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On April 27 2012 10:28 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
I have the same concerns about TvP...also, I found their comment that Protoss had the lowest representation at the highest levels of tournaments. Huh? The majority of the top 8 in current code S are protoss...
Making that conclusion from such a small sample size and one single occurence is just silly. In balance, the only thing that matters is the big picture.
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On April 27 2012 10:19 Sajaki wrote:
Nothing about TvP lategame what a joke.
i thought the same :/
in diamond - mid master it is sooo hard to keep up with protoss as a terran 
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On April 27 2012 16:56 Scila wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 16:53 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On April 27 2012 16:46 Scila wrote:On April 27 2012 16:36 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On April 27 2012 15:47 acrimoneyius wrote:On April 27 2012 15:29 darkness wrote:On April 27 2012 15:27 acrimoneyius wrote:
Lower damage of storm, keep the radius. Absolutely ridiculous that ONE STORM can kill an entire pack of marines by itself. Learn to use EMP and ghosts. I know how to use them. If one storm lands successfully the battle is basically lost. How is that fair? You are completely correct. I mean how unfair is it that a tier 3 unit can kill a tier 1 unit so easily, something must be wrong. Tired of these bronze league players' opinions. You SHOULD be punished for only going marines when its 20 minutes into the game, and 1 storm won't kill an entire pack of marines if you know how to micro. This old argument would make sense if Terran's higher tier units were viable. Currently, they are not. Really? Ghosts, Vikings, Ravens seem pretty viable to me, just to mention some. Raven is underrated in my opinion. Ravens are not viable because SM is horrible. Battlecruisers are not viable. Thors are not viable versus Protoss, and somewhat viable against zerg. Ghosts have been nerfed into oblivion, and are only viable against Protoss.
:/ seems like you just don't want to try new things. The seeker missile is really powerful when it lands, and the raven has other abilities too. You can make a wall with turrets to funnel zealots and the point defense drone is really good especially early game. Ghosts are really good TvP, don't see why people keep saying otherwise. They outrange templar with snipe and EMP is really effective.
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Read the post, found it interesting. Read the answers, felt sad for our community.
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[insert random balance qq/flame]
doing nothing but rotating out the worst maps is the best they can do right now imo
and the cloudkdm stats are including lower leagues so they are not nearly as dramatic as it seems
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there is an obvious problem with TvP matchup. It is even until storm charglots are out..and then it gets ugly... anyone denying this is either a biased protoss player or does not watch enough SC2. Id say that most likely storm needs to be nerfed... an idea i was thinking about is possibly giving ghosts stim so they could deal with chargelots a little better and not die because they are so slow during kiting... thus they could be massed easier and giving better opportunities to deny at least a few more storms. I have no idea if that would work but it would be interesting.
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Its balanced but it aint BW, is it.
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kind of disappointing that they are not talking about balance at certain times in the game.
pvz lategame vs mass broodlord infestor corrupter is impossible to win against when zerg doesnt fly into the vortex with most of their broodlords and obviously a lot of terrans have huge problems in tvp lategame. not sure if david kim isnt aware of these problems or just doesnt want to talk about it.
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The map pool is pretty imbalanced but because it hurts terran instead of favor terran (ST) were gonna stick around with it for a while.
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On April 27 2012 17:07 Surgical_Strike wrote:
there is an obvious problem with TvP matchup. It is even until storm charglots are out..and then it gets ugly... anyone denying this is either a biased protoss player or does not watch enough SC2. Id say that most likely storm needs to be nerfed... an idea i was thinking about is possibly giving ghosts stim so they could deal with chargelots a little better and not die because they are so slow during kiting... thus they could be massed easier and giving better opportunities to deny at least a few more storms. I have no idea if that would work but it would be interesting.
Yeah, there is an obvious problem with TvP, and it's that Terrans try to make it look Protossfavored, when it is obviously=statistics not.
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On April 27 2012 17:07 Surgical_Strike wrote:
there is an obvious problem with TvP matchup. It is even until storm charglots are out..and then it gets ugly... anyone denying this is either a biased protoss player or does not watch enough SC2. Id say that most likely storm needs to be nerfed... an idea i was thinking about is possibly giving ghosts stim so they could deal with chargelots a little better and not die because they are so slow during kiting... thus they could be massed easier and giving better opportunities to deny at least a few more storms. I have no idea if that would work but it would be interesting.
Ban this troll please. Ghosts outrange templar with snipe already. Marauders with slow and ghosts destroys chargelot/templar/archon. 3 EMP's = no shields for archon or zealots, and templar has no energy for storm. Kite zealots with marauders with concussive shell, GG.
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Simple fix, get rid of zealot +1 base armour, it's the only starting unit that has armour, yet it's meant to be a light unit that is easily massable. Even hellions are not good against zealots because they don't line up as much, and charge lets them surround without the fear of getting AOE'd.
Chargelots are the reason for the imbalance in the matchup in nearly every pro game I've seen, and I can see the same problems in ladder games; zealots can be massed too easily and the Terran has no splash that can beat them.
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i am actually glad there will be no more major balences changes, i think the game is in a good place for once, when i ladder almost 99 percent of the time i can i look at a replay and see where i lost. As opposed to 3 months ago where i would just shake my head at some of the games a terran player would win despite his horrible play
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This article clearly was released for one reason and one reason only by blizzard. They give the closest "adjusted stats" for the races from all leagues, then, they throw out really skewed numbers for maps... which they did not design mind you... trying to make themselves and their unit balancing look good and steer all conversation towards map balance.... which is a part of balancing a game but the maps cannot do it all. It does however make things ez on blizzard if people put the blame of imbalance on maps as they then do not have to fix/work on anything. saves them time, money, and PR.
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On April 27 2012 10:35 L3g3nd_ wrote:
taking stats from ladder as balance is the worst idea i have EVER seen
EDIT: oh god its from all leagues? that is 100 times worse.
yeh all you will have is all terrans whining about the 54% n favour In P, when protoss is probably one of the easiest races at low levels so easier to win at bronze - plat no problem.
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On April 27 2012 17:14 InoyouS2 wrote:
Simple fix, get rid of zealot +1 base armour, it's the only starting unit that has armour, yet it's meant to be a light unit that is easily massable. Even hellions are not good against zealots because they don't line up as much, and charge lets them surround without the fear of getting AOE'd.
Chargelots are the reason for the imbalance in the matchup in nearly every pro game I've seen, and I can see the same problems in ladder games; zealots can be massed too easily and the Terran has no splash that can beat them.
.... Ever heard of Marauders with concussive shell? They demolish zealots. Just learn to kite.
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On April 27 2012 17:12 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 17:07 Surgical_Strike wrote:
there is an obvious problem with TvP matchup. It is even until storm charglots are out..and then it gets ugly... anyone denying this is either a biased protoss player or does not watch enough SC2. Id say that most likely storm needs to be nerfed... an idea i was thinking about is possibly giving ghosts stim so they could deal with chargelots a little better and not die because they are so slow during kiting... thus they could be massed easier and giving better opportunities to deny at least a few more storms. I have no idea if that would work but it would be interesting. Yeah, there is an obvious problem with TvP, and it's that Terrans try to make it look Protossfavored, when it is obviously=statistics not.
um actually statistics say it is protoss favored and so do the highest level games. have fun with gsl pvp fest.
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you call me a troll and you say to counter chargelot archon with maurader.. you are an idiot.
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On April 27 2012 17:00 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 16:56 Scila wrote:On April 27 2012 16:53 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On April 27 2012 16:46 Scila wrote:On April 27 2012 16:36 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On April 27 2012 15:47 acrimoneyius wrote:On April 27 2012 15:29 darkness wrote:On April 27 2012 15:27 acrimoneyius wrote:
Lower damage of storm, keep the radius. Absolutely ridiculous that ONE STORM can kill an entire pack of marines by itself. Learn to use EMP and ghosts. I know how to use them. If one storm lands successfully the battle is basically lost. How is that fair? You are completely correct. I mean how unfair is it that a tier 3 unit can kill a tier 1 unit so easily, something must be wrong. Tired of these bronze league players' opinions. You SHOULD be punished for only going marines when its 20 minutes into the game, and 1 storm won't kill an entire pack of marines if you know how to micro. This old argument would make sense if Terran's higher tier units were viable. Currently, they are not. Really? Ghosts, Vikings, Ravens seem pretty viable to me, just to mention some. Raven is underrated in my opinion. Ravens are not viable because SM is horrible. Battlecruisers are not viable. Thors are not viable versus Protoss, and somewhat viable against zerg. Ghosts have been nerfed into oblivion, and are only viable against Protoss. :/ seems like you just don't want to try new things. The seeker missile is really powerful when it lands, and the raven has other abilities too. You can make a wall with turrets to funnel zealots and the point defense drone is really good especially early game. Ghosts are really good TvP, don't see why people keep saying otherwise. They outrange templar with snipe and EMP is really effective.
Seeker Missile is NEVER seen in proplay because it is a really bad ability. "Wall of turrets" you're just grasping at straws now. I didn't say ghosts were bad in TvP. I said they were bad TvZ, and were overall nerfed too hard. You really have no idea what you're talking about.
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EPT
