Rally is along pathing of obs, Happens again later at winter's natural when the second observer gets closer...still could be legitimate mistake, interesting that it happens twice with observers nearby though 6:28 Moving marine/marauder to observer he doesn't know is there in the fog of war, starts clicking to it 9:13 winter's screen jumps to near the stasis ward again...not his units at first as he breaks down rocks First section marine is literally hotkeyed to a move command BEFORE the observer even is finished producing. Secondly the observer is rallied towards the natural of huk, not towards the marine which is ALREADY MOVING BEFORE IT FINISHED. Scouting for a 3rd is now maphack evidence. Secondly, the observer ends up outside my natural. I can't believe i would click "Moving marine/marauder to observer he doesn't know is there in the fog of war, starts clicking to it " outside of my natural, planning to attack. THE ONLY PLACE I COULD POSSIBLY MOVE OUT MY GROUND FORCES seems to be where I was clicking. Hacks confirmed. 9:13 winter's screen jumps to near the stasis ward again...not his units at first as he breaks down rocks At no point is the stasis ward even in my vision range. This is literally made up rofl. Past that I actually run into a stasis ward and lost about 20 supply because of it. I couldn't make it any further I apologize. You ignored all of this because of course it is unexplainable by you: "Strongest Evidence: The three very blatant instances in the same game of winter following/locating cloaked units through the fog of war at: 6:04-6:07 - marine going for cloaked observer 6:28 - winter starts clicking to observer that's in fog of war 11:17- 11:30 - winter seems to know the exact location of a stasis ward, clicks his units to it, later orders them to stop just before the stasis ward, then again later momentarily attempts to path around the stasis ward" Scouting for a third is indeed not maphack evidence. But you looking for a cloaked unit in the fog of war that you do not know exists with your marine is maphack evidence. You do it a second time shortly after as the observer is almost finished making it's way to your natural. And then, the most blatant, when you directly click on top of a stasis ward with your army, you then go back to said stasis ward (11:17-11:30) and click above the stasis ward to not walk into it, and thenthe third time, move your screen back to the stasis ward selecting your command centers to scan it but you do not have enough energy, and finally you even attempt to path around it. Please try and explain how you are able to see cloaked units through the fog of war. | ||
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WhySoSeriOus_IT
3 Posts
Just my 2 Minerals. | ||
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loch
Australia7 Posts
On April 12 2015 22:24 WhySoSeriOus_IT wrote: Sorry for the stupid question, but someone know if is possibile to cheat while streaming? Because at this point it's pretty usless to talk about WinterSC reaction or "strange" movements in game, if there is no way to cheat while streaming. Just my 2 Minerals. Can't believe I'm getting involved here, but yes you can use overlays and other streaming elements to disguise map hacking. EDIT: Might I just add, Avilo: you are probably tarnishing your own reputation more than you are Winter's. Unless you eventually succeed and provide undeniable evidence (and even so, the damage is pretty much already done) you are going to be recognized more as a conspiracy theorist and a paranoid psychotic instead of a likable streamer. With that being said, keep doing whatever the fuck you want buddy. Best of luck to whichever party is being honest. | ||
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torav
Italy23 Posts
On April 12 2015 22:51 loch wrote: Can't believe I'm getting involved here, but yes you can use overlays and other streaming elements to disguise map hacking. Or have multiple monitors, which I think is the matter of the debate here. | ||
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monscream
Italy24 Posts
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WinterStarcraft
United States109 Posts
On April 12 2015 21:41 avilo wrote: You ignored all of this because of course it is unexplainable by you: "Strongest Evidence: The three very blatant instances in the same game of winter following/locating cloaked units through the fog of war at: 6:04-6:07 - marine going for cloaked observer 6:28 - winter starts clicking to observer that's in fog of war 11:17- 11:30 - winter seems to know the exact location of a stasis ward, clicks his units to it, later orders them to stop just before the stasis ward, then again later momentarily attempts to path around the stasis ward" Scouting for a third is indeed not maphack evidence. But you looking for a cloaked unit in the fog of war that you do not know exists with your marine is maphack evidence. You do it a second time shortly after as the observer is almost finished making it's way to your natural. And then, the most blatant, when you directly click on top of a stasis ward with your army, you then go back to said stasis ward (11:17-11:30) and click above the stasis ward to not walk into it, and thenthe third time, move your screen back to the stasis ward selecting your command centers to scan it but you do not have enough energy, and finally you even attempt to path around it. Please try and explain how you are able to see cloaked units through the fog of war. I did not ignore it. There is a difference between ignorance by choice and ignorance by the fact it is completely false. I proved the latter. EDIT: To quote since you obviously did not read. MY FIRST MARINE RALLIED TO THE OBSERVER IS RALLIED BEFORE THE OBSERVER IS MADE. PAST THAT POINT THE RALLY POINT IS NOT CHANGED. This invalidates your first point. Let me spell it out even harder because that did not come across I'm sure. I click my marine to go scout a 3rd base (I know this is a map hack level strategy for those facing avilo) BEFORE the observer is completed, and even when the obs is completed the robo is rallied to the natural of huk, not where my marine is. This means the marine was rallied BEFORE there was any possible indication that the observer was going in any direction. That is some professional tier hacks. Some might even call it game sense. Second. I CLICK MY ARMY OUTSIDE OF MY BASE. The observer is outside of my natural. The fact you think this is uncommon is painful at the very least and invalidates point two. Three. I NEVER CLICK EVEN ON THE STASIS WARD NOR HAVE IT IN MY VISION. Finally a large reason why I lose the game is because of a stasis ward I did not realize was there. Also conveniently ignored in your analysis. Finally. Why is it that huk provided this replay, if you had gone over my replays you would have found I provided this, and literally of hundreds of replays like this hours before it. I wish I didn't have to respond to this but honestly I am appalled at the fact anyone can find this remotely convincing. | ||
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Hypertension
United States802 Posts
On April 12 2015 22:51 loch wrote: Can't believe I'm getting involved here, but yes you can use overlays and other streaming elements to disguise map hacking. EDIT: Might I just add, Avilo: you are probably tarnishing your own reputation more than you are Winter's. Unless you eventually succeed and provide undeniable evidence (and even so, the damage is pretty much already done) you are going to be recognized more as a conspiracy theorist and a paranoid psychotic instead of a likable streamer. With that being said, keep doing whatever the fuck you want buddy. Best of luck to whichever party is being honest. Being a conspiracy theorist and a paranoid psychotic is what makes Avilo a likable streamer. | ||
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wilfriet
3 Posts
On April 12 2015 20:20 ProTech wrote: If any of you actually spend the time to watch this replay, and the analysis ( which most people don't because they enjoy drama more than facts ) you would know that the things that avilo is pointing out are VERY unlikely to EVER happen in a game of SC2. I did watch both of them, and all the things he's pointing out are complete rubish lol | ||
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Order
Lithuania231 Posts
On April 12 2015 05:52 avilo wrote: Do you think i care what you think at all? No i do not. <...> Lol nice attitude, if you don't care what we think, why should we care about what you post on here? This whole thing is the best example of the "boy who cried wolf" scenario in action. | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
I miss those days. | ||
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