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eLeVaTioN
United States97 Posts
On December 10 2012 12:45 Glon wrote: This thread also has to be updated -- Myself, Rocker, and Daisuki have left vVv. Keep up the good work with Aspire, and best wishes to Aspire rising Thank you! best wishes to you as well! | ||
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robzgod
78 Posts
On December 10 2012 12:29 -Kyo- wrote: Not sure why you'd name those two to be honest... You've had much more successful players in the past and it always makes me sad when I see vVv being not as active in the top tier teams now and days. If I was to mention 2 players that really made vVv what it is today it would have to be Titan and NGry. For a while they were very well established among higher rated players, especially Titan, who has in fact been streaming a little if I've seen correctly. (not sc2 tho >.>) + Show Spoiler + If I was to guess why vVv "doesn't buy out talent" it's probably just mainly because they don't have the funding(not a bad thing). It's also just not in their priorities. They're looking for sustainability versus the "now", which is in my opinion, the better way to market a team within Esports. That all said, they do have their academy team which is looking to promote players to main squad if they're able to reach certain requirements. This is something that's incredibly beneficial to not just vVv as a team, but also upcoming players in the scene and shouldn't be pushed aside. It's something unique to vVv, fnatic and complexity as far as I know. I'm glad you brought this up. We honestly don't focus on buying talent because we don't feel that it actually adds much value to esports at this point. Anyone can throw money at players, it's actually a very boring way to run an organization in my humble opinion. Throwing money at players, creating a sustainable business model and doing it right is the fun/challenging part. Most teams don't really do that either though. I don't mean to discredit anyone, but it's just not where we see us (vVv) adding the most value in the long-term. Our biggest challenge is getting over the Team narrative that all teams that don't pursue and bid on top talent, don't have a place in competitive gaming. Whenever we post on TL or reddit we're constantly talked down and condescended, which is just straight up discouraging. We're trying just as hard to make esports work as other teams, but we take a slightly different approach, sorry? (Not directed at you, Kyo) | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
It was kind of a joke what you wanted them to do and how little they got in return. Combine with the fact that you guys don't even keep your promises to your players (I am not going to name names of players). I know many who were top tier players on vVv but were treated like shit. Again I won't name names to keep them confidential but man one of the best decisions I ever made was leaving that team especially from what I heard afterwords. I don't know if you guys changed management or anything, but I imagine it's still the same. | ||
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Zennith
United States795 Posts
On December 10 2012 13:32 blade55555 wrote: The reason you guys get talked down is the way you guys treated your players in general. It was kind of a joke what you wanted them to do and how little they got in return. Combine with the fact that you guys don't even keep your promises to your players (I am not going to name names of players). I know many who were top tier players on vVv but were treated like shit. Again I won't name names to keep them confidential but man one of the best decisions I ever made was leaving that team especially from what I heard afterwords. I don't know if you guys changed management or anything, but I imagine it's still the same. Yep. And when I was looking for a team back in the day, I remember the way that they treated prospective players, and it really just turned me off completely. And then seeing posts by Jerith here on TL, well, they've never made themselves really respectable on that side of things, IMO. | ||
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robzgod
78 Posts
On December 10 2012 13:32 blade55555 wrote: The reason you guys get talked down is the way you guys treated your players in general. It was kind of a joke what you wanted them to do and how little they got in return. Combine with the fact that you guys don't even keep your promises to your players (I am not going to name names of players). I know many who were top tier players on vVv but were treated like shit. Again I won't name names to keep them confidential but man one of the best decisions I ever made was leaving that team especially from what I heard afterwords. I don't know if you guys changed management or anything, but I imagine it's still the same. We have changed management, I will be moving to LA next week so that I can run the organization full-time. Do you have any advice or feedback of what I can do to regain trust back from the community if what you said in your first paragraph is truly how the community views us? Feel free to PM if you want to keep it private. | ||
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BabyToss!
Czech Republic588 Posts
On December 10 2012 13:38 Zennith wrote: Yep. And when I was looking for a team back in the day, I remember the way that they treated prospective players, and it really just turned me off completely. And then seeing posts by Jerith here on TL, well, they've never made themselves really respectable on that side of things, IMO. I'm sorry that you feel that way. But, we are trying to make changes. And seeing constantly negative comments can be really a big put off. It's easier to just critize rather than to try and do something yourself. Constructive comments and as to how to improve ourselves is always welcomed, as that actually will help, but condescending negative comments rarely help anything, least to create something nice. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On December 10 2012 12:45 Glon wrote: This thread also has to be updated -- Myself, Rocker, and Daisuki have left vVv. Keep up the good work with Aspire, and best wishes to Aspire rising Yeah it does... brb | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On December 10 2012 13:32 blade55555 wrote: The reason you guys get talked down is the way you guys treated your players in general. It was kind of a joke what you wanted them to do and how little they got in return. Combine with the fact that you guys don't even keep your promises to your players (I am not going to name names of players). I know many who were top tier players on vVv but were treated like shit. Again I won't name names to keep them confidential but man one of the best decisions I ever made was leaving that team especially from what I heard afterwords. I don't know if you guys changed management or anything, but I imagine it's still the same. I don't think there's a successful team that doesn't ask a lot from its players. Look at the horrible state that NA SC2 is in right now, with Checksix AND Quantic falling apart in the past few months  | ||
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Zennith
United States795 Posts
On December 11 2012 02:43 SugarBear wrote: I don't think there's a successful team that doesn't ask a lot from its players. Look at the horrible state that NA SC2 is in right now, with Checksix AND Quantic falling apart in the past few months I really don't see your point. vVv is hardly on the level either of those teams were. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On December 11 2012 03:43 Zennith wrote: I really don't see your point. vVv is hardly on the level either of those teams were. Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you weren't going to get my point. | ||
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Zennith
United States795 Posts
On December 11 2012 05:18 SugarBear wrote: Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you weren't going to get my point. Since I assume you're being sarcastic - you're suggesting that what vVv is doins is trying to fill a niche/hole that neither of those teams were able to by asking your players to contribute more (not knowing at all what Quantic asked of their players). My point is that you can't fill that role because you just aren't the same cailber of team. Sorry? | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On December 11 2012 08:15 Zennith wrote: Since I assume you're being sarcastic - you're suggesting that what vVv is doins is trying to fill a niche/hole that neither of those teams were able to by asking your players to contribute more (not knowing at all what Quantic asked of their players). My point is that you can't fill that role because you just aren't the same cailber of team. Sorry? I think you should actually watch and listen to this video: vVv is in no way trying to be a Quantic Gaming, and our unique culture as a community first and pro-team to support our community makes it a necessity to demand more from our players than other organizations might. | ||
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Shortizz
Singapore129 Posts
So much for your unique culture and values yeah? | ||
hunts
United States2113 Posts
On December 11 2012 02:43 SugarBear wrote: I don't think there's a successful team that doesn't ask a lot from its players. Look at the horrible state that NA SC2 is in right now, with Checksix AND Quantic falling apart in the past few months Because they really invested in SC2, as much as I'm not a fan of either team (especially checksix) they at least gave SC2 their all. VVV wont fail because they don't give their players much of anything but ask for a lot in return. So no, while those teams had to shut down, vvv wont because vvv doesn't actually invest in SC2. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On December 11 2012 14:08 Shortizz wrote: I had the worst experience playing against/with various vVv guilds in MMOs, especially in Aion and Aika. Sometimes they are named vVv, other times they are not but claims to have an affiliation and constantly advertise how awesome vVv is. The elitist attitude these players/guilds showed totally go against the values you kept trying to shove into our faces via the video. Not surprisingly, the first vVv player i met on SC2 ladder, vVvRuFF, is one of the most BM player on the NA ladder. He cheese, he win, he mocks you. He cheese, he lose, your hacking or is an extremely lucky bastard. Even vVvTitan has gone full retard once in a awhile when a no-name beats him. So much for your unique culture and values yeah? I'm sorry you had bad experiences with vVv players in the past, but Aion and Aika are certainly not recent games and our culture has changed quite a bit this past year or so. Also, we take the values in the video very seriously. If you have a problem like this with any of our players, please provide us with evidence of the event and we will address it. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On December 11 2012 14:11 hunts wrote: Because they really invested in SC2, as much as I'm not a fan of either team (especially checksix) they at least gave SC2 their all. VVV wont fail because they don't give their players much of anything but ask for a lot in return. So no, while those teams had to shut down, vvv wont because vvv doesn't actually invest in SC2. I think we already made it clear in the video that our focus is on the community, so if the only way to "invest in SC2" is by buying pro players, then I suppose we don't invest in SC2. However, if providing a place with an active community of Aspiring SC2 players for others to come and join and make the eSports scene great is investing in SC2 then we do invest in SC2. If providing a welcoming environment for people to share and develop skills necessary for eSports to thrive, such as streaming, casting, eSports journalism, video editing, etc. is investing in SC2 then we do invest in SC2. If creating a sustainable model where we can sponsor players to events while helping them develop real-world marketable skills without bankrupting ourselves is investing in SC2 then we invest in SC2. If providing a place for all the fans of all the pro teams in the world to get together to grow and learn is investing in SC2 then we invest in SC2. So either my time is worthless to you and I'm only useful as a cash register and not a human being trying to help make this eSports thing work, or your perspective is deeply, deeply flawed. | ||
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DeanMalinco
United States43 Posts
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KeyHunt
United States218 Posts
"Pro teams', especially in NA are very limited right now. So, why look down upon an organization simply trying to live within their means and put sustainability and player growth above all else? It's obvious these 'build it and they will come" strategies do not work. It's highly possible teams like vVv will outlast us all. It's fine if you don't support them because they don't have any players you like. However, I am just trying to explain that these differences should be appreciated for what they are in a space with very few pioneers in their own right. As far as the way they treat their players, I cannot attest to that as I am not associated with them at all. However, all the players on vVv know what they are signing up for. A big pay-day in the short-term is not it and that might be disappointing to some. Once again, not telling you who you should support..I understand if you do not support them. Just if you're open to it, do a little research behind the team and it might surprise you, it did me. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On December 12 2012 00:41 DeanMalinco wrote: I will add on to the others that have posted in this thread already. I can count at least 5 times I have ran into a vVv player on sc2 NA ladder and been BM'd to absolute hell. So much so that after the 2nd or 3rd time I Googled' your team just to see what other scum were on the team so I could avoid them in the future. Hope you guys turn over a new leaf, but for me....dead. I think this might be a problem caused by Blizzard's lack of name change and clan support. Whenever we hear about our players BMing anyone we address it, up to removing them from the organization. However, it is impossible for players to change their name once they add vVv tags, so if they continue to BM on ladder after being removed it still reflects on us | ||
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Zennith
United States795 Posts
The truth is that vVv is essentially a mid-tier NA team - probably most comparable with teams like OG and Optik, and lagging a little bit behind teams like LighT and FXO - NA/Legion in terms of sc2 skill. You guys do a good job of marketing yourselves, and I suppose you have a decent community base - but you aren't the only ones - and it isn't that unique to have academy teams and to be helping players start out with casting and such. Any smart mid-tier NA team does that, because they understand you have to find ways to get noticed every way possible, and it turns out that Casters and Community/Academy teams are good ways to do that. | ||
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