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On April 28 2012 08:29 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:22 Sergio1992 wrote:
Someone say me why David kim is still the balance designer of this game.
And please, people stop saying bullshits.
Stop this crap about tvp being broken early game in favor of terran. Early game favors protoss.
Mid-game it is different= terran favored ( medivac appearance)
Late-game=again protoss favored
Ultra-late-game:terran favored, with the sack of scv, lots of orbital , etc etc.
Stop asking for terran to get nerfed early game. Just figure your own fucking race, well, brotoss.
And the same to Terran, and I say that as a Terran player.
The only thing that should be addressed about tvp lategame, is the amount of non-micro the protoss must do. That should be improved, mixed together with the scaling efficiency of being cost effective while the units are being microed.
Gl hf
The early game actually goes in cycles more in depth than that. Before warpgate -> terran(units are simply produced faster, and potentially in larger numbers. After warpgate -> Protoss(units are closest to equal strength, and Protoss units come out faster. When stim finishes through midgame -> terran(more dps, more mobility with medivacs) late game-> Protoss (powerful AoE, and mass chargelot warp-ins ultra late-game -> terran (sacking scvs, and mass orbitals)
that "before warpgate" worked when maps were way smaller.
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On April 28 2012 08:29 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:22 Sergio1992 wrote:
Someone say me why David kim is still the balance designer of this game.
And please, people stop saying bullshits.
Stop this crap about tvp being broken early game in favor of terran. Early game favors protoss.
Mid-game it is different= terran favored ( medivac appearance)
Late-game=again protoss favored
Ultra-late-game:terran favored, with the sack of scv, lots of orbital , etc etc.
Stop asking for terran to get nerfed early game. Just figure your own fucking race, well, brotoss.
And the same to Terran, and I say that as a Terran player.
The only thing that should be addressed about tvp lategame, is the amount of non-micro the protoss must do. That should be improved, mixed together with the scaling efficiency of being cost effective while the units are being microed.
Gl hf
The early game actually goes in cycles more in depth than that. Before warpgate -> terran(units are simply produced faster, and potentially in larger numbers. After warpgate -> Protoss(units are closest to equal strength, and Protoss units come out faster. When stim finishes through midgame -> terran(more dps, more mobility with medivacs) late game-> Protoss (powerful AoE, and mass chargelot warp-ins ultra late-game -> terran (sacking scvs, and mass orbitals)
This is all so build dependend and makes absolutly no sense to put as simple as that. Example?
3stalker rush in TvP, or just a ton of chronoboost on the single gateway for something like 3stalkers before nexus, and suddenly Protoss has absolutly no trouble at all before warpgate but in order to get some tech or upgrades going, the after warpgate phase will be really weak.
Or a Terran, that goes 4-5rax after expand and not for the more popular 3rax stim, will have no trouble at all against warpgates, but his stim or his medivacs will be really late and therefore his midgame will probably evolve around more defensive techcatch up play.
All a question of build and style.
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David Kim doesn't talk about late game TvP because it can't be fixed. Deal with it and hope the battle hellion is any good.
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70% PvT win ratio on Cloud Kingdom, a 62% win ratio in PvZ on Korhal Compound, and a 37% win ratio on Metalopolis for TvZ. I'm wondering here, if the first race mentioned for each of these maps is the race that has X win ratio, for example 37% TvZ Metalopolis. Does this mean that Zerg is winning 63% of the time or that Terran is winning that much?
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On April 28 2012 08:36 Eraserhead wrote:
David Kim doesn't talk about late game TvP because it can't be fixed. Deal with it and hope the battle hellion is any good.
it cant't be fixed is funny, because it was fine before empnerf...
just make emp-radius upgradeble, ezpz fixed the game.
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On April 28 2012 08:36 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:29 Wingblade wrote:On April 28 2012 08:22 Sergio1992 wrote:
Someone say me why David kim is still the balance designer of this game.
And please, people stop saying bullshits.
Stop this crap about tvp being broken early game in favor of terran. Early game favors protoss.
Mid-game it is different= terran favored ( medivac appearance)
Late-game=again protoss favored
Ultra-late-game:terran favored, with the sack of scv, lots of orbital , etc etc.
Stop asking for terran to get nerfed early game. Just figure your own fucking race, well, brotoss.
And the same to Terran, and I say that as a Terran player.
The only thing that should be addressed about tvp lategame, is the amount of non-micro the protoss must do. That should be improved, mixed together with the scaling efficiency of being cost effective while the units are being microed.
Gl hf
The early game actually goes in cycles more in depth than that. Before warpgate -> terran(units are simply produced faster, and potentially in larger numbers. After warpgate -> Protoss(units are closest to equal strength, and Protoss units come out faster. When stim finishes through midgame -> terran(more dps, more mobility with medivacs) late game-> Protoss (powerful AoE, and mass chargelot warp-ins ultra late-game -> terran (sacking scvs, and mass orbitals) This is all soo build dependend and makes absolutly no sense to put as simple as that. Example? 3stalker rush in TvP, or just a ton of chronoboost on the single gateway for something like 3stalkers before nexus, and suddenly Protoss has absolutly no trouble at all before warpgate but in order to get some tech or upgrades going, the after warpgate phase will be really weak. Or a Terran, that goes 4-5rax after expand and not for the more popular 3rax stim, will have no trouble at all against warpgates, but his stim or his medivacs will be really late and therefore his midgame will probably evolve around more defensive techcatch up play. All a question of build and style.
Yeah. What is shown here looks more like a 2rax vs fastest 1gate FE possible on a map like Tal'Darim or Terminus with 16 bases cross positions.
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On April 28 2012 08:38 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +70% PvT win ratio on Cloud Kingdom, a 62% win ratio in PvZ on Korhal Compound, and a 37% win ratio on Metalopolis for TvZ. I'm wondering here, if the first race mentioned for each of these maps is the race that has X win ratio, for example 37% TvZ Metalopolis. Does this mean that Zerg is winning 63% of the time or that Terran is winning that much?
I think you interpreted it right.
37% TvZ means 37% wins for Terran and therefor 63% for Zerg.
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On April 28 2012 08:36 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:29 Wingblade wrote:On April 28 2012 08:22 Sergio1992 wrote:
Someone say me why David kim is still the balance designer of this game.
And please, people stop saying bullshits.
Stop this crap about tvp being broken early game in favor of terran. Early game favors protoss.
Mid-game it is different= terran favored ( medivac appearance)
Late-game=again protoss favored
Ultra-late-game:terran favored, with the sack of scv, lots of orbital , etc etc.
Stop asking for terran to get nerfed early game. Just figure your own fucking race, well, brotoss.
And the same to Terran, and I say that as a Terran player.
The only thing that should be addressed about tvp lategame, is the amount of non-micro the protoss must do. That should be improved, mixed together with the scaling efficiency of being cost effective while the units are being microed.
Gl hf
The early game actually goes in cycles more in depth than that. Before warpgate -> terran(units are simply produced faster, and potentially in larger numbers. After warpgate -> Protoss(units are closest to equal strength, and Protoss units come out faster. When stim finishes through midgame -> terran(more dps, more mobility with medivacs) late game-> Protoss (powerful AoE, and mass chargelot warp-ins ultra late-game -> terran (sacking scvs, and mass orbitals) This is all soo build dependend and makes absolutly no sense to put as simple as that. Example? 3stalker rush in TvP, or just a ton of chronoboost on the single gateway for something like 3stalkers before nexus, and suddenly Protoss has absolutly no trouble at all before warpgate but in order to get some tech or upgrades going, the after warpgate phase will be really weak. Or a Terran, that goes 4-5rax after expand and not for the more popular 3rax stim, will have no trouble at all against warpgates, but his stim or his medivacs will be really late and therefore his midgame will probably evolve around more defensive techcatch up play. All a question of build and style.
So were acknowleding that the situation is more complex than early game this, mid-game this, and late-game that. I was refuting a previous argument stating that Terran was weakest throughout the ENTIRE early game in every general case, and I was showing that was wrong.
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On April 28 2012 08:42 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:38 Fencer710 wrote:70% PvT win ratio on Cloud Kingdom, a 62% win ratio in PvZ on Korhal Compound, and a 37% win ratio on Metalopolis for TvZ. I'm wondering here, if the first race mentioned for each of these maps is the race that has X win ratio, for example 37% TvZ Metalopolis. Does this mean that Zerg is winning 63% of the time or that Terran is winning that much? I think you interpreted it right. 37% TvZ means 37% wins for Terran and therefor 63% for Zerg.
Ok, thanks.
Something else I'm not very happy about is no mention of the snipe nerf. ;_;
It's been hell whenever I want to get ghosts in X game but they're shit because they've been nerfed. They used to be one of my favorite units. ;_;
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On April 28 2012 08:41 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:36 Big J wrote:On April 28 2012 08:29 Wingblade wrote:On April 28 2012 08:22 Sergio1992 wrote:
Someone say me why David kim is still the balance designer of this game.
And please, people stop saying bullshits.
Stop this crap about tvp being broken early game in favor of terran. Early game favors protoss.
Mid-game it is different= terran favored ( medivac appearance)
Late-game=again protoss favored
Ultra-late-game:terran favored, with the sack of scv, lots of orbital , etc etc.
Stop asking for terran to get nerfed early game. Just figure your own fucking race, well, brotoss.
And the same to Terran, and I say that as a Terran player.
The only thing that should be addressed about tvp lategame, is the amount of non-micro the protoss must do. That should be improved, mixed together with the scaling efficiency of being cost effective while the units are being microed.
Gl hf
The early game actually goes in cycles more in depth than that. Before warpgate -> terran(units are simply produced faster, and potentially in larger numbers. After warpgate -> Protoss(units are closest to equal strength, and Protoss units come out faster. When stim finishes through midgame -> terran(more dps, more mobility with medivacs) late game-> Protoss (powerful AoE, and mass chargelot warp-ins ultra late-game -> terran (sacking scvs, and mass orbitals) This is all soo build dependend and makes absolutly no sense to put as simple as that. Example? 3stalker rush in TvP, or just a ton of chronoboost on the single gateway for something like 3stalkers before nexus, and suddenly Protoss has absolutly no trouble at all before warpgate but in order to get some tech or upgrades going, the after warpgate phase will be really weak. Or a Terran, that goes 4-5rax after expand and not for the more popular 3rax stim, will have no trouble at all against warpgates, but his stim or his medivacs will be really late and therefore his midgame will probably evolve around more defensive techcatch up play. All a question of build and style. Yeah. What is shown here looks more like a 2rax vs fastest 1gate FE possible on a map like Tal'Darim or Terminus with 16 bases cross positions.
So it works the same way for the argument I was refuting right? About Protoss having general superiority in the early game? That simply is not true at all. His argument was even more general than mine.
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On April 28 2012 08:45 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:41 Fencer710 wrote:On April 28 2012 08:36 Big J wrote:On April 28 2012 08:29 Wingblade wrote:On April 28 2012 08:22 Sergio1992 wrote:
Someone say me why David kim is still the balance designer of this game.
And please, people stop saying bullshits.
Stop this crap about tvp being broken early game in favor of terran. Early game favors protoss.
Mid-game it is different= terran favored ( medivac appearance)
Late-game=again protoss favored
Ultra-late-game:terran favored, with the sack of scv, lots of orbital , etc etc.
Stop asking for terran to get nerfed early game. Just figure your own fucking race, well, brotoss.
And the same to Terran, and I say that as a Terran player.
The only thing that should be addressed about tvp lategame, is the amount of non-micro the protoss must do. That should be improved, mixed together with the scaling efficiency of being cost effective while the units are being microed.
Gl hf
The early game actually goes in cycles more in depth than that. Before warpgate -> terran(units are simply produced faster, and potentially in larger numbers. After warpgate -> Protoss(units are closest to equal strength, and Protoss units come out faster. When stim finishes through midgame -> terran(more dps, more mobility with medivacs) late game-> Protoss (powerful AoE, and mass chargelot warp-ins ultra late-game -> terran (sacking scvs, and mass orbitals) This is all soo build dependend and makes absolutly no sense to put as simple as that. Example? 3stalker rush in TvP, or just a ton of chronoboost on the single gateway for something like 3stalkers before nexus, and suddenly Protoss has absolutly no trouble at all before warpgate but in order to get some tech or upgrades going, the after warpgate phase will be really weak. Or a Terran, that goes 4-5rax after expand and not for the more popular 3rax stim, will have no trouble at all against warpgates, but his stim or his medivacs will be really late and therefore his midgame will probably evolve around more defensive techcatch up play. All a question of build and style. Yeah. What is shown here looks more like a 2rax vs fastest 1gate FE possible on a map like Tal'Darim or Terminus with 16 bases cross positions. So it works the same way for the argument I was refuting right? About Protoss having general superiority in the early game? That simply is not true at all. His argument was even more general than mine.
I repeat: that "before warpgate" worked when maps were way smaller.
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On April 28 2012 08:43 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:36 Big J wrote:On April 28 2012 08:29 Wingblade wrote:On April 28 2012 08:22 Sergio1992 wrote:
Someone say me why David kim is still the balance designer of this game.
And please, people stop saying bullshits.
Stop this crap about tvp being broken early game in favor of terran. Early game favors protoss.
Mid-game it is different= terran favored ( medivac appearance)
Late-game=again protoss favored
Ultra-late-game:terran favored, with the sack of scv, lots of orbital , etc etc.
Stop asking for terran to get nerfed early game. Just figure your own fucking race, well, brotoss.
And the same to Terran, and I say that as a Terran player.
The only thing that should be addressed about tvp lategame, is the amount of non-micro the protoss must do. That should be improved, mixed together with the scaling efficiency of being cost effective while the units are being microed.
Gl hf
The early game actually goes in cycles more in depth than that. Before warpgate -> terran(units are simply produced faster, and potentially in larger numbers. After warpgate -> Protoss(units are closest to equal strength, and Protoss units come out faster. When stim finishes through midgame -> terran(more dps, more mobility with medivacs) late game-> Protoss (powerful AoE, and mass chargelot warp-ins ultra late-game -> terran (sacking scvs, and mass orbitals) This is all soo build dependend and makes absolutly no sense to put as simple as that. Example? 3stalker rush in TvP, or just a ton of chronoboost on the single gateway for something like 3stalkers before nexus, and suddenly Protoss has absolutly no trouble at all before warpgate but in order to get some tech or upgrades going, the after warpgate phase will be really weak. Or a Terran, that goes 4-5rax after expand and not for the more popular 3rax stim, will have no trouble at all against warpgates, but his stim or his medivacs will be really late and therefore his midgame will probably evolve around more defensive techcatch up play. All a question of build and style. So were acknowleding that the situation is more complex than early game this, mid-game this, and late-game that. I was refuting a previous argument stating that Terran was weakest throughout the ENTIRE early game in every general case, and I was showing that was wrong.
No offense, but if you want to say that the situation is more complex than a post described it, then say so 
For me it looked like you were just "putting it right", but not trying to argue that looking upon it with early: X, mid: Y, late: Z is straigth up too simple.
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On April 28 2012 08:38 Greenei wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:36 Eraserhead wrote:
David Kim doesn't talk about late game TvP because it can't be fixed. Deal with it and hope the battle hellion is any good. it cant't be fixed is funny, because it was fine before empnerf... just make emp-radius upgradeble, ezpz fixed the game.
Except the match was hugely Terran skewed not too long and it is even now. If late game is protoss favored then early is definitely terran favored.
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On April 28 2012 08:46 Sergio1992 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:45 Wingblade wrote:On April 28 2012 08:41 Fencer710 wrote:On April 28 2012 08:36 Big J wrote:On April 28 2012 08:29 Wingblade wrote:On April 28 2012 08:22 Sergio1992 wrote:
Someone say me why David kim is still the balance designer of this game.
And please, people stop saying bullshits.
Stop this crap about tvp being broken early game in favor of terran. Early game favors protoss.
Mid-game it is different= terran favored ( medivac appearance)
Late-game=again protoss favored
Ultra-late-game:terran favored, with the sack of scv, lots of orbital , etc etc.
Stop asking for terran to get nerfed early game. Just figure your own fucking race, well, brotoss.
And the same to Terran, and I say that as a Terran player.
The only thing that should be addressed about tvp lategame, is the amount of non-micro the protoss must do. That should be improved, mixed together with the scaling efficiency of being cost effective while the units are being microed.
Gl hf
The early game actually goes in cycles more in depth than that. Before warpgate -> terran(units are simply produced faster, and potentially in larger numbers. After warpgate -> Protoss(units are closest to equal strength, and Protoss units come out faster. When stim finishes through midgame -> terran(more dps, more mobility with medivacs) late game-> Protoss (powerful AoE, and mass chargelot warp-ins ultra late-game -> terran (sacking scvs, and mass orbitals) This is all soo build dependend and makes absolutly no sense to put as simple as that. Example? 3stalker rush in TvP, or just a ton of chronoboost on the single gateway for something like 3stalkers before nexus, and suddenly Protoss has absolutly no trouble at all before warpgate but in order to get some tech or upgrades going, the after warpgate phase will be really weak. Or a Terran, that goes 4-5rax after expand and not for the more popular 3rax stim, will have no trouble at all against warpgates, but his stim or his medivacs will be really late and therefore his midgame will probably evolve around more defensive techcatch up play. All a question of build and style. Yeah. What is shown here looks more like a 2rax vs fastest 1gate FE possible on a map like Tal'Darim or Terminus with 16 bases cross positions. So it works the same way for the argument I was refuting right? About Protoss having general superiority in the early game? That simply is not true at all. His argument was even more general than mine. I repeat: that "before warpgate" worked when maps were way smaller.
Why? The strength and weakness of individual units is not actually effected by map size. The way you utilize them can be, but their overall statistics and strength are not.
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On April 28 2012 08:48 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:43 Wingblade wrote:On April 28 2012 08:36 Big J wrote:On April 28 2012 08:29 Wingblade wrote:On April 28 2012 08:22 Sergio1992 wrote:
Someone say me why David kim is still the balance designer of this game.
And please, people stop saying bullshits.
Stop this crap about tvp being broken early game in favor of terran. Early game favors protoss.
Mid-game it is different= terran favored ( medivac appearance)
Late-game=again protoss favored
Ultra-late-game:terran favored, with the sack of scv, lots of orbital , etc etc.
Stop asking for terran to get nerfed early game. Just figure your own fucking race, well, brotoss.
And the same to Terran, and I say that as a Terran player.
The only thing that should be addressed about tvp lategame, is the amount of non-micro the protoss must do. That should be improved, mixed together with the scaling efficiency of being cost effective while the units are being microed.
Gl hf
The early game actually goes in cycles more in depth than that. Before warpgate -> terran(units are simply produced faster, and potentially in larger numbers. After warpgate -> Protoss(units are closest to equal strength, and Protoss units come out faster. When stim finishes through midgame -> terran(more dps, more mobility with medivacs) late game-> Protoss (powerful AoE, and mass chargelot warp-ins ultra late-game -> terran (sacking scvs, and mass orbitals) This is all soo build dependend and makes absolutly no sense to put as simple as that. Example? 3stalker rush in TvP, or just a ton of chronoboost on the single gateway for something like 3stalkers before nexus, and suddenly Protoss has absolutly no trouble at all before warpgate but in order to get some tech or upgrades going, the after warpgate phase will be really weak. Or a Terran, that goes 4-5rax after expand and not for the more popular 3rax stim, will have no trouble at all against warpgates, but his stim or his medivacs will be really late and therefore his midgame will probably evolve around more defensive techcatch up play. All a question of build and style. So were acknowleding that the situation is more complex than early game this, mid-game this, and late-game that. I was refuting a previous argument stating that Terran was weakest throughout the ENTIRE early game in every general case, and I was showing that was wrong. No offense, but if you want to say that the situation is more complex than a post described it, then say so For me it looked like you were just "putting it right", but not trying to argue that looking upon it with early: X, mid: Y, late: Z is straigth up too simple.
I was trying to say that, but you clearly prove that this is improper. I suppose I'm just going for the in-between now, since we should both be considered incorrect right?
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On April 28 2012 08:29 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:22 Sergio1992 wrote:
Someone say me why David kim is still the balance designer of this game.
And please, people stop saying bullshits.
Stop this crap about tvp being broken early game in favor of terran. Early game favors protoss.
Mid-game it is different= terran favored ( medivac appearance)
Late-game=again protoss favored
Ultra-late-game:terran favored, with the sack of scv, lots of orbital , etc etc.
Stop asking for terran to get nerfed early game. Just figure your own fucking race, well, brotoss.
And the same to Terran, and I say that as a Terran player.
The only thing that should be addressed about tvp lategame, is the amount of non-micro the protoss must do. That should be improved, mixed together with the scaling efficiency of being cost effective while the units are being microed.
Gl hf
The early game actually goes in cycles more in depth than that. Before warpgate -> terran(units are simply produced faster, and potentially in larger numbers. After warpgate -> Protoss(units are closest to equal strength, and Protoss units come out faster. When stim finishes through midgame -> terran(more dps, more mobility with medivacs) late game-> Protoss (powerful AoE, and mass chargelot warp-ins ultra late-game -> terran (sacking scvs, and mass orbitals)
I disagree with before warpgate because the maps have gotten to point where that doenst matter and really that early its the opening build that determines map control. I also disagree with the ultra late part because in order to do what you say protoss and terran would have to be maxed and not doing anything. Usually when a protoss is maxed or a terran for that matter its time to do something and doing something usually means you have to be ready to build more units which hurts ability to mass orbital.
If you do manage to pull it off though I would say it makes it more even than advantage one side because what will happen is the collosus HT archon force will meet with terran force and it will be completely dependent on position and micro to who wins the fight. If they just purely trade armies terran loses but if terran can outposition and kill protoss army off which it is capable of doing than terran will roll the protoss before reinforcements matter.
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On April 28 2012 08:49 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:46 Sergio1992 wrote:On April 28 2012 08:45 Wingblade wrote:On April 28 2012 08:41 Fencer710 wrote:On April 28 2012 08:36 Big J wrote:On April 28 2012 08:29 Wingblade wrote:On April 28 2012 08:22 Sergio1992 wrote:
Someone say me why David kim is still the balance designer of this game.
And please, people stop saying bullshits.
Stop this crap about tvp being broken early game in favor of terran. Early game favors protoss.
Mid-game it is different= terran favored ( medivac appearance)
Late-game=again protoss favored
Ultra-late-game:terran favored, with the sack of scv, lots of orbital , etc etc.
Stop asking for terran to get nerfed early game. Just figure your own fucking race, well, brotoss.
And the same to Terran, and I say that as a Terran player.
The only thing that should be addressed about tvp lategame, is the amount of non-micro the protoss must do. That should be improved, mixed together with the scaling efficiency of being cost effective while the units are being microed.
Gl hf
The early game actually goes in cycles more in depth than that. Before warpgate -> terran(units are simply produced faster, and potentially in larger numbers. After warpgate -> Protoss(units are closest to equal strength, and Protoss units come out faster. When stim finishes through midgame -> terran(more dps, more mobility with medivacs) late game-> Protoss (powerful AoE, and mass chargelot warp-ins ultra late-game -> terran (sacking scvs, and mass orbitals) This is all soo build dependend and makes absolutly no sense to put as simple as that. Example? 3stalker rush in TvP, or just a ton of chronoboost on the single gateway for something like 3stalkers before nexus, and suddenly Protoss has absolutly no trouble at all before warpgate but in order to get some tech or upgrades going, the after warpgate phase will be really weak. Or a Terran, that goes 4-5rax after expand and not for the more popular 3rax stim, will have no trouble at all against warpgates, but his stim or his medivacs will be really late and therefore his midgame will probably evolve around more defensive techcatch up play. All a question of build and style. Yeah. What is shown here looks more like a 2rax vs fastest 1gate FE possible on a map like Tal'Darim or Terminus with 16 bases cross positions. So it works the same way for the argument I was refuting right? About Protoss having general superiority in the early game? That simply is not true at all. His argument was even more general than mine. I repeat: that "before warpgate" worked when maps were way smaller. Why? The strength and weakness of individual units is not actually effected by map size. The way you utilize them can be, but their overall statistics and strength are not.
I don't know if u are serious so I won't continue anymore, you just dodged what I said.
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On April 28 2012 08:43 Fencer710 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:42 Big J wrote:On April 28 2012 08:38 Fencer710 wrote:70% PvT win ratio on Cloud Kingdom, a 62% win ratio in PvZ on Korhal Compound, and a 37% win ratio on Metalopolis for TvZ. I'm wondering here, if the first race mentioned for each of these maps is the race that has X win ratio, for example 37% TvZ Metalopolis. Does this mean that Zerg is winning 63% of the time or that Terran is winning that much? I think you interpreted it right. 37% TvZ means 37% wins for Terran and therefor 63% for Zerg. Ok, thanks. Something else I'm not very happy about is no mention of the snipe nerf. ;_; It's been hell whenever I want to get ghosts in X game but they're shit because they've been nerfed. They used to be one of my favorite units. ;_;
Well considering Terrans are still dominating Zergs I don't think anyone regrets the snipe nerf. Snipe was only being used against casters (where the ability has been buffed) and massive units anyway (Ultras, BLs, which made no sense).
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On April 28 2012 01:54 Rob28 wrote:
TvP lategame solution: Terrans, don't let the game get to lategame. Fucking duh. Every single one of your units is a harass unit, and you have a little maphack called scan that lets you know exactly what your opponent is doing whenever you want to know (and don't tell me you can't scan because you need to boost your econ... zerg makes that choice every time they drone, and you should have more than 1 orbital midgame anyways). Seriously now: constant harass + effective contain + good scouting = full map control, as early as midgame. I don't know what you T players are bitching about when your shortcomings are your own and not the game's. Agression is your key to victory, but you guys just aren't using it effectively. Protoss early game is hard as fuck... I can't think of a single race more succeptible to being cheesed and rushed more than toss.
While your advice is probably correct given the current metagame, it contradicts the idea that as Good Macro Players we should always be playing for the late game.
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Map win ratios, and over all win ratios are awesome to see.
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EPT
