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Arco
United States2090 Posts
If they go through with the Warhound, this ability won't further destroy mech viability, because it'll probably be hard to cast on mass siege tank lines, and when you use Warhounds instead of Thors, there will be much more in a fight, so using Lockdown on them won't be as effective as the Thor. Just an idea. | ||
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Lord Zeya
United States82 Posts
On another note, THIS IS NOT SET IN FUCKING STONE. This isn't even beta- most of these things are still concepts, people! Think about that before you whine. I do have some critiques, though: TERRAN: The hero thor is still a dumb idea, but i'd rather the fake goliaths than the bulky, crazy hp thors. The super outseige-siege tanks idea is stupid outright- there are nukes for that, and I admit that no matter how annoying nukes are, they're at least fair. Shredders- I liked them, especially since a couple could stop the enemy offensive if he wasn't careful. But getting rid of them is fairer, since terran can just banshee/nuke/hellion my worker line as it is. PROTOSS: Nexus recall? Why can't you keep the mothership or bring a unit that has the spell? I don't want an arbiter, protoss cloak is frustrating as it is with DT's, but being able to warp back is crucial. If the nexus recall is kept, I'm expecting a LONG cooldown. Also, people complaining about protoss mobility: stalker blink (and stalkers are faster than many units as it is), and sentry Force Fields. Yeah, archons, ultras and thors can break them, but it slows the enemy enough for you to escape if you're careful. I admit I liked the replicant, but it makes sense why it's being cut. Prevents players from wanting to tech up too much. Replacing carriers: People don't realize that carriers are unfriendly to noobies. You had to either overwhelm them or micro, both of which are hard for low league players to remember on top of the multitude of other things you need to win. You can also make colossi to deal with siege lines, why add more units? ZERG: Overseers staying: There would have been blood to pay if they were cut. Vipers as exclusive spellcasters, fun. Infestors are not my cup of tea, but the mineral harass concept might take balancing. Specialized nydus worms: I'd rather see more solid concepts before passing judgement, but I like the idea, although there are other ways to solve the issue- creep highways with tumors/speed overlords, or brood lords. I'm assuming you have to upgrade a worm to get that anti-building thing up. | ||
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decaf
Austria1797 Posts
I think blizzard should approach this with the goal of fixing the design flaws. I don't think there aren't any TvT tank vs tank stalemates - in fact it takes quite some experience to know when to transition into sky terran. If something creates stalemates then it's the raven - which needs to be looked at anyway imo. I think they approached Zerg in the right way, fixing the problem of having to Hive until you can finally finish a game, because you don't really any lair tech siege units at disposal. As of now they're trying to make mech more doable, too. How well it's gonna work out is uncertain. An issue they forgot to look into is that terran tier 3 is shit. Reason why TvP late game is such a nightmare is because terran needs to stay on barracks units all game long while the Protoss army keeps getting stronger and stronger over time. This is how you would approach from a design fixing point of view. If you wanted to balance it tweak zealot charge so it's not autocasted and takes micro. And the things they add for protoss is just for the lulz it feels. A harassing unit is fine, but I don't think protoss really needs something else. What they could do though is removing the colossus and warpgate mechanic if they really want to make protoss interesting. | ||
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biomech
Germany380 Posts
On April 18 2012 05:30 Lord Zeya wrote: The hero thor is still a dumb idea, [...] [...] sentry Force Fields. Yeah, [...] thors can break them, [...] In case they remove the thor, there's no massive ground unit left to break ff. thats kinda shitty...  | ||
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entrust
Poland196 Posts
On April 18 2012 05:30 Lord Zeya wrote: People don't realize that carriers are unfriendly to noobies. Yes we realize that, that's the reason we want it to stay in the game and that's the reason why I nearly stopped playing SC2. They want to make SC2 and e-sport or casual game? RTS should involve strategy, micro and macro. The reason why people praise BW is that there is much more room for a player to show his skill. Yeah we need more units like: sentry and colosai. ROFL | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On April 18 2012 07:18 entrust wrote: Yes we realize that, that's the reason we want it to stay in the game and that's the reason why I nearly stopped playing SC2. They want to make SC2 and e-sport or casual game? RTS should involve strategy, micro and macro. The reason why people praise BW is that there is much more room for a player to show his skill. Yeah we need more units like: sentry and colosai. ROFL What I don't get is that when I played BW I never really got the impression that it was to hard to play when I was a casual. That is because, although I sucked, me and the opponent were on the same level of suckyness, thus it didn't really matter if the game was hard. I remember beating my friends by going MM vs. Protoss. And it even worked against people online. It wasn't until I started watching competitive Starcraft that I learned MM wasn't viable. That being said, if Blizzard would concentrate on balancing for the Top levels, everything would work out in the end. The issue is that all these patches has spawned a generation of cry babies who demand patches rather then natural progression in the game. Unless something is utterly broken, Blizzard should stop fondling the game. As for HOTS, I just hope Blizzard looks at the fundamental flaws of each race and try to expand on them. Unfortunately they seem reluctant to address key factors that are limiting the game such as WG. Not that WG is a bad idea. Its a great idea. But, the current status of WG results in limiting on what Blizz can do for GW units. | ||
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Fueled
United States1610 Posts
We have not kept the shredder My prayers have been answered. | ||
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NachiMe
250 Posts
On April 17 2012 20:11 Cyro wrote: 7 vs 9 with extended thermal lance, i dont think it is that substantial. If you stop to shoot at his thors you are going to take a ton of hits back thors have to wait a bit before shooting, it's really easy to kite thors with colossus. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
But the reason was horrible. 'It might catch players off guard to not have any more workers' ?!?!?!?!?!? Wait, so we're going to completely nullify harassment and excitement in the name of bronze league? Nothing but banelings vs unupgraded tier 1 will be one shot kills. | ||
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Rumpus
United States136 Posts
On April 18 2012 07:40 GinDo wrote: What I don't get is that when I played BW I never really got the impression that it was to hard to play when I was a casual. That is because, although I sucked, me and the opponent were on the same level of suckyness, thus it didn't really matter if the game was hard. I remember beating my friends by going MM vs. Protoss. And it even worked against people online. It wasn't until I started watching competitive Starcraft that I learned MM wasn't viable. That being said, if Blizzard would concentrate on balancing for the Top levels, everything would work out in the end. The issue is that all these patches has spawned a generation of cry babies who demand patches rather then natural progression in the game. Unless something is utterly broken, Blizzard should stop fondling the game. As for HOTS, I just hope Blizzard looks at the fundamental flaws of each race and try to expand on them. Unfortunately they seem reluctant to address key factors that are limiting the game such as WG. Not that WG is a bad idea. Its a great idea. But, the current status of WG results in limiting on what Blizz can do for GW units. Totally agree, WG really forced a lot of that Protoss flavor out of the race. I think Zerg has some HORRIBLE design flaws, from macro mechanics, to unit design, tech trees, and variety. ZvX just seems very very linear and structured, with no real room for changing things up. | ||
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lowercase
Canada1047 Posts
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ThomasHobbes
United States197 Posts
On April 18 2012 08:10 0neder wrote: But the reason was horrible. 'It might catch players off guard to not have any more workers' ?!?!?!?!?!? Wait, so we're going to completely nullify harassment and excitement in the name of bronze league? Nothing but banelings vs unupgraded tier 1 will be one shot kills. It was intended as a means to gain map control, every Terran and his mother was using it to clean up minerals lines instead. That's a classic design failure, they admitted it wasn't working and took it out of the game. It wasn't supposed to be a "if this gets in your mineral line it's the end of the game", Terran already has the best harassment in the game, it was supposed to be a way to stop runbys and corner off the map. It wasn't working. | ||
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archon256
United States363 Posts
On April 18 2012 08:24 lowercase wrote: I still don't know how Swarm Hosts are supposed to do any damage whatsoever. They don't shoot a projectile, they produce a little unit! If you have a few swarm hosts and have them attack a big deathball/bioball, all the locusts will be killed before they get near and do no damage. At least with lurkers they served their function: sieged, ranged, AOE attack. Swarm host has only one of those features. Well it's both an advantage and a disadvantage. Lurkers would do guaranteed damage in their range, and while Swarm Hosts' damage isn't guaranteed, they do produce units that can tank for your other units. Plus Lurkers were hardly seige units, they didn't have the range needed for that. The only thing they have in common is that they both "attack" while burrowed, and even that is different in the ways I mentioned. There's really no point in comparing them. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On April 18 2012 09:05 ThomasHobbes wrote: It was intended as a means to gain map control, every Terran and his mother was using it to clean up minerals lines instead. That's a classic design failure, they admitted it wasn't working and took it out of the game. It wasn't supposed to be a "if this gets in your mineral line it's the end of the game", Terran already has the best harassment in the game, it was supposed to be a way to stop runbys and corner off the map. It wasn't working. You could say the same about spider mines and reaver scarabs. The first was intended only to hit non-worker units, but if the enemy made a mistake their workers would take the hit. If the reaver gets in your mineral line all your workers are usually dead quite easily, unless you take precautions (like turrets, etc) which would be the same case in SC2. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On April 18 2012 09:13 archon256 wrote: Well it's both an advantage and a disadvantage. Lurkers would do guaranteed damage in their range, and while Swarm Hosts' damage isn't guaranteed, they do produce units that can tank for your other units. Plus Lurkers were hardly seige units, they didn't have the range needed for that. The only thing they have in common is that they both "attack" while burrowed, and even that is different in the ways I mentioned. There's really no point in comparing them. Remember that lurker shots could be dodged by very high caliber players, so it's not completely the case that they are different, it's just the fashion that you dodge/kite the attack that changes. | ||
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RUS RO DAH!!!
United States277 Posts
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Rococo
United States331 Posts
- The factory lighter on options than the barracks? In compositions maybe, but only because bio units are more generalized. Giving the Thor its own equivalent of the Marauder might give more options, but they'd be superficial ones. - The anti-air spider mine sounds neat. I've always thought Seeker Missile should have functioned that way. - A very long range missile unit? How about replacing Snipe with a TvT-viable spell that makes nuking more feasible? - Neither surprised nor saddened to see the replicant go. - Since he implies it's new I'm not sure if he's saying that Blinding Cloud has been changed in some way. His phrasing makes it kind of sound like it now applies the state "Blinded" to units in an area for X duration, like Fungal rather than Psi Storm. Maybe he just forgot that Blinding Cloud was already previewed. - Having the Viper feed off of minerals doesn't really excite me as much as Consume would (My least favorite thing about caster energy is that it encourages periods of non-interaction. Consume solves this), but I can see how giving tactical value to untaken expos could make for some interesting situations. It all depends on how pivotal the Viper is and how quick its mineral consume is (specifically the ratio of time spent travelling to time spent eating). Still waiting for that unit or change that makes me say "Wow, Blizzard is really serious about improving this game." | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On April 18 2012 09:16 Roe wrote: You could say the same about spider mines and reaver scarabs. The first was intended only to hit non-worker units, but if the enemy made a mistake their workers would take the hit. If the reaver gets in your mineral line all your workers are usually dead quite easily, unless you take precautions (like turrets, etc) which would be the same case in SC2. The only issue about making Shredders only affect by non-workers is that Zerg will QQ. And with reason. They will be the only race that cannot out range the shredder in order to kill it without triggering its attack, unless they tech hydra against Terran T_T. | ||
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong748 Posts
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
On April 18 2012 08:24 lowercase wrote: I still don't know how Swarm Hosts are supposed to do any damage whatsoever. They don't shoot a projectile, they produce a little unit! If you have a few swarm hosts and have them attack a big deathball/bioball, all the locusts will be killed before they get near and do no damage. At least with lurkers they served their function: sieged, ranged, AOE attack. Swarm host has only one of those features. It's not swarm hosts attacking a deathball, but being mixed in to the late game zerg death ball that I'm thinking about. Infestor, Broodlord, swarm host, with a few roaches mixed in, could be a problem. Imagine late game vs infinite free units, fungal, infested terrans, on top of the zerg remax speed. If you don't have an army that can smash them right then and there, you will slowly die to the infinite broodlings + fungal. Not to mention you will need your obs to see the swarm host (or anything else that's burrowed) but you will also have to keep the obs out of fungal range. I guess you could just nexus recall and try to build a deathball that can beat it heads up, but that's kind of what Blizzard said they wanted to move away from. It's hard to really theory craft about a game that's so far away, but thinking of how rough BL/infestor is now, I am scared of zerg having more free units and another spellcaster. Especially, if the swarm host comes out in the mid game and starts putting endless pressure on a Protoss trying to secure a 3rd. | ||
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