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Breadth of Gameplay in SC2 - Page 24

Forum Index > SC2 General
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NEW IN-GAME CHANNEL: FRB
Polygamy
Profile Joined January 2010
Austria1114 Posts
March 17 2012 08:28 GMT
#461
This is amazing. I have been thinking about this for while as wel,l but could not have wrote something this elegant. A+
ArchDC
Profile Joined May 2011
Malaysia1996 Posts
March 17 2012 08:29 GMT
#462
Nice post, agree and support!
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
March 17 2012 08:31 GMT
#463
I complete agree with your post and something I have thought to myself for a long time. Though the only problem is that Blizzard wants to cater to the more casual gamers who want faster games. I remember Browder mentioning they wanted to keep small maps because not everyone wants to play a long macro game and just play a rush game. While we can work with custom maps, at the end of the day there would have to be support coming from blizzard and I don`t think they want to deal with all the other factors by implementing something similar. One can dream though...I`d love to see this game be the best it can be and I support this.

MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
March 17 2012 08:36 GMT
#464
Still no argument made when MULEs are factored in to this...
@followMVT
Ironsights
Profile Joined January 2011
United States196 Posts
March 17 2012 08:41 GMT
#465
I read this earlier tonight and have been thinking about if for several hours now. When I get home, I may try to play a few custom games, but not having actualy partners to paly with... we shall see.

Anyway, having thought about your changes, and read some of the posts from players who have tried the maps, here are my thoughts, for what they are worth.

As I see it the races sit thus at this moment:

ZERG: Cheap units,mass production, and low infrastructure needs means that zerg's economy is capable of getting super powerful super fast. Damage has to be dealt constantly to keep the zerg in check.

PROTOSS: Super Powerful late game means that a Protoss wants to defend and tech early. Suiciding into the protoss is ill advised, but scouting is a must. Coutner the "deathball" that is coming and try like mad to reduce the Protoss ability to reproduce/tech. Harass is a must, but you have to be careful.

TERRAN: Strongest off of one base, slightly defensive early game followed up by massive potential for aggression in the mid game and a somewhat lacking late game. Economy and harass recovery are fine, but late game repopulation is slow at best. Ultimately against a terran you need to defend the agression, hit your tech desire, and wipe them away.

Having (very pporly) played some BW in the past and thought about your changes, here is what I see happening:

ZERG: The zerg's economy takes a touch longer to really get flowing. This lessens the pressure to assault the zerg early, devil be damned. However, the zerg is still a force to be reconed with, and you will still have to keep up the pressure.

PROTOSS: Reduce the income from each base means the protoss isn't going to be hitting that maxed out deathball on 2 bases and if s/he does, s/he won't be rebuilding it if you counter it. This means protoss will have to expand more, and will be slower to reach critical mass, giving zerg and terran more time to scout, harass, and prepare to counter.

TERRAN: Terran are the strongest on a low economy, so their early game really won't change too much. Mid to late game they will have to expand as opposed to hoping for the "all-in" off of two bases, since two bases likely won't fund a potent enough all in. This in turn means that terran late game may get a chance to be explored more thoroughly and possibly even shine.

Ultimately, it feels to me like this change could be super beneficial and I would LOVE to see it hit the PTR for a few months and possibly be implemented in HOTS, based on the results of the play testing.

A big thanks to all who took the time to analyze this and come up with a plausible solution. As a kid, I loved BW, and while I enjoy SC2, its true that it just isn't as satisfying.
Pain, like any other emotion, can be turned off. // If there can be no victory, then I shall fight forever.
ZeroWave
Profile Joined December 2011
Israel49 Posts
March 17 2012 08:46 GMT
#466
On March 17 2012 15:12 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2012 15:00 Yosho wrote:
On March 17 2012 13:45 Plexa wrote:
On March 17 2012 13:36 ZeromuS wrote:
On March 17 2012 13:15 Plexa wrote:
You already know my viewpoint on this barrin, I maintain that this is a unit design problem not a problem with minerals.


Doesnt hurt to mess about with things as much as the community can though. I don't think you can argue with that in particular.

Sure we can mess around all day with mineral numbers, but that isn't going to change how retarded colossus make the protoss matchups for instance.


I don't think you're being very productive to the conversation. I think you're trying to start an unbalance thread when we are trying to find alternatives.

I've played some 6 mins 1 gas maps and noticed a huge difference, it's way fun.

Believe me, me and barin have gone back and forth about this for a long time

Can you give a few examples of why you think this way?
Never give up, Never surrender.
Nabes
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1800 Posts
March 17 2012 09:10 GMT
#467
It feels weird to just drop up to 2 patches and 1 gas for sc2; i just don't see it working out. I would much prefer testing workers mining 4 minerals instead of 5 per trip. If you went the 6 mineral nodes per base route, that would mean you would be fully saturated before you drop your gateway/barracks; doesn't that just feel weird?
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
March 17 2012 09:19 GMT
#468
maybe it's because I never played bw, but I don't really see much of a problem with sc2 at all, I think the game is still as good as when it came out and there are still gradual innovations. in terms of the proposed changes, it would be cool as a separate, private ladder thing, but I don't think it needs to be implemented.
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
somatic
Profile Joined June 2010
Australia34 Posts
March 17 2012 09:22 GMT
#469
great post
hopefully map makers start picking up on this and reducing the minerals per base and we start seeing it implemented in major tournaments thus providing an arena for higher level players whilst allowing blizzard to cater to the masses via ladder or what have you.
Hinanawi
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2250 Posts
March 17 2012 09:26 GMT
#470
If there's one lesson to be learned from Brood War, it's that mapmakers are much better than Blizzard at both game balancing and producing exciting matches.

I haven't watched much SC2 at all since GOM S3, but I'll be giving it another shot as a spectator when HotS comes out and I really hope they listen to what you're saying here.
Favorite progamers (in order): Flash, Stork, Violet, Sea. ||| Get better soon, Violet!
Akio00
Profile Joined January 2011
United States98 Posts
March 17 2012 09:28 GMT
#471
Great job with a well thought out post. I have one major issue with it.

Why do we need to compare it to Brood War? It's a completely different game. Quit trying to turn SC2 into BW2. Different games have different mechanics, strategies, etc. For once, I would like to see an opinion on how to "fix" the game not bring up non-relevant comparisons to BW.
Hinanawi
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2250 Posts
March 17 2012 09:32 GMT
#472
On March 17 2012 18:28 Akio00 wrote:
Great job with a well thought out post. I have one major issue with it.

Why do we need to compare it to Brood War? It's a completely different game. Quit trying to turn SC2 into BW2. Different games have different mechanics, strategies, etc. For once, I would like to see an opinion on how to "fix" the game not bring up non-relevant comparisons to BW.


Why would you NOT want to compare it to Brood War? Brood War has lived and thrived for 14 years. It's THE success story of RTS games.

Do you want SC2 to be the next Brood War, or do you want it to just be the shiny thing that fills up a few years until the next blockbuster RTS game, or worse, allows MOBA games like LoL to erase RTS from the competitive scene entirely?
Favorite progamers (in order): Flash, Stork, Violet, Sea. ||| Get better soon, Violet!
tymt
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden293 Posts
March 17 2012 09:42 GMT
#473
Excellent post and idea. Will test these maps when I get off work
iiGreetings
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada563 Posts
March 17 2012 09:43 GMT
#474
Great read, but im not sure i like the idea of small maps to be honest. Economy management and drops at 6 bases at once, 3 base timings and variety of different tech pathes all make big maps great. Those are my points for it, but more micro is definatly correct but then again the meta game would probably go back to 4gate or something and 7roach. But the everything else was really well done. Read entire thing ^.^
Adapt and React I MKP, PartinG, EffOrt ♥
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
March 17 2012 09:44 GMT
#475
fuckin hit the nail on the head. i cant wait to see where this goes
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
sleepyjuice
Profile Joined March 2012
6 Posts
March 17 2012 09:48 GMT
#476
I'm really wanting to see some VODs for this. Or replays. Anyone posting or streaming it?
Qntc.YuMe
Profile Joined January 2011
United States792 Posts
March 17 2012 09:53 GMT
#477
so... i want to see mapmakers test it out with loser mineral nodes to see how much things really do change
Perseverance
Profile Joined February 2010
Japan2800 Posts
March 17 2012 09:59 GMT
#478
Holy shit that was a lot of reading!

Raise supply cap to 250 and 7m1hyg = awesome for esports imo

C'mon HotS!!!
<3 Moonbattles
stfouri
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland272 Posts
March 17 2012 10:01 GMT
#479
I would like to see some of these maps with less mineral patches being played on pro-level before Id make my judgement.
At first glance it looks good, but you can't deny the fact that one of the races might turn out imbalanced.
You can allready see it with new patches how the smallest of changes can swing the balance alot and change tactics used.
This is would be actually pretty big comparing to lets say protoss upgrades costing less (and that was pretty big).
EdSlyB
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Portugal1621 Posts
March 17 2012 10:02 GMT
#480
By the way: If you have a EU account or know anyone with one, you should also post in the EU Bnet forums. You would have a bigger coverage and I would actually be able to upvote it because I can't log in a character in US Bnet.
You would be showing your point in two major hubs.
aka Wardo
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