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How you fix this game: remove the Colossus, the Marauder, and the Roach simultaneously (moving Hydra to hatch tech and make Helions armored so BFH hellions don't over run everything in mass now that Colossus are not burning them in 1 shot).
Bring back the lurker at lair tech, add in the viper, and give hydras speed off creep as a lair tech upgrade.
Terrans get the shredder to further boaster their now mech/biomech composition.
Protoss keeps the rest of their units, carriers are OMG GOOD NOW, and the khydarin amulet returns to its BW glory - 65 energy, not the broken 75. And for god sakes, bring back the freaking Reaver. Oh, and the oracle, what a great unit, definitely add that.
What i want PvZ to look like --> Gateway vs. Ling hydra into C-lot archon vs. ling/hydra/lurker ---> Gateway/storm/immortal vs. Ultra, ling, baneling, lurker --> awesome.
What i want PvT to look like --> upgraded gateway units vs. biomech or pure mech ---> siege tank lines with turrets, shredders, and slow thors vs. speed prism immortal drops ---> carrier/templar/gateway vs. pure mech --> air protoss vs. air terran. (Almost looks like a TvT!, wow cool!)
If they also decide to remove mothership, an easy way to buff toss vs. Broodlord infestor would be to put energy back on the corruptors... This would no longer be IMBA since the god forsaken horrible colossus is no longer in the game.
Blizzard, you know I'm right, these changes would mean no more "deathball styles"..... freaking do it man.
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On April 28 2012 02:55 willyallthewei wrote:
How you fix this game: remove the Colossus, the Marauder, and the Roach simultaneously (moving Hydra to hatch tech and make Helions armored so BFH hellions don't over run everything in mass now that Colossus are not burning them in 1 shot).
Bring back the lurker at lair tech, add in the viper, and give hydras speed off creep as a lair tech upgrade.
Terrans get the shredder to further boaster their now mech/biomech composition.
Protoss keeps the rest of their units, carriers are OMG GOOD NOW, and the khydarin amulet returns to its BW glory - 65 energy, not the broken 75. And for god sakes, bring back the freaking Reaver. Oh, and the oracle, what a great unit, definitely add that.
What i want PvZ to look like --> Gateway vs. Ling hydra into C-lot archon vs. ling/hydra/lurker ---> Gateway/storm/immortal vs. Ultra, ling, baneling, lurker --> awesome.
What i want PvT to look like --> upgraded gateway units vs. biomech or pure mech ---> siege tank lines with turrets, shredders, and slow thors vs. speed prism immortal drops ---> carrier/templar/gateway vs. pure mech --> air protoss vs. air terran. (Almost looks like a TvT!, wow cool!)
If they also decide to remove mothership, an easy way to buff toss vs. Broodlord infestor would be to put energy back on the corruptors... This would no longer be IMBA since the god forsaken horrible colossus is no longer in the game.
Blizzard, you know I'm right, these changes would mean no more "deathball styles"..... freaking do it man.
Dear Blizzard, this man is wrong. No one wants to deal with the full speed, hydra ball. Do not revert the game back to beta status. Please keep doing what you are doing and it will work out.
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4713 Posts
On April 27 2012 23:27 Sapp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 21:30 Destructicon wrote:On April 27 2012 21:13 Sapp wrote:On April 27 2012 21:06 ZenithM wrote:On April 27 2012 20:52 Quotidian wrote:David Kim wrote: We think that the adjustments we’ve made over time have kept pace well with meta game shifts did he actually admit to making balance changes that attempt to interact with metagame shits? That is totally not the job of a balance designer. The metagame is its own thing, and he should not be tampering with it and attempting to influence it, because as a result gross imbalances can occur as the metagame shifts again. On top of that he is risking stereotyping the match-up, like what happened when they put energy back on the Thor and completely shut down a strategy way before that strategy had even permeated the metagame. The classical "let the game balance itself with magical metagame shifts omg!". You know, metagame can be something like "Terran can't win, let's pick Protoss". Doesn't mean David Kim has to leave it at that and wait for a metagame shift that is not guaranteed to come. So yeah, he has to keep track of metagame shifts for balance purposes, if he's not looking at metagame then what the hell does he base himself on? Was the Thor and Ghosts changes good? I don't know, and I think decisions were taken too fast, but for others: roach range, KA amulet, ramp changes for PvP, blink timings, immortal range against 1-1-1, etc... Something obviously had to happen... I don't belive i'm hearing this.. Plz, u terran player, look me straight in the eyes and tell me that one ghost that cost 200/100 that can kill two broodlords just like (pew pew) that was a "ballanced" thing. decision were taken too fast? WTF man? I'd look you in the eyes and tell you with a straight face that the decision was exaggerated. Not only are your numbers off, a ghost could only kill one BL, but you fail to take into account the follow up and the context. Basically the only player in the world that was consistently winning late game TvZ using mass ghost snipe was MVP. I can count on one hand the number of times he did that. One of the was, unfortunately, right in front of the Blizz devs at Blizzcon, and they probably felt like it forced their hand. You have no idea how hard it is to control your army and your ghosts so well as to EMP all the infestors, repentantly snipe BLs and keep them and your army alive. Now if you're an intelligent and well educated man you'd only make a decision to buff or nerf a unit after you see it in several late game situation. MVP only won a hand full of games with that strategy, and we have countless other Koreans of comparable skill that failed, the sample size is ridiculously small, how can you make any educated decision from that? Now the follow up, in late game TvZ, assuming you managed to destroy the BL, Infestor, Corrupter army, which is very hard to do considering how strong it is, you have to invest into tons of Vikings, and Thors and get good positions. The follow up attack with lings and ultras would kill you given that Thors and Vikings are terrible against ultras and lings. After that the follow up of BL, Corrupter can kill you because marauders are terrible against air. So, no matter how much you hate it, terran needs a flexible unit in the late game that can handle both tech switches relatively well, supported of course. Terrans don't have any of that now seeing as Ghost was the only unit that worked and T3 terran sucks. So how the hell can you make a meta-game change of this magnitude, with such a limited number of games and with total disregard for the consequences and implications? However, I can tell you of a case that is even more damning, that of the Thor. Exactly after TSL3, with no time for the community to adapt, to learn and to counter, Blizzard nerfed the Thor into the ground. Thorzain single handedly managed to get the Thor nerfed. However, you would say that a single tournament contains both a very limited number of games, and a very small period of time for people to learn and adapt. Yet Blizzard didn't consider that and nerfed the Thor into oblivion, with disregard to the consequences, and look at the situation we have now, terran needs a good late game T3 unit and it has none. Now can you tell me with a straight face and looking into my eyes that Blizzard hasn't fucked up the balance and has rushed it? i'm really happy ur not a ballance designer. (or rather unbalance designer, lol) Terran is a strong race.. always been and will be. ghosts had to go. snipe was clearly op. (and i'm not going to argue if that nerf was done good or bad, but it was op and had to go)
Aha, I see how this goes. So despite the fact we had insufficient data trough limited number of games, despite the fact we only had one person able to do it consistently, despite the fact that zerg hadn't had time to develop a counter to it, and despite the fact that without a strong backbone unit to hinge on, terran is very vulnerable to tech switches, you still take the stance that the unit is OP.
Yep, great conclusion, I love the multitude of data you brought to the table to counter my argument, the sheer number of games you listed as evidence and the cases of where people tried to innovated against this and where stomped into the ground. Yes against such solid reasoning I can only conclude that I would be a "bad designer".
Ok, sarcasm aside, I wonder if you could tell the difference between something imbalanced and someone "breaking" the game. Imbalance I'd consider would be if a large number of people can reproduce the results and tactics of one individual to achieve the same level or similar.
That didn't happen with the Ghost, despite the fact that there are a number of other people that used mass ghost, someone mentioned Thorzain, they didn't have the same level of success as MVP in TvZ late game.
What happened was that someone, with a very precise and fine level of control, was able to take a unit and use its potential to beyond what it was thought possible as the time. One man, just one individual was able to do this, and only in a limited number of games.
This man was IMMvP, and the games where he displayed his skills where off the top of my head his game vs NesTea in the final of Blizzcon on Shakuras Plateau, and on Daybreak against FXO Lucky, in the RO32 of GSL Code S season 1.
Off the top of my head a similar game but with vastly different results was oGsFin vs FXO Leenock again of the RO32 GSL Code S season 1. I can't remember the exact map on which it was, but it would be worth it to see the entire series.
Now if BW would have been balanced the same way as SC2, then Terran would have received hundreds of nerfs as a result of Nada's, Boxer's, and Flash's streaks of dominance. It is generally accepted that BW is very balanced and is a very figured out game, it didn't become so because Blizzard intervined to bring out the band aid whenever a race was hurting, it became so trough hundreds of thousands of hours of practice and study of units, timings, compositions etc.
For the record, I'm not saying that SC2 should be balanced in the same way, but a lot more time should be allowed to study if the meta-game can shift by itself or if indeed there is a problem that requires a balance change. And in my opinion Blizzard has done a mediocre job so far.
Now since someone mentioned Thorzain, I want to remind you that he was one of the first people to post and say that the snipe nerf was exaggerated, he agreed that some changes might be in order, but from 45 to 25 was too much.
So, if you want to come and talk about balance and OP or UP, you better be sure you bring solid facts, games as references and statistics.
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On April 28 2012 02:55 willyallthewei wrote:
How you fix this game: remove the Colossus, the Marauder, and the Roach simultaneously (moving Hydra to hatch tech and make Helions armored so BFH hellions don't over run everything in mass now that Colossus are not burning them in 1 shot).
Bring back the lurker at lair tech, add in the viper, and give hydras speed off creep as a lair tech upgrade.
Terrans get the shredder to further boaster their now mech/biomech composition.
Protoss keeps the rest of their units, carriers are OMG GOOD NOW, and the khydarin amulet returns to its BW glory - 65 energy, not the broken 75. And for god sakes, bring back the freaking Reaver. Oh, and the oracle, what a great unit, definitely add that.
What i want PvZ to look like --> Gateway vs. Ling hydra into C-lot archon vs. ling/hydra/lurker ---> Gateway/storm/immortal vs. Ultra, ling, baneling, lurker --> awesome.
What i want PvT to look like --> upgraded gateway units vs. biomech or pure mech ---> siege tank lines with turrets, shredders, and slow thors vs. speed prism immortal drops ---> carrier/templar/gateway vs. pure mech --> air protoss vs. air terran. (Almost looks like a TvT!, wow cool!)
If they also decide to remove mothership, an easy way to buff toss vs. Broodlord infestor would be to put energy back on the corruptors... This would no longer be IMBA since the god forsaken horrible colossus is no longer in the game.
Blizzard, you know I'm right, these changes would mean no more "deathball styles"..... freaking do it man.
Seems like you want BW. Remove most of the new units of SC2, then add back BW units. Plus this statement "returns to its BW glory" just sounds like you are playing the wrong game, and in the wrong forum section.
BTW, before balance whining, please keep yourself updated about what's going on in HOTS. Shredder is getting removed. There were plans for a hydra upgrade to give them the same speed off-creep.
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On April 28 2012 03:01 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 02:55 willyallthewei wrote:
How you fix this game: remove the Colossus, the Marauder, and the Roach simultaneously (moving Hydra to hatch tech and make Helions armored so BFH hellions don't over run everything in mass now that Colossus are not burning them in 1 shot).
Bring back the lurker at lair tech, add in the viper, and give hydras speed off creep as a lair tech upgrade.
Terrans get the shredder to further boaster their now mech/biomech composition.
Protoss keeps the rest of their units, carriers are OMG GOOD NOW, and the khydarin amulet returns to its BW glory - 65 energy, not the broken 75. And for god sakes, bring back the freaking Reaver. Oh, and the oracle, what a great unit, definitely add that.
What i want PvZ to look like --> Gateway vs. Ling hydra into C-lot archon vs. ling/hydra/lurker ---> Gateway/storm/immortal vs. Ultra, ling, baneling, lurker --> awesome.
What i want PvT to look like --> upgraded gateway units vs. biomech or pure mech ---> siege tank lines with turrets, shredders, and slow thors vs. speed prism immortal drops ---> carrier/templar/gateway vs. pure mech --> air protoss vs. air terran. (Almost looks like a TvT!, wow cool!)
If they also decide to remove mothership, an easy way to buff toss vs. Broodlord infestor would be to put energy back on the corruptors... This would no longer be IMBA since the god forsaken horrible colossus is no longer in the game.
Blizzard, you know I'm right, these changes would mean no more "deathball styles"..... freaking do it man. Dear Blizzard, this man is wrong. No one wants to deal with the full speed, hydra ball. Do not revert the game back to beta status. Please keep doing what you are doing and it will work out.
Storm. And you can just put hydra speed on lair tech and mess with its research time/cost.
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On April 28 2012 03:04 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 02:55 willyallthewei wrote:
How you fix this game: remove the Colossus, the Marauder, and the Roach simultaneously (moving Hydra to hatch tech and make Helions armored so BFH hellions don't over run everything in mass now that Colossus are not burning them in 1 shot).
Bring back the lurker at lair tech, add in the viper, and give hydras speed off creep as a lair tech upgrade.
Terrans get the shredder to further boaster their now mech/biomech composition.
Protoss keeps the rest of their units, carriers are OMG GOOD NOW, and the khydarin amulet returns to its BW glory - 65 energy, not the broken 75. And for god sakes, bring back the freaking Reaver. Oh, and the oracle, what a great unit, definitely add that.
What i want PvZ to look like --> Gateway vs. Ling hydra into C-lot archon vs. ling/hydra/lurker ---> Gateway/storm/immortal vs. Ultra, ling, baneling, lurker --> awesome.
What i want PvT to look like --> upgraded gateway units vs. biomech or pure mech ---> siege tank lines with turrets, shredders, and slow thors vs. speed prism immortal drops ---> carrier/templar/gateway vs. pure mech --> air protoss vs. air terran. (Almost looks like a TvT!, wow cool!)
If they also decide to remove mothership, an easy way to buff toss vs. Broodlord infestor would be to put energy back on the corruptors... This would no longer be IMBA since the god forsaken horrible colossus is no longer in the game.
Blizzard, you know I'm right, these changes would mean no more "deathball styles"..... freaking do it man. Seems like you want BW. Remove most of the new units of SC2, then add back BW units. Plus this statement "returns to its BW glory" just sounds like you are playing the wrong game, and in the wrong forum section. BTW, before balance whining, please keep yourself updated about what's going on in HOTS. Shredder is getting removed. There were plans for a hydra upgrade to give them the same speed off-creep.
Shredder is getting removed for all the wrong reasons.
And i didn't say to remove all the new units, just the shitty ones ie, colo/marauder/roach. "BW glory" refers only to KA, not to the game's units. Not to mention, i'm only asking for the removal of 3 units, and the inclusion of more than three totally new units, so your argument that i'm playing the wrong game doesn't make much sense.
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I don"t understand why they follow ladder winrate ratio to make balance, isn't the mmr system making some fake balance in ladder ?
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On April 28 2012 02:55 willyallthewei wrote:
How you fix this game: remove the Colossus, the Marauder, and the Roach simultaneously (moving Hydra to hatch tech and make Helions armored so BFH hellions don't over run everything in mass now that Colossus are not burning them in 1 shot).
Terrans get the shredder to further boaster their now mech/biomech composition.
Protoss keeps the rest of their units, carriers are OMG GOOD NOW, and the khydarin amulet returns to its BW glory - 65 energy, not the broken 75. And for god sakes, bring back the freaking Reaver. Oh, and the oracle, what a great unit, definitely add that.
What i want PvT to look like --> upgraded gateway units vs. biomech or pure mech ---> siege tank lines with turrets, shredders, and slow thors vs. speed prism immortal drops ---> carrier/templar/gateway vs. pure mech --> air protoss vs. air terran. (Almost looks like a TvT!, wow cool!)
Blizzard, you know I'm right, these changes would mean no more "deathball styles"..... freaking do it man.
The Shedder has already been removed. It didn't even make it to the beta test.
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On April 28 2012 03:05 willyallthewei wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 03:01 Plansix wrote:On April 28 2012 02:55 willyallthewei wrote:
How you fix this game: remove the Colossus, the Marauder, and the Roach simultaneously (moving Hydra to hatch tech and make Helions armored so BFH hellions don't over run everything in mass now that Colossus are not burning them in 1 shot).
Bring back the lurker at lair tech, add in the viper, and give hydras speed off creep as a lair tech upgrade.
Terrans get the shredder to further boaster their now mech/biomech composition.
Protoss keeps the rest of their units, carriers are OMG GOOD NOW, and the khydarin amulet returns to its BW glory - 65 energy, not the broken 75. And for god sakes, bring back the freaking Reaver. Oh, and the oracle, what a great unit, definitely add that.
What i want PvZ to look like --> Gateway vs. Ling hydra into C-lot archon vs. ling/hydra/lurker ---> Gateway/storm/immortal vs. Ultra, ling, baneling, lurker --> awesome.
What i want PvT to look like --> upgraded gateway units vs. biomech or pure mech ---> siege tank lines with turrets, shredders, and slow thors vs. speed prism immortal drops ---> carrier/templar/gateway vs. pure mech --> air protoss vs. air terran. (Almost looks like a TvT!, wow cool!)
If they also decide to remove mothership, an easy way to buff toss vs. Broodlord infestor would be to put energy back on the corruptors... This would no longer be IMBA since the god forsaken horrible colossus is no longer in the game.
Blizzard, you know I'm right, these changes would mean no more "deathball styles"..... freaking do it man. Dear Blizzard, this man is wrong. No one wants to deal with the full speed, hydra ball. Do not revert the game back to beta status. Please keep doing what you are doing and it will work out. Storm. And you can just put hydra speed on lair tech and mess with its research time/cost.
Those are some well-intentioned but absolutely god-awful suggestions.
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I just want to see positional units with low speed --> tank/templar/lurker dominating again, the shredder is actually a great continuation of that concept, look at the reaver, it has no mobility, thats what discourages death ball styles because the splash units are too damn slow to retreat, and you end up attacking mainly w/ your faster units, and defending w/ the power units.
removing units like the marauder, colossus, and roach would make the slower splash units stronger because you are taking out the "tanking" ability of armies, and increasing the amount of movement on the minimap in any given game when compositions look more like hydra/ling/baneling breaking positions held by templar (you can also achieve this by making the colossus really really slow). On the other hand, chargelot/blink stalkers should be trying to break positions held by lurkers.
You can't deny that would make a better game.. c'mon..
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On April 28 2012 03:12 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 03:05 willyallthewei wrote:On April 28 2012 03:01 Plansix wrote:On April 28 2012 02:55 willyallthewei wrote:
How you fix this game: remove the Colossus, the Marauder, and the Roach simultaneously (moving Hydra to hatch tech and make Helions armored so BFH hellions don't over run everything in mass now that Colossus are not burning them in 1 shot).
Bring back the lurker at lair tech, add in the viper, and give hydras speed off creep as a lair tech upgrade.
Terrans get the shredder to further boaster their now mech/biomech composition.
Protoss keeps the rest of their units, carriers are OMG GOOD NOW, and the khydarin amulet returns to its BW glory - 65 energy, not the broken 75. And for god sakes, bring back the freaking Reaver. Oh, and the oracle, what a great unit, definitely add that.
What i want PvZ to look like --> Gateway vs. Ling hydra into C-lot archon vs. ling/hydra/lurker ---> Gateway/storm/immortal vs. Ultra, ling, baneling, lurker --> awesome.
What i want PvT to look like --> upgraded gateway units vs. biomech or pure mech ---> siege tank lines with turrets, shredders, and slow thors vs. speed prism immortal drops ---> carrier/templar/gateway vs. pure mech --> air protoss vs. air terran. (Almost looks like a TvT!, wow cool!)
If they also decide to remove mothership, an easy way to buff toss vs. Broodlord infestor would be to put energy back on the corruptors... This would no longer be IMBA since the god forsaken horrible colossus is no longer in the game.
Blizzard, you know I'm right, these changes would mean no more "deathball styles"..... freaking do it man. Dear Blizzard, this man is wrong. No one wants to deal with the full speed, hydra ball. Do not revert the game back to beta status. Please keep doing what you are doing and it will work out. Storm. And you can just put hydra speed on lair tech and mess with its research time/cost. Those are some well-intentioned but absolutely god-awful suggestions.
Remember that when hydras didn't have an answer, it was before the archon range buff that made Chargelot archons rape ling hyra, i don't see how mass hydra balls would be a concern anymore, no matter where you put hydra speed if its after lair tech.
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I think you guys have to realize that changes are not made in isolation and you can't address something like "TvP late game" without creating issues in other match-ups at other points of the game. SC2 is Blizzard's flagship eSports franchise and you can bet that they have people working hard to address balance issues, but they are not going to make a bunch of changes based solely on qualitative community feedback. I also think ZvP is a bit broken right now thanks to Stephano, but I can't conceive a solution that wouldn't break other match ups ("nerfing roach" will create more problems than it will solve).
I agree that these statistics are a little bit superficial and it's really to show that they have some data to back up their decisions, but I don't really expect them to upload a spreadsheet of all the match-up data from battle.net either. It would be nice to show some trends over time to see how the metagame is evolving and what are the variances from week to week.
The map statistics are a bit surprising. I didn't think of Cloud Kingdom as a PvT favored map but I guess drops in the main are difficult which basically shuts down Terran in the late game. 70% is a huge discrepancy and his casual tone is a bit alarming.
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On April 28 2012 02:55 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 02:54 architecture wrote:
Man with those imba scans, it's clear that T plays with full game knowledge! Therefore, T should never lose to stuff like 2 base bane/roach timings or 1 base trickery, or getting fooled that 2base8gate is not 3nexus.
No one that has any objective view on the game should be able to say that any race has good, or even perfect scouting. All races play extremely in the dark, and have the make decisions as such. Go watch any top T replay, most of the time, there's practically no extra information other than the implicit stuff that they read from unit counts/gasses etc.
you do realize that terran IS strongest early mid game BECAUSE they can react so well with there ease of scouting right?
He said, without providing any evidence.
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On April 28 2012 03:23 crocodile wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 02:55 SuperYo1000 wrote:On April 28 2012 02:54 architecture wrote:
Man with those imba scans, it's clear that T plays with full game knowledge! Therefore, T should never lose to stuff like 2 base bane/roach timings or 1 base trickery, or getting fooled that 2base8gate is not 3nexus.
No one that has any objective view on the game should be able to say that any race has good, or even perfect scouting. All races play extremely in the dark, and have the make decisions as such. Go watch any top T replay, most of the time, there's practically no extra information other than the implicit stuff that they read from unit counts/gasses etc.
you do realize that terran IS strongest early mid game BECAUSE they can react so well with there ease of scouting right? He said, without providing any evidence.
This is what I thought exactly when i read his post.
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On April 28 2012 03:23 crocodile wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 02:55 SuperYo1000 wrote:On April 28 2012 02:54 architecture wrote:
Man with those imba scans, it's clear that T plays with full game knowledge! Therefore, T should never lose to stuff like 2 base bane/roach timings or 1 base trickery, or getting fooled that 2base8gate is not 3nexus.
No one that has any objective view on the game should be able to say that any race has good, or even perfect scouting. All races play extremely in the dark, and have the make decisions as such. Go watch any top T replay, most of the time, there's practically no extra information other than the implicit stuff that they read from unit counts/gasses etc.
you do realize that terran IS strongest early mid game BECAUSE they can react so well with there ease of scouting right? He said, without providing any evidence.
trololol
yea, itd be nice to have some substantial evidence ;\
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On April 28 2012 03:36 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 03:23 crocodile wrote:On April 28 2012 02:55 SuperYo1000 wrote:On April 28 2012 02:54 architecture wrote:
Man with those imba scans, it's clear that T plays with full game knowledge! Therefore, T should never lose to stuff like 2 base bane/roach timings or 1 base trickery, or getting fooled that 2base8gate is not 3nexus.
No one that has any objective view on the game should be able to say that any race has good, or even perfect scouting. All races play extremely in the dark, and have the make decisions as such. Go watch any top T replay, most of the time, there's practically no extra information other than the implicit stuff that they read from unit counts/gasses etc.
you do realize that terran IS strongest early mid game BECAUSE they can react so well with there ease of scouting right? He said, without providing any evidence. trololol yea, itd be nice to have some substantial evidence ;\
Well there is winrate and game length statistics that shows some kind of evidence about the weaknesses of races during a certain time period, but it is still far from perfect.
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It's amazing how blizzard is able to use so many words but say nothing at all.
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I don't understand this at all.
Is Blizzard's balance team so simple-minded that they take these figures as the definition of balance? Read the post and all I saw is that the game is so balanced since in tournaments none of the match-ups don't favor any races.
I see no talk about early, mid- and late-game. No word about Terran forced to stick with T1 units while both others races are frequently using their T3.
I can also keep changing maps to which favor the weak race to make those figures be 50/50 too. But that's not balance.
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On April 28 2012 03:36 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 03:23 crocodile wrote:On April 28 2012 02:55 SuperYo1000 wrote:On April 28 2012 02:54 architecture wrote:
Man with those imba scans, it's clear that T plays with full game knowledge! Therefore, T should never lose to stuff like 2 base bane/roach timings or 1 base trickery, or getting fooled that 2base8gate is not 3nexus.
No one that has any objective view on the game should be able to say that any race has good, or even perfect scouting. All races play extremely in the dark, and have the make decisions as such. Go watch any top T replay, most of the time, there's practically no extra information other than the implicit stuff that they read from unit counts/gasses etc.
you do realize that terran IS strongest early mid game BECAUSE they can react so well with there ease of scouting right? He said, without providing any evidence. trololol yea, itd be nice to have some substantial evidence ;\
..... time frame win rates do provide evidence but Im certain that you will never be satisfied
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On April 28 2012 02:55 willyallthewei wrote:
How you fix this game: remove the Colossus, the Marauder, and the Roach simultaneously (moving Hydra to hatch tech and make Helions armored so BFH hellions don't over run everything in mass now that Colossus are not burning them in 1 shot).
Bring back the lurker at lair tech, add in the viper, and give hydras speed off creep as a lair tech upgrade.
Terrans get the shredder to further boaster their now mech/biomech composition.
Protoss keeps the rest of their units, carriers are OMG GOOD NOW, and the khydarin amulet returns to its BW glory - 65 energy, not the broken 75. And for god sakes, bring back the freaking Reaver. Oh, and the oracle, what a great unit, definitely add that.
What i want PvZ to look like --> Gateway vs. Ling hydra into C-lot archon vs. ling/hydra/lurker ---> Gateway/storm/immortal vs. Ultra, ling, baneling, lurker --> awesome.
What i want PvT to look like --> upgraded gateway units vs. biomech or pure mech ---> siege tank lines with turrets, shredders, and slow thors vs. speed prism immortal drops ---> carrier/templar/gateway vs. pure mech --> air protoss vs. air terran. (Almost looks like a TvT!, wow cool!)
If they also decide to remove mothership, an easy way to buff toss vs. Broodlord infestor would be to put energy back on the corruptors... This would no longer be IMBA since the god forsaken horrible colossus is no longer in the game.
Blizzard, you know I'm right, these changes would mean no more "deathball styles"..... freaking do it man.
These changes are intresting, but would never happen. Blizzard thinks the collsi, roach, and maurder are awesome and cool, and sense they're used so much they see no need to remove them.
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EPT
