On August 25 2012 22:22 Zhou wrote: The amount of hate for League of Legends is pretty stupid, and vice versa. Honestly, even if LoL is more simple than dota2, I don't think people have the right to say its not worth it because the game isn't complex enough. The same could go for chess technically. The complexity part of it comes down to the minds of the players. We could argue that the progamers of LoL haven't done anything super creative out of League itself; whether its the limitations of the game, or themselves but it's clear there is a community that stands by LoL. While I don't agree with some of the things Riot does to make League of Legends well known, it isn't a secret that they did so well outside of the eSports scene with their business model.
I disagree with Tobi saying that League has no place in eSports. I will agree that it is coming up too fast and might be about money. Every game, or anything competitive for that matter will earn its spot by the people who love to do what they do in their set of interests.
As far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong), chess is highly complex and Vladimir Kramnik was quoted as saying "Chess is an infinitely complex game, which one can play in infinitely numerous and varied ways." From what I understand it is not "infinitely" complex, but in all practical terms it is, until we build some super computer in the year 4462 or something because the amount of information needed to be stored is beyond the 10^100 range (googol).
Chess, when compared to the likes of LoL, SC, SC2, Dota, whatever is actually extremely simple. Yes, there are a huge number of possibile outcomes, but I don't even think there is a number fathomable to the number of outcomes any of the aforementioned games can produce. For every move you can make in chess, there are 100x that amount of moves to be made in one of the other games every second of play.
While I obviously don't mean to belittle chess with this statement. It is definitely a complex game, but compared with these types of games it really isn't. As an example, think about several minutes into a game of sc2. You've got say 20 workers, any one of those workers can be issued a new command. Simultaneously, any one of your new buildings can be chosen to create a unit or upgrade. Every current army unit can be chosen to be moved to any of the ten thousand locations on the map they can fit... and all of this is done with incomplete information every second of every game.
So you really think chess is easier? Really? How come no Sc players tried to get Chess Grandmaster then ? "Because its boring" - Yeah I figured.
You really have no clue, sorry.
Of course chess is easier. It is strategically far less complex and the entire concept of mechanics doesn't even play into it. As a game, SC2 is signifcantly harder.
What makes it harder for players to get into chess, is that it has hundreds of years of people dedicating time to it, figuring out openings and responses, gambits and defences, so people are just significantly better at it than they will ever be at SC2.
Hey JP not sure if your write your own questions or take some from this thread, but just in case you are, could you possibly ask Artosis the following things if you have time?
1. If we can expect to see a comeback of the Artosis hour? It was seriously the most informative and helpful thing I ever watched in terms of helping me improve as a player.
2. If Artosis ever thinks he will start playing professionally again?
3. If he's ever had a moment with Tasteless where they got mad (offended?) at each other. (I wouldn't be able to believe it!)
My life is so much like Artosis' early life. Although I recently realised that my obsession for SC2 won't get me anywhere, so I decided to quit and try my best to become a Chemical Engineer.
Something went badly wrong with Dan's computer, and he has a meeting to go to so by the time it's fixed he'll probably have to go anyway, I assume. They've ended it for tonight and will continue it another day.
On September 01 2012 10:47 Picklebread wrote: I already know that the Artosis real talk is going to be the best.
Just google for "Korean woman", they're pretty much indistiguishable from each other.
I'm only jesting, I hope for his sake he keeps as much of his family privat as possible, the SC2-community can be so nasty from time to time. I'm also looking forward to this episode, Artosis has always been my favourite caster and person in SC2.
On August 25 2012 22:22 Zhou wrote: The amount of hate for League of Legends is pretty stupid, and vice versa. Honestly, even if LoL is more simple than dota2, I don't think people have the right to say its not worth it because the game isn't complex enough. The same could go for chess technically. The complexity part of it comes down to the minds of the players. We could argue that the progamers of LoL haven't done anything super creative out of League itself; whether its the limitations of the game, or themselves but it's clear there is a community that stands by LoL. While I don't agree with some of the things Riot does to make League of Legends well known, it isn't a secret that they did so well outside of the eSports scene with their business model.
I disagree with Tobi saying that League has no place in eSports. I will agree that it is coming up too fast and might be about money. Every game, or anything competitive for that matter will earn its spot by the people who love to do what they do in their set of interests.
As far as I know (and correct me if I'm wrong), chess is highly complex and Vladimir Kramnik was quoted as saying "Chess is an infinitely complex game, which one can play in infinitely numerous and varied ways." From what I understand it is not "infinitely" complex, but in all practical terms it is, until we build some super computer in the year 4462 or something because the amount of information needed to be stored is beyond the 10^100 range (googol).
Chess, when compared to the likes of LoL, SC, SC2, Dota, whatever is actually extremely simple. Yes, there are a huge number of possibile outcomes, but I don't even think there is a number fathomable to the number of outcomes any of the aforementioned games can produce. For every move you can make in chess, there are 100x that amount of moves to be made in one of the other games every second of play.
While I obviously don't mean to belittle chess with this statement. It is definitely a complex game, but compared with these types of games it really isn't. As an example, think about several minutes into a game of sc2. You've got say 20 workers, any one of those workers can be issued a new command. Simultaneously, any one of your new buildings can be chosen to create a unit or upgrade. Every current army unit can be chosen to be moved to any of the ten thousand locations on the map they can fit... and all of this is done with incomplete information every second of every game.
So you really think chess is easier? Really? How come no Sc players tried to get Chess Grandmaster then ? "Because its boring" - Yeah I figured.
You really have no clue, sorry.
Of course chess is easier. It is strategically far less complex and the entire concept of mechanics doesn't even play into it. As a game, SC2 is signifcantly harder.
What makes it harder for players to get into chess, is that it has hundreds of years of people dedicating time to it, figuring out openings and responses, gambits and defences, so people are just significantly better at it than they will ever be at SC2.
Well, how difficult chess is depends on how good your opponent is and how good you are... If your playing against Viswanathan Anand then it's going to be as hard as hell.
And Same goes for SC2. If I were to play against a bronze leaguer, then its easy, but if you place me against MKP then Its harder...
EPT
