Official Real Talk Thread of Realness - Page 71

On August 22 2012 06:43 BeanerBurrito wrote:


For me personally if i wanted to try to play league of legends for the purpose of becoming competitive, i would not be able to play or learn or even be on the same playing field as every other player simply because i haven't paid for the champions or grinded out the levels and runes. That is not a way to create a competitive game. In dota whether it is your first time playing a hero or your 1000th time playing a hero the hero has the exact same skills and stats regardless.

On August 22 2012 17:49 DonKey_ wrote:
.... I really feel the need to make clear of the fact that the ONLY thing in league of legends that is NOT puchaseable with IP( the points you earn from PLAYING LoL; not PAYING) is cosmetic skins. It's very disheartening seeing the disinformation in this thread presenting LoL as a pay to win game.

Secondly on the point that people feel LoL isn't complex enough which in turn hurts it, I would argue the opposite I think LoL will be successful because it is less complex than Dota2 or other competitors. If CoD has shown us anything it's that easy to pick up games are faaaaar more popular with the mainstream audience, and as far as I am aware having the mainstream audience is the single greatest requirement for a game to grow. I think looking at the Dota/Moba, whatever you want call it, genre everyone can agree LoL is the most aproachable title. Which brings to wonder why people are arguing for complexity.

I wish also if you are going to respond to me with old LoL is "flipping coins in a cup" arguement that you stop to think about how maybe Dota is flipping coins in a cup with a higher skill cap. Both games core mechanics are the same with differences in the details so to call one "flipping coins in cup" is to call both "flipping coins in a cup" the key difference between the two is one cup is either farther away or smaller etc. It's very important to remeber as well you are playing against the "cup", but against the people competing agaisnt you.

On August 22 2012 17:49 DonKey_ wrote:
.... I really feel the need to make clear of the fact that the ONLY thing in league of legends that is NOT puchaseable with IP( the points you earn from PLAYING LoL; not PAYING) is cosmetic skins. It's very disheartening seeing the disinformation in this thread presenting LoL as a pay to win game.

Secondly on the point that people feel LoL isn't complex enough which in turn hurts it, I would argue the opposite I think LoL will be successful because it is less complex than Dota2 or other competitors. If CoD has shown us anything it's that easy to pick up games are faaaaar more popular with the mainstream audience, and as far as I am aware having the mainstream audience is the single greatest requirement for a game to grow. I think looking at the Dota/Moba, whatever you want call it, genre everyone can agree LoL is the most aproachable title. Which brings to wonder why people are arguing for complexity.

I wish also if you are going to respond to me with old LoL is "flipping coins in a cup" arguement that you stop to think about how maybe Dota is flipping coins in a cup with a higher skill cap. Both games core mechanics are the same with differences in the details so to call one "flipping coins in cup" is to call both "flipping coins in a cup" the key difference between the two is one cup is either farther away or smaller etc.

On August 22 2012 18:06 Bleak wrote:


Two things:

1) Being popular means nothing. If anything, things that go mainstream start to go sour very fast. Games that become popular become worse. Movie franchises that get popular go bad (Matrix is a good example, great movie, got popular, become and empty movie with great action scenes and shiny visuals) CoD 4 MW was a great game, but then it got popular and now it's a shitty franchise that sells a lot but it's just an empty game with shiny graphics and same reskinned guns/UI/story. Being popular is not an indicator for anything. Financial success is another story but it has nothing to do with the gameplay itself being actually good.

2) LoL is too forgiving. Too forgiving. It's much easier to reach the skillcap, map is smaller, you don't lose gold when you die, you can spam skills without worrying about mana, you cannot deny, turrets are way too strong so after a successful gank it's harder to push etc. the list just goes on. I could understand if LoL was the only game in the genre and in that way it could be a competitively successful game. However, when there's DoTA around, a game which has evolved through years of community feedback, testing and development; which is a lot more competitive in nature, harder to master and full of subtleties and interesting game mechanics, it is ridiculous to say LoL and DoTA are flipping the same coins in a cup but farther or closer in distance. If anything, if DOTA is say, tennis, LoL to DOTA is something like playing tennis but without a penalty for putting the ball into net or without the danger of double faults while serving.

And COD is an esport?

On August 22 2012 18:18 DonKey_ wrote:


1) Being popular means nothing? Apparently You haven't noticed being popular is what get you more seats at events like IEM and MLG, It's what gets higher stream numbers, and more revenue pumped into your game. Now if what you want is to be like the FGC community keep you scene small and pure that's fine, but you will never get kind of recognition or money in your game that esports can.

2) Right you are making the counter arguement to what I am saying which is if you want a smaller scene that has less forgiving rules you run out the maistream. Hell you could play baseball while doing a handstand and that would make the game more fun for a minority I guess, but it's going to run off the majority who find it to difficult. Striking a balance between difficulty and forgiving rules is for more important than having a complex game.

On August 22 2012 18:24 Bleak wrote:


1) It might get the seats, but this doesn't change the fact that it's still a worse game (in terms of being a competitive game) than DOTA.

2) Superb analogy, playing baseball while doing a handstand. Please take another look at my tennis analogy to see where Dota-LoL stands in terms of differences. A complex game is more suited to being a competitive game because there is more ways to let players show their skill and mastery. The simple and forgiving game might be fun to play with friends and play casually, but that's what it is, it would be a casual game, not a competitive game. Like Tobi said, it's not designed for that.

Let's say you removed double faults from tennis, you could serve as much as you wanted and there would be no penalty for balls that go out or stay at the net. That would remove the risk factor from serves. Even best players do not put balls 100% into the box, it's more like 70%-75%. That means roughly 3 out of 10 serves go out or stay at the net. When that happens it's either a double fault and your opponent wins the point, or you have to serve a second time which is a lot more risky and could lead to a double fault. That forces the players to perfect their serves as much as possible which creates the game dynamic of tennis where holding into your serve games is crucial because it's the serve game that determines the winner most of the time. If you removed that, the game wouldn't be near as competitive as it is today. It's things like that which makes LoL worse than DOTA. For example, denying. Denying is crucial for lane control. If you deny well with your lane partner in a side lane, you can sometimes get a 2 level advantage over the opposite side. That's huge, however you can deny only so much and you also have to go for last hits, not to mention your opponent can deny your hits too.

On August 22 2012 18:42 Noocta wrote:
I really like Tobi's opinion about the massive money injection esport is currently seeing.
It's great but but it's bad at the same time.

On August 22 2012 16:08 itmeJP wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELPnjvhQMRs

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