Match Making Rating Tool - Page 176

korona

1098 Posts

January 02 2014 21:55 GMT

#3501

On January 03 2014 05:39 nQL wrote:
What does the option "Enable Finetuner" in the tab "Data" do? It doesn't seem to effect previously calculated MRR ...

Every 'good game' (game from which MMR can be calculated) has a certain error margin, which is viewable in 'Log' > 'Analyse Log'. If fine-tuner is enabled, the client fine-tunes the results inside the error margins. In the bottom of the 'Analyse Log' it tells which values were fine-tuned and how much. If fine-tuner is enabled it also suggest potential incorrect values. For example if there is a 'spike' caused by a data error, it notices that the result does not fit inside the error margins and suggests that something could be wrong regarding that result. Fine-tuner is enabled by default.

On the other hand the 'auto-correct' setting that is available from the bottom toolbar filters out these potential 'bad values' detected by the fine-tuner (ignores the calculated values for those 'good games' and considers them as estimate games). I would leave 'auto-correct' feature disabled most of the time (makes it easier for you to detect if there is potential incorrect value). 'Auto-correct' feature is disabled by default.

--
Edit: As this message started 'new page' lets highlight an older post that is not related to the fine-tuner:

2014-01-02: Manual update of Bnet DB file (version 17.0) is required after season change
Read more from: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20519319

NiteshadeSC2

Canada98 Posts

January 03 2014 11:10 GMT

#3502

I updated the database as instructed in your previous post:

This was done successfully:
+ Show Spoiler +

05:23:44 MMR-Stats 10.0
05:23:44 --------INIT START--------
05:23:44 OK Encoding: OK
05:23:44 Pre-Trigger thread: Waiting Post-Trigger lock to open
05:23:44 OK Sc2Gears auto-save is enabled.
05:23:44 Loading HOTS DB file...
05:23:44 OK Loading DB version 17.0 done
05:23:46 UPDATE: New DB avalable!
05:23:46 Downloading new DB File...
05:23:46 Loading legacy DB file...
05:23:46 ERROR: LOAD legacy DB lenght check failed
05:23:46 FATALERROR Datahandler: failed to download new Database file
05:23:46 Loading HOTS DB file...
05:23:46 OK Loading DB version 17.0 done

But after a couple of games, this is what I am getting.
+ Show Spoiler +

05:53:18 --------------------------
05:53:18 Game Start detected
05:53:18 Searching memory for character profiles for game HotS
05:53:18 Reading Memory ...OK
05:53:18 OK Found Memory-Profile in Active-Profiles!
05:53:58 Pre-trigger: Reading web profiles
05:54:01 FATALERROR WEBGRABBER Wrong Season! DB file might be old! READ: 16 EXPECTED: 17. Player: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1710737/1/Niteshade/
05:54:01 Webgrabber: Player false
05:54:05 FATALERROR WEBGRABBER Wrong Season! DB file might be old! READ: 16 EXPECTED: 17. Player: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/4941153/1/LUCK/
05:54:05 Webgrabber: Opponent false
05:54:05 Pre-trigger: Done reading web profiles
05:54:05 Pre-Trigger done
06:06:30 Post-trigger: Start
06:07:10 Post-trigger: Reading web profiles
06:07:13 FATALERROR WEBGRABBER Wrong Season! DB file might be old! READ: 16 EXPECTED: 17. Player: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1710737/1/Niteshade/
06:07:13 Webgrabber: Player false
06:07:16 FATALERROR WEBGRABBER Wrong Season! DB file might be old! READ: 16 EXPECTED: 17. Player: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/4941153/1/LUCK/
06:07:16 Webgrabber: Opponent false
06:07:16 Post-trigger: Done reading web profiles
06:07:16 Bonus calc (Niteshade diam-): max end: 807, max fetch: 807
06:07:16 Bonus calc (LUCK diam-): max end: 807, max fetch: 807
06:07:16 Calculating adjusted points for the players (either Alg. A or B needs to succceed for certain player)
06:07:16 Adjusted calculator ERROR: Invalid player data: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1710737/1/Niteshade/
06:07:16 Adjusted calculator ERROR: Invalid player data: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/4941153/1/LUCK/
06:07:16 ERROR LASTCHECK : Both players invalid
06:07:16 Gamecheck: false
06:07:16 ERROR Game is set to BAD because of DB lock
06:07:16 Common reasons: ladder lock period, web profiles not updated to new season
06:07:16 Visit TL thread for more information!
06:07:16 POST-Trigger done
06:07:16 Data quality needs to be 100% to be able to calculate MMR
06:07:16 Data quality for calculating Player's MMR: 0%
06:07:16 Data quality for calculating Opponent's MMR: 0%
06:07:18 OK Uploader: game uploaded
06:07:18 Ladder Game Done!
06:07:18 --------------------------

Suggestions? Something I am doing wrong?

Best, Nites

leopardb

Germany92 Posts

January 03 2014 11:17 GMT

#3503

On January 03 2014 20:10 NiteshadeSC2 wrote:

Suggestions? Something I am doing wrong?

Best, Nites

That's because, as usual, the battle.net profiles have not been updated yet and reflect the old season, so when the plugin checks, he finds data from the last season, hence 16, not 17 as it should be :/

EDIT: well the profiles seem to now update correctly on the server, and i still receive "ERROR Game is set to BAD because of DB lock" TT

LOG FILE:
+ Show Spoiler +

15:06:07 MMR-Stats 10.0
15:06:07 --------INIT START--------
15:06:07 OK File-Encoding UTF-8
15:06:07 OK Sc2Gears auto-save is enabled.
15:06:07 Loading HOTS DB file...
15:06:07 OK Loading DB version 17.0 done
15:06:09 UPDATE: New DB avalable!
15:06:09 Downloading new DB File...
15:06:09 Loading legacy DB file...
15:06:09 ERROR: LOAD legacy DB lenght check failed
15:06:09 FATALERROR Datahandler: failed to download new Database file
15:06:09 Loading HOTS DB file...
15:06:09 OK Loading DB version 17.0 done
15:06:09 Loading character profiles:
15:06:09 Profile: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2514216/1/leopardb/
15:06:09 Profile: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/4590209/1/leopardb/
15:06:09 Profile: http://kr.battle.net/sc2/ko/profile/4287947/1/leopardb/
15:06:09 OK Settings loaded!
15:06:09 OK Gamedata: 342 Games loaded.
15:06:09 Loading Archive...
15:06:09 OK Gamedata: 787 Games loaded.
15:06:09 Memory scanner is enabled
15:06:09 OK Triggers ready!
15:06:11 UPDATE: Found new program version!
15:06:11 --------INIT END--------
15:14:08 --------------------------
15:14:08 Game Start detected
15:14:08 Searching memory for character profiles for game HotS
15:14:08 Reading Memory ...OK
15:14:08 Ramscanner: name1 : leopardb
15:14:08 Ramscanner: id1 : 1-2514216
15:14:08 Ramscanner: name2 : Duxxxl
15:14:08 Ramscanner: id2 : 1-330610
15:14:08 OK Found Memory-Profile in Active-Profiles!
15:14:48 Pre-trigger: Reading web profiles
15:14:50 Webgrabber: Player false
15:14:54 Webgrabber: Opponent true
15:14:54 Pre-trigger: Done reading web profiles
15:14:54 Pre-Trigger: player 1:
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2514216/1/leopardb/
15:14:54 Pre-Trigger: player 2:
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/330610/1/Duxxxl/
15:14:54 Pre-Trigger done
15:32:58 Post-trigger: Start
15:33:38 Post-trigger: Reading web profiles
15:33:40 Webgrabber: Player false
15:33:42 Webgrabber: Opponent false
15:33:42 Post-trigger: Done reading web profiles
15:33:42 Bonus calc (leopardb master+): max end: 1404, max fetch: 1404
15:33:42 Bonus calc (leopardb diam-): max end: 814, max fetch: 814
15:33:42 Calculating adjusted points for the players (either Alg. A or B needs to succceed for certain player)
15:33:42 Adjusted calculator ERROR: Invalid player data: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2514216/1/leopardb/
15:33:42 Adjusted calculator ERROR: Invalid player data: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/330610/1/Duxxxl/
15:33:42 ERROR LASTCHECK : Both players invalid
15:33:42 Gamecheck: false
15:33:42 GAME:
HotS
15:33:42 PREPLAYER 1:
Data: false
Reading: false
Adjusted: false
Dmmr: false
id: 1-2514216
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2514216/1/leopardb/
game: HotS
server: EU
league: error
division_name: error
Main race: e
Game race: unkown
gamedate: error
mapname: error
totalbonuspool: 814
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999

15:33:42 PREPLAYER 2:
Data: true
Reading: true
Adjusted: false
Dmmr: false
id: 1-330610
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/330610/1/Duxxxl/
game: HotS
server: EU
league: silver
division_name: medic mars
Main race: p
Game race: unkown
gamedate: 3/1/2014
mapname: Alterzim Stronghold TE
totalbonuspool: 814
Wins: 3
Looses: 1
points: 42
bonus: 0
change_points: 23
adjusted_points: -9999

15:33:42 POSTPLAYER 1:
Data: false
Reading: false
Adjusted: false
Dmmr: false
id: 1-2514216
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2514216/1/leopardb/
game: HotS
server: EU
league: error
division_name: error
Main race: e
Game race: r
gamedate: error
mapname: error
totalbonuspool: 814
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999

15:33:42 POSTPLAYER 2:
Data: false
Reading: false
Adjusted: false
Dmmr: false
id: 1-330610
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/330610/1/Duxxxl/
game: HotS
server: EU
league: error
division_name: error
Main race: e
Game race: p
gamedate: error
mapname: error
totalbonuspool: 814
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999

15:33:42 Dataset: (GAME: HotS)
--- GAMESTART ---
TIME: 1388759578876
VALID: false
Result for player 1: W
--- GAMEEND ---

15:33:42 Database is LOCKED for EU server
15:33:42 ERROR Game is set to BAD because of DB lock
15:33:42 Common reasons: ladder lock period, web profiles not updated to new season
15:33:42 Visit TL thread for more information!
15:33:42 POST-Trigger done
15:33:42 Data quality needs to be 100% to be able to calculate MMR
15:33:42 <FONT COLOR="DD0000">Data quality for calculating Player's MMR: 0% </font>
15:33:42 <FONT COLOR="DD0000">Data quality for calculating Opponent's MMR: 0% </font>
15:33:44 OK Uploader: game uploaded
15:33:44 Ladder Game Done!
15:33:44 --------------------------

korona

1098 Posts

January 03 2014 14:55 GMT

#3504

On January 03 2014 20:17 leopardb wrote:

Show nested quote +

Correct. It usually takes time for Blizzard to update the web profiles (sometimes several days).

After the profiles are updated, I will calculate season start times (when bonus pool accumulation started) for each server. When the start times are known for all servers I will publish a new DB file that unlocks the data.

Like you noticed Blizzard updated EU profiles about an hour ago. The matches are still flagged 'bad' as the start times are not known (it cannot calculate correct bonus pool without knowing the start time). These matches are used as estimate matches.

I am calculating the start times for EU, KR, CH and SEA at the moment. This usually takes some hours as I run the calculations several times (it polls the web profiles to see exact times when the profiles update). But NA profiles are still in old season. Even if I will know soon the start times for other servers, I will likely wait until I know the times for NA server as well before publishing a new DB file.

~~Edit: When somebody notices that NA web profiles have been updated to the new season please notify it in this thread.~~

leopardb

Germany92 Posts

January 03 2014 14:58 GMT

#3505

On January 03 2014 23:55 korona wrote:
I am calculating the start times for EU, KR, CH and SEA at the moment. This usually takes some hours as I run the calculations several times (it polls the web profiles to see exact times when the profiles update). But NA profiles are still in old season. Even if I will know soon the start times for other servers, I will likely wait until I know the times for NA server as well before publishing a new DB file.

All right

thank you for your quick answer !

korona

1098 Posts

January 03 2014 15:22 GMT

#3506

MMR tool server up
It seems that access to the server was regained. ~~It still has the old DB file. So do not restart sc2gears or it will fetch the old file (16.1). I will update that soon (may take few hours).~~

Edit 1: DB version 17.0 is now on server too. No manual installation is needed anymore and sc2gears can be restarted (when restarted it checks for new DB file). If you had not updated DB file manually to 17.0, please restart sc2gears to download the new DB file.

Edit 2: NA profiles are still in old season. But as the MMR tool server is now up, I will likely publish new DB file in few hours that will unlock the other servers. Thought the SC2 web api still randomly gives old season data for other servers too

Only some 20 to 30 % times it gives season 17 data. Also Chinese web server is updating very sluggishly (preliminary bonus pool accumalation start times may be incorrect even by 1 minute due to this).

Edit 3: NA web profiles have been updated. Thus I will not publish new DB file yet, but will calculate the NA starting times first. This will take at least few hours.

Edit 4: New DB was released: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20524486

leopardb

Germany92 Posts

January 03 2014 17:34 GMT

#3507

On January 04 2014 00:22 korona wrote:
MMR tool server up
It seems that access to the server was regained. ~~It still has the old DB file. So do not restart sc2gears or it will fetch the old file (16.1). I will update that soon (may take few hours).~~

Edit 1: DB version 17.0 is now on server too. No manual installation is needed anymore and sc2gears can be restarted (when restarted it checks for new DB file). If you had not updated DB file manually to 17.0, please restart sc2gears to download the new DB file.

Edit 2: NA profiles are still in old season. But as the MMR tool server is now up, I will likely publish new DB file in few hours that will unlock the other servers. Thought the SC2 web api still randomly gives old season data for other servers too

Yeah, i do not know if it's somehow related but when i use the filter "season 17" in SC2Gears, it gives me no results, and puts together all replays under season 16... weird...

korona

1098 Posts

January 03 2014 17:46 GMT

#3508

On January 04 2014 02:34 leopardb wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah, i do not know if it's somehow related but when i use the filter "season 17" in SC2Gears, it gives me no results, and puts together all replays under season 16... weird...

The sc2gears filter is separate. The season number is not stored in replay files. The sc2gears uses hardcoded dates for sorting.

This is also why (season number is not stored in replay file) season numbers are tricky regarding the MMR tool. First you need to have an updated DB file (sets correct season number). Then this number is compared to season number fetched from the web profiles / API. If the web profiles / API give old data, then the data is flagged bad for that match. And it does not help that it usually takes time for Blizzard to update the web profiles (at the moment only NA has not been updated). And the web profiles are not always in sync with the API. Also at the moment API randomly gives either S16 or S17 data.

Edit: and now NA web profiles have been updated too. It will take couple hours to calculate the starting time for NA...

NiteshadeSC2

Canada98 Posts

January 03 2014 18:49 GMT

#3509

IT appears as though the NA web profiles are up.
+ Show Spoiler +

13:33:50 --------------------------
13:33:50 Game Start detected
13:33:50 Searching memory for character profiles for game HotS
13:33:50 Reading Memory ...OK
13:33:50 OK Found Memory-Profile in Active-Profiles!
13:34:30 Pre-trigger: Reading web profiles
13:34:31 Webgrabber: Player false
13:34:33 Webgrabber: Opponent false
13:34:33 Pre-trigger: Done reading web profiles
13:34:33 Pre-Trigger done
13:46:38 Post-trigger: Start
13:47:18 Post-trigger: Reading web profiles
13:47:19 Webgrabber: Player false
13:47:22 Webgrabber: Opponent false
13:47:22 Post-trigger: Done reading web profiles
13:47:22 Bonus calc (Niteshade master+): max end: 1400, max fetch: 1400
13:47:22 Bonus calc (Niteshade diam-): max end: 812, max fetch: 812
13:47:22 Bonus calc (xXCAMPERXx master+): max end: 1400, max fetch: 1400
13:47:22 Bonus calc (xXCAMPERXx diam-): max end: 812, max fetch: 812
13:47:22 Calculating adjusted points for the players (either Alg. A or B needs to succceed for certain player)
13:47:22 Adjusted calculator ERROR: Invalid player data: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1710737/1/Niteshade/
13:47:22 Adjusted calculator ERROR: Invalid player data: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1622665/1/xXCAMPERXx/
13:47:22 ERROR LASTCHECK : Both players invalid
13:47:22 Gamecheck: false
13:47:22 ERROR Game is set to BAD because of DB lock
13:47:22 Common reasons: ladder lock period, web profiles not updated to new season
13:47:22 Visit TL thread for more information!
13:47:22 POST-Trigger done
13:47:22 Data quality needs to be 100% to be able to calculate MMR
13:47:22 Data quality for calculating Player's MMR: 0%
13:47:22 Data quality for calculating Opponent's MMR: 0%
13:47:23 OK Uploader: game uploaded
13:47:23 Ladder Game Done!
13:47:23 --------------------------

Still catching a few errors though.

NiteshadeSC2

Canada98 Posts

January 03 2014 20:37 GMT

#3510

Still getting a pile of errors:

15:30:33 Adjusted calculator ERROR: Invalid player data:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1710737/1/Niteshade/
15:30:33 Adjusted calculator ERROR: Invalid player data:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/442213/1/Buddaaaay/
15:30:33 ERROR LASTCHECK : Both players invalid
15:30:33 Gamecheck: false
15:30:33 ERROR Game is set to BAD because of DB lock

MMR-Stats

26 Posts

January 03 2014 20:55 GMT

#3511

2014-01-03: MMR tool server is back online and new Bnet DB file (ver 17.1) update has been published

Please restart sc2gears and the DB file will be automatically updated. This update sets the correct bonus pool accumulation starting times for S17 & 'unlocks' the DB file. This means that it is possible to get 'good games' once again.

Please note that Blizzard's SC2 web API is still randomly giving either S16 or S17 data. If it returns old S16 data, then the tool sets that match 'bad' (it is used as an estimate match). At the moment only roughly 20% of times new S17 data is received. Hopefully Blizzard fixes their SC2 web API soon.

Also Chinese web profiles are updating sluggishly. When calculating the bonus pool accumulation starting time for Chinese server I got results that differed more than a minute. This means it is more than likely that Chinese server players will get data errors (these often result upward spikes regarding MMR calculations), if their match ends just when bonus pool increase tick happens. Hopefully the Chinese web server response/update time improves as season goes on.

Also remember that Blizzard hinted in their recent article that they might change league offsets for season 17 (S1/2014). If offsets were changed, it will require 2 to 3 weeks to collect enough data to be able to calculate them. If there has been larger offset changes then user graphs will become 'erratic'. But it seems that there might not have been any changes.

korona

1098 Posts

January 03 2014 21:04 GMT

#3512

On January 04 2014 05:37 NiteshadeSC2 wrote:
Still getting a pile of errors:

15:30:33 Adjusted calculator ERROR: Invalid player data:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1710737/1/Niteshade/
15:30:33 Adjusted calculator ERROR: Invalid player data:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/442213/1/Buddaaaay/
15:30:33 ERROR LASTCHECK : Both players invalid
15:30:33 Gamecheck: false
15:30:33 ERROR Game is set to BAD because of DB lock

Yes. That was completely normal. As mentioned already earlier the old DB (17.0) had been 'locked'. It automatically set all matches 'bad' as the bonus pool accumulation starting times were unknown.

"... The new DB sets correct season numbers & flags all new matches 'bad'. ":
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20519319

"... The matches are still flagged 'bad' as the start times are not known ...":
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20523186

But a new DB (ver 17.1) was just released that unlocks the data. Matches played after you have updated it are not anymore automatically flagged 'bad'. Please read the description: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20524486

Spirit09

United Kingdom38 Posts

January 04 2014 17:09 GMT

#3513

Just wanted to say thanks for your work Korona, it is appreciated!

On January 04 2014 05:55 MMR-Stats wrote:
Also remember that Blizzard hinted in their recent article that they might change league offsets for season 17 (S1/2014). If offsets were changed, it will require 2 to 3 weeks to collect enough data to be able to calculate them. If there has been larger offset changes then user graphs will become 'erratic'. But it seems that there might not have been any changes.

Guessing no updates to the offsets? After a near 100% win rate in 1v1 (and previously before the deflation diamond) I'm still silver. And my 4v4 dropped from master to diamond despite more than 50% win. Hmm...

Excalibur_Z

United States12235 Posts

January 04 2014 17:14 GMT

#3514

It's possible that offset changes won't take effect until Patch 2.1.

korona

1098 Posts

January 04 2014 22:13 GMT

#3515

On January 05 2014 02:09 Spirit09 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Maybe you faced decay (had more than 2 weeks of inactivity in certain modes)? Read more: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429734

Yes, it is totally a guess that there would be no changes. I have not yet checked data from this season (except followed data quality - thankfully Blizzard has now mostly fixed their web API). With the potential offset changes Blizzard wanted to lower the thresholds so people would rise higher. There has been no news about mass promotions in any forums that I have followed. But there has been masses of similar messages as before (people dropping leagues in placement match due decay and complaining about uneven matchmaking results). Also there are no complaints in this thread either. If there were larger offset changes, the user graphs would become erratic and people would complain.

On January 05 2014 02:14 Excalibur_Z wrote:
It's possible that offset changes won't take effect until Patch 2.1.

Yes it is possible. Then again this would be first mid-season change since May 2011 (unless they postpone the 2.1 to the start of the next season). But I guess these mid-season changes would be more welcomed by the players than the 2011 changes, as these would likely lead to mass promotions.

ScorpionSC

United States21 Posts

January 05 2014 02:23 GMT

#3516

Looks like indeed no offset changes to the plat line. I intentionally had my mmr on the plat/gold line at the end of S16, played one game in S17, lost it, placed in to Gold, played another, won it, back in plat. Looks good at 860. Thanks Korona!

Spirit09

United Kingdom38 Posts

January 05 2014 03:20 GMT

#3517

On January 05 2014 07:13 korona wrote:

Show nested quote +

Maybe you faced decay (had more than 2 weeks of inactivity in certain modes)? Read more: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429734

Well, I'm only 1 data point but I can tell you the following:

1. In 1v1, 3v3 and 4v4 I have faced no decay last seaon (2013, 6) (I made damn sure of it!). I did not play 2v2 at all.
2. Today, or recently, I've played the 1 placement game in 1v1, 3v3 and 4v4 for 2014 season 1.
3. The results are:

1v1 Silver (was Silver last season, have something like 17 wins to 4 losses, Diamond the season before that)
3v3 Gold (was Platinum last season, have 26 wins to 23 losses)
4v4 Diamond (was Master last season, have 65 wins to 62 losses)

So if they have done anything they have made the league offsets higher! I honestly don't understand why I'm demoted, it makes no sense.

IMO Blizzard are killing this game. I've never thought this before but now its so obvious. They are systematically ruining it. They've denied access to real MMR and systematically tried to focus everyone on league and rank (even if we know these are set up only to give the illusion of progress). And now with deflation and everything everyone has lost these badges Blizzard have been so determined to make us look at!

I'm not enjoying grinding out team wins and feeling like I make progress (but of course have no idea because they hide that) only for next season to see I'm demoted. I'm also not enjoying grinding out 1v1 wins at a high rate just to recover the position I previously held.

Off topic, but also contributing to this irritaion I feel like many many players feel is that Blizz constantly adjusts balance in favour of low skill rushing. The game just isn't fun when it take Bronze or Silver level ability to execute all-ins, yet takes Diamond or Master level ability to detect, prepare for and push back those same all-ins. Surely they should be adjusting balance to make all-in or cheese play require more skill to execute, not less.

I spent a lot of time and effort perfecting solid mechanics and skill and now all that progress is taken away by demotions and grinding out hundreds of games against 8/10 rush or all-in play that takes little to no skill to do is disheartening.

I really hope Blizzard reads this thread as they need to do something FAST or I can see more and more players leaving. Very very sad.

SwiftRH

United States105 Posts

January 05 2014 04:30 GMT

#3518

dude stop wining it just gives you something to strive for to get masters again i rather see demotions then people playing 1 game season and getting masters and sitting on it. That kills the game not Blizzard making masters harder to get.

korona

1098 Posts

January 05 2014 05:24 GMT

#3519

On January 05 2014 12:20 Spirit09 wrote:

Show nested quote +

1v1 Silver (was Silver last season, have something like 17 wins to 4 losses, Diamond the season before that)
3v3 Gold (was Platinum last season, have 26 wins to 23 losses)
4v4 Diamond (was Master last season, have 65 wins to 62 losses)

So if they have done anything they have made the league offsets higher! I honestly don't understand why I'm demoted, it makes no sense.

The team games make sense especially if your MMR was in low range of those leagues. There are so few teams with higher league MMR that you might have been playing more against teams that have lower MMR than your team. You lose more by losing those teams than gain by winning them. And there are lots of decayed teams grinding back up.

On January 05 2014 12:20 Spirit09 wrote:
IMO Blizzard are killing this game. I've never thought this before but now its so obvious. They are systematically ruining it. They've denied access to real MMR and systematically tried to focus everyone on league and rank (even if we know these are set up only to give the illusion of progress). And now with deflation and everything everyone has lost these badges Blizzard have been so determined to make us look at!

I'm not enjoying grinding out team wins and feeling like I make progress (but of course have no idea because they hide that) only for next season to see I'm demoted. I'm also not enjoying grinding out 1v1 wins at a high rate just to recover the position I previously held.

Off topic, but also contributing to this irritaion I feel like many many players feel is that Blizz constantly adjusts balance in favour of low skill rushing. The game just isn't fun when it take Bronze or Silver level ability to execute all-ins, yet takes Diamond or Master level ability to detect, prepare for and push back those same all-ins. Surely they should be adjusting balance to make all-in or cheese play require more skill to execute, not less.

I spent a lot of time and effort perfecting solid mechanics and skill and now all that progress is taken away by demotions and grinding out hundreds of games against 8/10 rush or all-in play that takes little to no skill to do is disheartening.

I really hope Blizzard reads this thread as they need to do something FAST or I can see more and more players leaving. Very very sad.

Agreed, I hope they act soon and the changes are reasonable. This is also why I immediately, when I was sure that there was a decay mechanism, opened my mouth in the end of August. In a normal situation I would have prepared more constructed case before making it public, but I though it was urgent. The current situation pretty much matches what I expected was going to happen, if nothing was done (I dared not to mention it back then). Thankfully Excalibur_Z helped by doing research also on his own and summed up the combined results in a nice article. It has been 4 months since end of August and Blizzard still has not acted.

And yes. The current situation has affected my personal laddering experience negatively too. Lately I have just made sure my accounts do not decay (play at least one match per two weeks), as I don't have time or motivation grind the MMR back up if decay would happen. During S15 I tried to push my decayed accounts back to their former MMR ranges and put more time into laddering than I have since 2010 / early 2011. I still was not able to reach my former MMR ranges even if I think I improved a lot during that time.

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On January 05 2014 13:30 SwiftRH wrote:
dude stop wining it just gives you something to strive for to get masters again i rather see demotions then people playing 1 game season and getting masters and sitting on it. That kills the game not Blizzard making masters harder to get.

I would have hoped that you would have had something more constructive to add in your first TL post. Please continue in a more appropriate thread like this, this or this and be less confrontational.

Also Blizzard has not changed the offsets / thresholds since June, if there was no changes for this season (this will be checked in near future). The massive shift in population towards the lowest leagues has happened for other reasons (decay & its indirect effects are likely the main reason, even if there are other reasons too). And not all have time to overcome the max decay (max decay roughly equals 20 straight losses). Even with as high as 60 % win-rate it would take at least 100 matches (~ 60W - 40L).

Spirit09

United Kingdom38 Posts

January 05 2014 05:58 GMT

#3520

On January 05 2014 14:24 korona wrote:
There are so few teams with higher league MMR that you might have been playing more against teams that have lower MMR than your team. You lose more by losing those teams than gain by winning them. And there are lots of decayed teams grinding back up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as long as mmr decay exists (i.e. as long as some significant number of players/teams experience it and than return to the ladder) does this not mean that even players/teams who play regularly will effectively experience a drop in MMR due to playing against others who have experience mmr decay directly? Does mmr not need to be zero sum to prevent this, and decay is not just not zero sum, but is also entirely one sided in that people only decay down, not up?

I'm already imagined that having some proportion of the player base drop mmr over time will result in the entire player base dropping mmr over time due to the fact that we all play against each other (six degrees of separation style etc..). What you say might have happened to me would appear to be this occurring. This would mean Blizz would need to continuously lower league offsets by some proportion related to the number of games in which players experiencing mmr decay play.

For my own account, while the 1v1 has experienced at least 2 periods of max decay I am now easily winning games (17-4 and of those 3 I had to leave rather than 'lost'), in the case of the team games since I won slightly more than I lost, and since the points I lost/recieved were roughly 12 for each game, I assumed my mmr would remain approximately the same, or maybe up a little. This is why demotion seems ... discouraging... and also illogical. I don't think this is what Blizz "imagine" would happen, if you see what I mean? As in if they were describing how the ladder works hypothetically, they would not say they designed it so if you win just over 50% of your games you'll drop a league next season.

Ergo, not working as intended :S

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