Call to Action: Balance Testing (live custom map) - Page 93

On May 05 2012 23:48 teamhozac wrote:


Yeah you just suck, pretty much. If you die to hellion run bys you seriously, need to learn to play. An evo chamber, a spine, and a queen shut down any hellion play, thats it. If you really feel that zerg needs a buff once again, you need to learn to play. Make a roach warren ffs, these constant buffs and nerfs are just stupid. Remember how everyone was whining about the 1/1/1? Guess what? They figured it out, due to bigger maps, player innovation, whatever, it got figured out. YOU DO NOT NEED A BUFF TO DEAL WITH HELLIONS /rant

On May 05 2012 23:48 teamhozac wrote:


Yeah you just suck, pretty much. If you die to hellion run bys you seriously, need to learn to play. An evo chamber, a spine, and a queen shut down any hellion play, thats it. If you really feel that zerg needs a buff once again, you need to learn to play. Make a roach warren ffs, these constant buffs and nerfs are just stupid. Remember how everyone was whining about the 1/1/1? Guess what? They figured it out, due to bigger maps, player innovation, whatever, it got figured out. YOU DO NOT NEED A BUFF TO DEAL WITH HELLIONS /rant

On May 05 2012 23:58 Big J wrote:


Yeah Morrow, did you hear that. Why didn't you just build a queen, a spine and an evo chamber vs Maru. Wait you had that stuff? You even had 3 queens and zerglings and died? I guess you should take lessons by teamhozac, who is clearly a superior player to you.

On May 05 2012 23:58 Big J wrote:


Yeah Morrow, did you hear that. Why didn't you just build a queen, a spine and an evo chamber vs Maru. Wait you had that stuff? You even had 3 queens and zerglings and died? I guess you should take lessons by teamhozac, who is clearly a superior player to you.

On May 05 2012 23:56 teamhozac wrote:


Probably the stupidest post I have ever read. Zerg has larva, Terran does not, Zerg can produce workers 3 times faster than Terran... are we done here?

On May 06 2012 00:11 mrGRAPE wrote:
Well someone's REALLY angry about Zerg buffs. lol

On May 06 2012 00:13 sieksdekciw wrote:

You, sir, are completely wrong.

Zerg on two bases actually can produce 8 times more workers than a terran. Which obviously is balanced and ok.

On May 06 2012 00:16 teamhozac wrote:


Im more angry at the retards actually advocating these buffs, and speaking of pros, fabledintegral and jinro are both in this thread saying how ridiculous these buffs are.... yep.. oh, and... IM GOING TO TIE YOU TO THE RADIATOR AND GRAPE YOU IN THE MOUTH

On May 05 2012 23:56 teamhozac wrote:


Probably the stupidest post I have ever read. Zerg has larva, Terran does not, Zerg can produce workers 3 times faster than Terran... are we done here?

On May 06 2012 00:07 teamhozac wrote:


You are probably the most biased, uninformed retard on this forum. you chose to read what you wanted to read, roaches. Yep thats it, one word: roaches. Those are the solution to hellions, but for some reason zerg feels like they need an easier option to deal wit hhellions, which they dont. So some pro lost ONE game to hellions? oh they must be OP? get a fucking life

On May 06 2012 00:17 teamhozac wrote:


Oh my bad, shoulda done my research, balance at its finest

On May 06 2012 00:13 sieksdekciw wrote:

You, sir, are completely wrong.

Zerg on two bases actually can produce 8 times more workers than a terran. Which obviously is balanced and ok.

On May 06 2012 00:41 Gackt_ wrote:


well that isnt quite true since you dont have the economy at the very start to even produce from all larvas all the time. You basically produce 1-2 units (max 3 if you are effective early game, 2 base whatever.) at the time and the larva is just sitting there stacking up when ur getting into midgame and that will also mean that you are 100% effective with your queens..

Terran on the other hand got mules, which is a serious amount of SCVs and gives them a great economy and outproduce the so called drones. With the mule available you open up a path to take SCVs off mining and build barracks and other Terran related things. When those buildings are done you got as the zerg a way to massproduce that are stacked up (similar to larva but in army supply) and u can start "massproduce" units. If your economy allows you to do it at least..which it should, you got mules right? You never lost miningtime building those barracks etc.

Now the Zerg cant wall in and turtle like the terran does nor can the Zerg skip drones and keep pressure as the Terran can but it can (and in fact are forced to) keep expanding and be one base ahead (otherwise the Zergs economy compared to the Terrans would be ruined).

So the Zerg cant produce workers 3-8 times faster in reality, at least not in the very early game (which actually counts), only if he loses all his drones around midgame the Zerg can do that..and such things do happen.

The fact is that with all these little things together the Terran got 3 advantages, they got the Mules which is instantly alot of "free" SCVs. If they wanna scout similar to a Zerg build a barrack. They get the oppertunity to take of SCVs from mining which makes them able to get massunit production and when they are done building they can return to their duties. And at the very end they can turtle like hell if they just wanted to and keep harassing at the same time thnx to this. And dont forget that not every drone the Zerg makes goes into mining. Some drones are actually made into buildings which means a couple of the Zergs drones in fact disappear and all larvas are not made into drones or attacking units, some of those are made into overlords to even be able to get more drones or attacking units.

Now how is this fair and which race is most effective between T and Z when it comes to production and economy?

On May 06 2012 00:41 Gackt_ wrote:


well that isnt quite true since you dont have the economy at the very start to even produce from all larvas all the time. You basically produce 1-2 units (max 3 if you are effective early game) at the time and the larva is just sitting there stacking up when ur getting into midgame and that will also mean that you are 100% effective with your queens..

Terran on the other hand got mules, which is a serious amount of SCVs and gives them a great economy and outproduce the so called drones. With the mule available you open up a path to take SCVs off mining and build barracks and other Terran related things. When those buildings are done you got as the zerg a way to massproduce that are stacked up (similar to larva but in army supply) and u can start "massproduce" units. If your economy allows you to do it at least..which it should, you got mules right? You never lost miningtime building those barracks etc.

Now the Zerg cant wall in and turtle like the terran does nor can the Zerg skip drones and keep pressure as the Terran can but it can (and in fact are forced to) keep expanding and be one base ahead (otherwise the Zergs economy compared to the Terrans would be ruined).

So the Zerg cant produce workers 3-8 times faster in reality, at least not in the very early game (which actually counts), only if he loses all his drones around midgame the Zerg can do that..and such things do happen.

The fact is that with all these little things together the Terran got 3 advantages, they got the Mules which is instantly alot of "free" SCVs. If they wanna scout similar to a Zerg build a barrack. They get the oppertunity to take of SCVs from mining which makes them able to get massunit production and when they are done building they can return to their duties. And at the very end they can turtle like hell if they just wanted to and keep harassing at the same time thnx to this. And dont forget that not every drone the Zerg makes goes into mining. Some drones are actually made into buildings which means a couple of the Zergs drones in fact disappear and all larvas are not made into drones or attacking units, some of those are made into overlords to even be able to get more drones or attacking units.

Now how is this fair and which race is most effective between T and Z when it comes to production and economy?

On May 06 2012 00:13 sieksdekciw wrote:

You, sir, are completely wrong.

Zerg on two bases actually can produce 8 times more workers than a terran. Which obviously is balanced and ok.

On May 06 2012 00:41 Gackt_ wrote:

Now how is this fair and which race is most effective between T and Z when it comes to production and economy?

On May 06 2012 00:39 Big J wrote:


Hey, nice that for once I get a reply from you, as you have yet chosen to avoid any form of discussion if I replied to one of your wrong comments.
And I don't choose to read what I want to read. Did or didn't you write "An evo chamber, a spine, and a queen shut down any hellion play, thats it."? You did, and apparently that is wrong, because I brought you a counterexample (basic logic).

I didn't say anything about roaches, because I don't think you are wrong with it. Defensive Roaches are good vs hellions and even if it weren't for roaches, I don't think hellions are overpowered and I already wrote that I'm not sure if this buff is necessary, though I also think it won't change that much.
I however do believe, that roaches are not the "the solution", because relying on them still keeps you weak against a variety of rushes (marauders) and slows down your tech, which then again forces you to go for some zergling/roach build early on, instead of early mutas or infestors. True, if you play this style no matter what like stephano does, you are really well off with roaches vs hellions. For any other style, I don't really see them working because you will not have the gas for speed+lair+some infestors/mutas at 10-11min, so you either die to marauders and maybe even banshees or you are forced to stay roach/ling (+upgrades) on lowtech.
Also hellions can runby against roaches, so you still need a bunch of extra investments (speed, zerglings) to really be safe against possible mass hellion (1-2factory) variations, which you can't really scout.

On May 06 2012 00:47 komokun wrote:


Bleh, can't you be a simple troll ? mixing obvious stuff, not so obvious stuff, interesting and plain wrong ideas together is very mean of you. His head is going to explode