EPTThat said, some of these are quite shady but I think we're going to need a bigger sample of suspicious games
GM / Master map hacker and general hacking and cheating th…
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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody. Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
That said, some of these are quite shady but I think we're going to need a bigger sample of suspicious games | ||
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v_lm
France202 Posts
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torav
Italy23 Posts
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jaf
Italy9 Posts
but i hope winter is not maphacking seriously viewbot+fake dog+massive bm and trolling gold on stream... i dont want to see maphacker and cheater added to winter pedigree | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On April 13 2015 03:13 ROOTFayth wrote: I think we need people less biased than ProTech or Avilo to comment on it given that they have been trying really hard to succeed in the streaming scene and winter cheated his way in That said, some of these are quite shady but I think we're going to need a bigger sample of suspicious games Stick to evidence please (aka not going to comment on personalities/streaming/etc). If more people want to review it that is ideal. I hope that the people that do choose to will examine it frame by frame as I have, screen movement by screen movement to see where winter's camera is, especially the instances that i have highlighted (in both games) where he is following cloaked units through the fog of war and clicking towards them and reacting to them. | ||
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ProTech
United States543 Posts
On April 13 2015 03:13 ROOTFayth wrote: I think we need people less biased than ProTech or Avilo to comment on it given that they have been trying really hard to succeed in the streaming scene and winter cheated his way in That said, some of these are quite shady but I think we're going to need a bigger sample of suspicious games what the hell? why in the world would trying to succeed in the streaming scene and winter cheating his way in have anything to do with this? i saw a player accusing another player of cheating i looked over the material i decided to add my input end of story | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
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Mongoose
United Kingdom190 Posts
On April 13 2015 03:03 ProTech wrote: lol.... the first replay avilo presented is clear cut evidence. using the minimap to set up a hallucinated phx that kisses a random observer combined with clicking damn near 1 pixel away from the obs @ his third, these two EXTREMELY unlikely things to occur in a game of SC2. The 2nd thing you mentioned, clicking near 1 pixel away from the obs WAS a coincidence, I watched it from winter's pov in slow motion, and he was spamming right click WHILE scrolling up to his third (i.e. mouse at the top right position of his screen) and his last right click happened to be next to the observer. He was manually issuing all of these commands. He could have been clicking towards dots on his minimap though - but it couldn't have been a script moving for him. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
then again with the whole viewbot scandal it's going to be hard for anyone to be objective about winter | ||
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ProTech
United States543 Posts
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
On April 13 2015 03:47 ROOTFayth wrote: well ProTech since I don't want to skim through this 468 pages thread, could you point out where else you posted, because if Winter is the only one then I don't know what is is except a bias, it obviously doesn't mean your opinion is completely invalid... just less objective then again with the whole viewbot scandal it's going to be hard for anyone to be objective about winter Because someone does not provide input for another hack report does not make them bias towards the one they did provide input for. That perspective in itself is bias against ProTech and Avilo, if you sincerely wanted to be objective and view other peoples opinions, then perhaps you would have taken the time to read through atleast some of the 468 pages here and viewed other peoples opinions rather then discrediting theirs. We are reviewing Winter here, not ProTech's post history, lets stick to the topic please. | ||
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ProTech
United States543 Posts
On April 13 2015 03:45 Mongoose wrote: The 2nd thing you mentioned, clicking near 1 pixel away from the obs WAS a coincidence, I watched it from winter's pov in slow motion, and he was spamming right click WHILE scrolling up to his third (i.e. mouse at the top right position of his screen) and his last right click happened to be next to the observer. He was manually issuing all of these commands. He could have been clicking towards dots on his minimap though - but it couldn't have been a script moving for him. and yet i find it extremely difficult to believe that a player could cut attack paths blindly and have their indicator show up so closely to their opponents on THREE or more different occasions using the minimap. we're talking about a precise click USING THE MINIMAP. | ||
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JustinDunk1n
7 Posts
On April 13 2015 04:02 ProTech wrote: and yet i find it extremely difficult to believe that a player could cut attack paths blindly and have their indicator show up so closely to their opponents on THREE or more different occasions using the minimap. we're talking about a precise click USING THE MINIMAP. And not only was it once he used the "minimap" precisely like this. He did it on multiple occasions. I have watched Starcraft replays, vods, etc for well over a decade. I have seen enough "fishy" situations to know when it is more likely that a situation is just a coincidence. This, to me, did not seem like a coincidence. I feel like many of the people on both sides of this situation need to really take a step back and just look at the facts. Like Avilo has said over and over we need to analyze the data without bias. Winter appears extremely fishy in both matches after analyzing the data. Is he 100% guilty? I am not certain. A bit more games with similar outcomes would be needed. You know for sure now when he plays he will not be using this "program" again. So maybe waiting for more evidence before posting would have been wise. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13431 Posts
If this was pure build order blind countering and looking through FoW, or changing builds to react to proxies etc. So, more replays before fully throwing someone under the bus. This is starting to push into conspiracy theory levels of "proof" that reminds me of the Future hunt (with far far fewer replays). | ||
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sc2chronic
United States777 Posts
winter - you were never required to respond to this; but since you did- i think you should be giving more complete information/details in your counterpoints. 3 possible outcomes to this: 1) avilo is wrong and will probably never be listened to anyone ever again regarding maphack accusations 2) someone finds 100% undeniable proof that winter is indeed hacking 3) people will continue to debate and it will eventually be forgotten about, just like the "sons of starcraft"/"match fix scandal article by richard lewis"/"every-other-thing-blizzard-doesnt-acknowledge".. etc. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On April 13 2015 04:35 sc2chronic wrote: avilo - you have to admit that you do in fact accuse many people as hackers/cheaters, more so than the average player. denying that is an exercise in futility, and it will not help your case. winter - you were never required to respond to this; but since you did- i think you should be giving more complete information/details in your counterpoints. 3 possible outcomes to this: 1) avilo is wrong and will probably never be listened to anyone ever again regarding maphack accusations 2) someone finds 100% undeniable proof that winter is indeed hacking 3) people will continue to debate and it will eventually be forgotten about, just like the "sons of starcraft"/"match fix scandal article by richard lewis"/"every-other-thing-blizzard-doesnt-acknowledge".. etc. None of this has anything to do with the evidence presented. | ||
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
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Cokefreak
Finland8096 Posts
On April 13 2015 04:39 avilo wrote: None of this has anything to do with the evidence presented. Nice dodge. | ||
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ProTech
United States543 Posts
On April 13 2015 04:39 JacobShock wrote: I haven't followed this Winter hacking issue from the begnning so excuse my ignorance, but isnt Winter pretty much streaming all his games? ImbaTosS was the first to show us that you can stream / hack same time. | ||
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GoShox
United States1850 Posts
On April 13 2015 04:39 JacobShock wrote: I haven't followed this Winter hacking issue from the begnning so excuse my ignorance, but isnt Winter pretty much streaming all his games? Yes, but it's also possible to hide hacks while streaming, so this isn't too relevant. | ||
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