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Blizzard negotiating SC2 with KeSPA directly - Page 30

Forum Index > SC2 General
1005 CommentsPost a Reply
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Knock off the SC2 vs BW vs LoL vs whatever crap please.
LarJarsE
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1378 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-25 04:06:17
March 25 2012 04:05 GMT
#581
On March 25 2012 02:18 lottopk wrote:
Its inevitable. Everything must progress and bw is getting old.

User was warned for this post

I disagree with the warning of this post. (edit: which is right on the front page.....) It is a Korean expressing his opinion on the forum....

since 98'
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
March 25 2012 04:07 GMT
#582
On March 25 2012 12:44 Lysenko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2012 12:21 ZeromuS wrote:
Well, they did fire a lot of people so hopefully they work on Bnet for the expansion.


At the risk of getting off-topic (which I'll try to remedy by offering some real information in this post), the handful of layoffs on the development side don't have anything to do with where they are on Battle.net. There are some announced improvements coming in SC2:WoL 1.5, and probably more with HotS, but there's obviously a long story there.

* The original Battle.net 2.0 UI implementation, including friends list features and the custom game interface, was thrown together in pure emergency mode by a tiny development team that was pulled off working on Titan with little notice and very little time to get something done. They had no time to implement anything beyond what went into the original release, including the chat channels we got later.

* Since that team went back onto Titan as soon as SC2 shipped, it took time to get additional features like chat channels added by the developers that remained.

* The project director for Battle.net 2.0, Greg Canessa, moved on to be Activision's VP for mobile development in late 2010. I'm sure this didn't help in terms of pushing Battle.net 2.0 feature development for future projects.

* The recent snafu involving D3 community manager Bashiok's posting that D3 wasn't going to have public chat channels because of the high support cost of following up on misbehavior in them, followed by a huge community uproar and Bashiok's posting that he misspoke about that and they were already implemented, suggests to me at least that there's an internal conflict of some kind within Blizzard about whether community features like that are worth the cost on games with no subscription mechanism. Bashiok works for the support organization within Blizzard that would have to pay those costs, and the developers don't, so it sounds like there was probably some high-level push-and-pull there.

That last, by the way, is probably the biggest reason that a robust chat system hasn't been developed for SC2 or D3. At least some of the people at Blizzard view it as a very costly feature to support, absence of which won't dissuade most people from buying the game initially.

Blizzard dealt with the chat systems in games up through Warcraft 3 as a "buyer beware" kind of system. Spam? Obscene language? No problem! However, World of Warcraft gave them the budget to address those issues, and set a standard that they would address those issues, so suddenly the buyer-beware attitude doesn't seem like a viable choice for future games, even if there's no ongoing revenue stream to pay for anything better.

I also think that SC2 wasn't the sales success that they hoped it would be, so they cut back on related development to some extent. However, that's pure speculation on my part.

Edit: Don't make me the bad guy by starting a huge side conversation about the merits of bnet 2.0 in this thread. If you feel like answering at length, PM me and we can find somewhere else for that.


No no, it all makes sense and you had a well thought out post. I can still hold out hope for improvements that bring more people into or back to the game
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-25 04:14:18
March 25 2012 04:11 GMT
#583
On March 25 2012 13:07 ZeromuS wrote:
No no, it all makes sense and you had a well thought out post. I can still hold out hope for improvements that bring more people into or back to the game


That edit wasn't directed at you, I just didn't want to start an off-topic discussion of some kind that might belong better in another thread. Sorry!

BTW I agree, I am certainly hoping for a lot more improvements in this area.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
domane
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada1606 Posts
March 25 2012 04:16 GMT
#584
I imagine the change will happen eventually. That being said, we don't know if everything has been finalized. I think people should tread through tactfully and show more tolerance to other fans, unlike some individuals from each side in this thread.
tsango
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia214 Posts
March 25 2012 04:31 GMT
#585
I can appreciate the disappointment many BW fans express with the likelihood that over the next few years it may well be phased out in favour of sc2,
Many years ago i played wc, then wc2 and then wc3+FT and i honestly feel as though the progression was good for the game. The biggest thing holding BW back from having a wider appeal is the game resolutions, and while a 'purist' might argue that that is part of its charm, sometimes its better to let things move on so you can retain great memories and nostalgia over such things rather than keep them running untill they languish to a point where they have to be cut.
I never really got into BW playing more WC myself but i think an eventual shift to sc2 is inevitable and ultimately in Esports best interests - with that being said i wouldnt be surprised if proleague switched and something smaller like iccup remained for the dedicated few (people still play wc3ft).

just my 2c.
If you dont like something, then that should be reason enough to try and change it
Linwelin
Profile Joined March 2011
Ireland7554 Posts
March 25 2012 04:36 GMT
#586
On March 25 2012 13:31 tsango wrote:
I can appreciate the disappointment many BW fans express with the likelihood that over the next few years it may well be phased out in favour of sc2,
Many years ago i played wc, then wc2 and then wc3+FT and i honestly feel as though the progression was good for the game. The biggest thing holding BW back from having a wider appeal is the game resolutions, and while a 'purist' might argue that that is part of its charm, sometimes its better to let things move on so you can retain great memories and nostalgia over such things rather than keep them running untill they languish to a point where they have to be cut.
I never really got into BW playing more WC myself but i think an eventual shift to sc2 is inevitable and ultimately in Esports best interests - with that being said i wouldnt be surprised if proleague switched and something smaller like iccup remained for the dedicated few (people still play wc3ft).

just my 2c.


"Problem" is, many people don't care about ESPORTS(which you spelled wrong btw) but just about their game. Saying that a shift to sc2 is good for ESPORTS will not make things better
Fuck Razor and Death Prophet
Mawi
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden4365 Posts
March 25 2012 04:39 GMT
#587
its funny how things have become I LOVE ESPORTS But aslong as its my game that i enjoy fuck the rest YAY GO ESPORTS

this is just too bad for the scene but oh well can only wait and see what happends
Forever Mirin Zyzz Son of Zeus Brother of Hercules Father of the Aesthetics
hangarninetysix
Profile Joined August 2010
263 Posts
March 25 2012 04:41 GMT
#588
This is absolutely ridiculous. You're gonna have a 'proleague' for a game that has TWO MAJOR EXPANSIONS left to be released? This isn't MLG or some GomTV internet stream. I don't know... it would be cool, that's for sure, but there has to be at least a little consistency in the actual structure of the game being played.
stfouri
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland272 Posts
March 25 2012 04:42 GMT
#589
Mod censored THAT line from the OP? :D
Guess I just don't take part in this discussion, so I wont get banned. (not offtopic).

User was warned for this post
Wafflelisk
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada1061 Posts
March 25 2012 04:59 GMT
#590
I think KeSPA would do fantastic things with SC2, but I'm kind of torn, as I don't want the future of BW put in jeopardy.

I don't think that there's any real reason that they both couldn't exist under KeSPA, but any amount of change kind of worries me about how the pieces will resettle.

In any event, interesting to see how this plays out.
Waffles > Pancakes
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
March 25 2012 05:00 GMT
#591
On March 25 2012 09:34 Marti wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2012 09:18 Zato-1 wrote:
On March 25 2012 07:57 StarStruck wrote:
On March 25 2012 07:55 Zato-1 wrote:
If their handling of the BW scene is any indication, I'm not sure KeSPA getting involved in SC2 is a good thing for SC2.


That could happen to any title man. Doesn't matter. If they're having a hard time finding new sponsors then there's really nothing else they can do about it. If a game gets really big, they cannot ignore it either.

That's not what I meant. What I did mean is, I'm not a fan of all the KeSPA BW shenanigans- disqualifying players for not typing the proper request for a pause, boycotting the GomTV Intel Classic BW tournaments, creating a huge legal drama with Blizzard over Starcraft broadcasting rights, that kind of thing.

Just like how you can like music but not be a fan of the RIAA, I was once a fan of BW but disliked KeSPA; now, I am no longer a fan of BW, but I'm still wary of KeSPA.



Keep in mind that, for all the bad it has done, KeSPA has created a pretty solid system, that lasted over 10 years, and is still going. Sure, it's not really funny to see flash considered looser because of a power outage, sure we don't like seeing players disqualified for "pp" or "a", but they still managed to build something. How often do you hear about a team stealing another team's players ? How often do you come across problems such as the one that happened to orb, with mad redditorz spamming the sponsors of a team to get someone fired ?
Now to be fair, i have to point out that the GOMTV boycott wasn't very nice, but i don't think KeSPA is as bad as people think.

I don't visit Reddit, but from what I understand, the SC2 section of Reddit is very vibrant- for better or for worse. It's only natural that an incident like the one that engulfed -orb- would happen on the SC2 scene for Reddit, as the BW Reddit scene is a lot smaller (if it even exists; as I mentioned, I don't visit Reddit myself so I wouldn't know).

As for teams stealing one anothers' players... KeSPA takes it to another extreme. Remember when Jaedong became a Free Agent and was left alone in the cold? I'm not sure what went on behind the scenes there, but I get the impression that KeSPA makes it exceedingly difficult for players to switch teams, even if they want to. I certainly wouldn't say that their system is better than the SC2 system for switching teams.

As to your last point, I concede that KeSPA has also done a lot of good; they've been at the heart of professional Brood Wars for over a decade, and they deserve at least some of the credit for everything it has achieved. However, that's not good enough for me. I don't go out of my way to thank Kodak for the work they did for photography, I don't sing praises to my local bakery for providing me bread, and I won't fawn over KeSPA for the work it's done for BW. It's their job to do so, and it's reasonable to expect them to promote the BW scene as best as they can. And as far as how well they've been doing their job? I'm not impressed. I look at what GomTV and IPL are doing for the SC2 scene, and they're doing it much, much better.

High quality videos on demand, high quality english casting for international audiences, consistently fair rulings, no shenanigans. I love Blizzard's games, and I'm loving what both GomTV and IPL are doing for SC2. KeSPA? Not so much.

As to BW vs. SC2 vs. LoL: They're all great games, people. Live and let live.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
Marti
Profile Joined August 2011
552 Posts
March 25 2012 05:13 GMT
#592
On March 25 2012 14:00 Zato-1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2012 09:34 Marti wrote:
On March 25 2012 09:18 Zato-1 wrote:
On March 25 2012 07:57 StarStruck wrote:
On March 25 2012 07:55 Zato-1 wrote:
If their handling of the BW scene is any indication, I'm not sure KeSPA getting involved in SC2 is a good thing for SC2.


That could happen to any title man. Doesn't matter. If they're having a hard time finding new sponsors then there's really nothing else they can do about it. If a game gets really big, they cannot ignore it either.

That's not what I meant. What I did mean is, I'm not a fan of all the KeSPA BW shenanigans- disqualifying players for not typing the proper request for a pause, boycotting the GomTV Intel Classic BW tournaments, creating a huge legal drama with Blizzard over Starcraft broadcasting rights, that kind of thing.

Just like how you can like music but not be a fan of the RIAA, I was once a fan of BW but disliked KeSPA; now, I am no longer a fan of BW, but I'm still wary of KeSPA.



Keep in mind that, for all the bad it has done, KeSPA has created a pretty solid system, that lasted over 10 years, and is still going. Sure, it's not really funny to see flash considered looser because of a power outage, sure we don't like seeing players disqualified for "pp" or "a", but they still managed to build something. How often do you hear about a team stealing another team's players ? How often do you come across problems such as the one that happened to orb, with mad redditorz spamming the sponsors of a team to get someone fired ?
Now to be fair, i have to point out that the GOMTV boycott wasn't very nice, but i don't think KeSPA is as bad as people think.

I don't visit Reddit, but from what I understand, the SC2 section of Reddit is very vibrant- for better or for worse. It's only natural that an incident like the one that engulfed -orb- would happen on the SC2 scene for Reddit, as the BW Reddit scene is a lot smaller (if it even exists; as I mentioned, I don't visit Reddit myself so I wouldn't know).

As for teams stealing one anothers' players... KeSPA takes it to another extreme. Remember when Jaedong became a Free Agent and was left alone in the cold? I'm not sure what went on behind the scenes there, but I get the impression that KeSPA makes it exceedingly difficult for players to switch teams, even if they want to. I certainly wouldn't say that their system is better than the SC2 system for switching teams.

As to your last point, I concede that KeSPA has also done a lot of good; they've been at the heart of professional Brood Wars for over a decade, and they deserve at least some of the credit for everything it has achieved. However, that's not good enough for me. I don't go out of my way to thank Kodak for the work they did for photography, I don't sing praises to my local bakery for providing me bread, and I won't fawn over KeSPA for the work it's done for BW. It's their job to do so, and it's reasonable to expect them to promote the BW scene as best as they can. And as far as how well they've been doing their job? I'm not impressed. I look at what GomTV and IPL are doing for the SC2 scene, and they're doing it much, much better.

High quality videos on demand, high quality english casting for international audiences, consistently fair rulings, no shenanigans. I love Blizzard's games, and I'm loving what both GomTV and IPL are doing for SC2. KeSPA? Not so much.

As to BW vs. SC2 vs. LoL: They're all great games, people. Live and let live.



Yeah i'm not trying to argue about that, it's just that i don't think kespa is all that evil. But i'm not trying to convince anyone, just wanna remind people that they also do some good.
#adun giveafuck - - - "Did this guy just randomly finger me?" - Sayle
honed
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada482 Posts
March 25 2012 05:15 GMT
#593
damn, this is very interesting, i didnt think that blizzard would deal with kespa directly again
Mazaire
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia217 Posts
March 25 2012 05:16 GMT
#594
nooo bw
"No matter what event you go to there are so many koreans, like a swarm. Even if you beat three or four, there are like 10 others waiting." - Socke
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
March 25 2012 05:19 GMT
#595
On March 25 2012 13:59 Wafflelisk wrote:
I think KeSPA would do fantastic things with SC2, but I'm kind of torn, as I don't want the future of BW put in jeopardy.

I don't think that there's any real reason that they both couldn't exist under KeSPA, but any amount of change kind of worries me about how the pieces will resettle.

In any event, interesting to see how this plays out.

if you ask me KesPA doesnt want both to exist anyway

looking at it from a bussiness standpoint SC2 can make more money the only hurdle KespA has to jump is moving the BW viewers over to SC2 and they can keep the money there making now and add in all the foriegn views they can get
DMXD
Profile Joined February 2008
United States4064 Posts
March 25 2012 05:19 GMT
#596
really sad that bw has to go. On the other hand, personally it is really awesome to see flash, or JD competing in the foreign events in the future.
elt
Profile Joined July 2010
Thailand1092 Posts
March 25 2012 05:23 GMT
#597
On March 25 2012 14:00 Zato-1 wrote:

High quality videos on demand, high quality english casting for international audiences, consistently fair rulings, no shenanigans. I love Blizzard's games, and I'm loving what both GomTV and IPL are doing for SC2. KeSPA? Not so much.

As to BW vs. SC2 vs. LoL: They're all great games, people. Live and let live.


Have you checked out what OGN are doing for LoL? They've got a dedicated English stream on own3d and twitch/table set up in the studio, and a re-broadcast during weekends at what I imagine are better times for US/EU. I think this shows OGN is willing to play ball with foreign companies/viewers if they are shown that they will get something out of it. I've played a bit of every game and watch a bit of all three, but what I'll say is that OGN makes LoL look very, very good.
(Under Construction)
Rumpus
Profile Joined August 2011
United States136 Posts
March 25 2012 05:29 GMT
#598
On March 25 2012 12:44 Lysenko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2012 12:21 ZeromuS wrote:
Well, they did fire a lot of people so hopefully they work on Bnet for the expansion.


At the risk of getting off-topic (which I'll try to remedy by offering some real information in this post), the handful of layoffs on the development side don't have anything to do with where they are on Battle.net. There are some announced improvements coming in SC2:WoL 1.5, and probably more with HotS, but there's obviously a long story there.

* The original Battle.net 2.0 UI implementation, including friends list features and the custom game interface, was thrown together in pure emergency mode by a tiny development team that was pulled off working on Titan with little notice and very little time to get something done. They had no time to implement anything beyond what went into the original release, including the chat channels we got later.

* Since that team went back onto Titan as soon as SC2 shipped, it took time to get additional features like chat channels added by the developers that remained.

* The project director for Battle.net 2.0, Greg Canessa, moved on to be Activision's VP for mobile development in late 2010. I'm sure this didn't help in terms of pushing Battle.net 2.0 feature development for future projects.

* The recent snafu involving D3 community manager Bashiok's posting that D3 wasn't going to have public chat channels because of the high support cost of following up on misbehavior in them, followed by a huge community uproar and Bashiok's posting that he misspoke about that and they were already implemented, suggests to me at least that there's an internal conflict of some kind within Blizzard about whether community features like that are worth the cost on games with no subscription mechanism. Bashiok works for the support organization within Blizzard that would have to pay those costs, and the developers don't, so it sounds like there was probably some high-level push-and-pull there.

That last, by the way, is probably the biggest reason that a robust chat system hasn't been developed for SC2 or D3. At least some of the people at Blizzard view it as a very costly feature to support, absence of which won't dissuade most people from buying the game initially.

Blizzard dealt with the chat systems in games up through Warcraft 3 as a "buyer beware" kind of system. Spam? Obscene language? No problem! However, World of Warcraft gave them the budget to address those issues, and set a standard that they would address those issues, so suddenly the buyer-beware attitude doesn't seem like a viable choice for future games, even if there's no ongoing revenue stream to pay for anything better.

I also think that SC2 wasn't the sales success that they hoped it would be, so they cut back on related development to some extent. However, that's pure speculation on my part.

Edit: Don't make me the bad guy by starting a huge side conversation about the merits of bnet 2.0 in this thread. If you feel like answering at length, PM me and we can find somewhere else for that.


Well than it is certainly nice to know that Blizzard lied their asses off about getting features in "directly after launch" or "soon after..."
Grammin'
800800
Profile Joined October 2011
Afghanistan64 Posts
March 25 2012 05:41 GMT
#599
When I read the tittle: "YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YEEESSS!" This is very good news.
stevarius
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1394 Posts
March 25 2012 05:45 GMT
#600
On March 25 2012 14:16 Mazaire wrote:
nooo bw


Everything comes to an end. One day SC2 will.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if computers get to the point where they barely support games like BW without having to do pain in the ass things to ensure compatibility like other games that come to mind.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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