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Diamond Zerg Replay Pack - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Phays
Profile Joined January 2012
Sweden162 Posts
March 10 2012 23:07 GMT
#61
Don't mind the haters, would have loved this if I was a lower league player!
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
March 10 2012 23:13 GMT
#62
Jeez, so many people have nothing better to do other than scrutinize someone for posting some replays when they aren't GM. Can't you guys just post something nice or not post at all? There's no harm in him posting them, and even if most people won't look at them, there's no reason to be so insulting.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Doomblaze
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1292 Posts
March 10 2012 23:50 GMT
#63
On March 11 2012 04:45 FinalForm wrote:
Calling romelako stupid and making assumptions about his skill level isn't a real great way to start a thread.

Although I applaud your effort into releasing a replay pack, I strongly urge up and coming players to focus more on pro play rather than amateur. Studying NA Diamond play comes with the risks of picking up bad habits which take time to reverse.

For analogy, as a middle school music student learning the trumpet , I can receive lessons from high school trumpet player, or I can receive lessons from someone who plays for the Boston Philharmonic Orchestra. The high school student might give me some tips and tricks, but he may have bad posture or poor breathing technique that I will mimic.

NA Diamond is to Stephano as High School Player is to Boston Philharmonic is a pretty accurate statement I believe.



It's not a particularly good analogy. I have friends who are better at violin teach me stuff occasionally, and they notice 4-5 things im doing wrong. My private teacher is one of the best teachers in michigan, if not the best. At any given time he can point out 20 things I can improve at. The problem is that I can't work on more than 2-3 things at once or other parts of my play start to suffer, so while my private teacher is much, much better, they're both extremely helpful.

If someone is looking to improve, and hes in like gold, both this guys replays and a korean GM zergs replays will be helpful. Obviously the professional zerg will be better, but the OP is trying to contribute to the community, and everyone is shutting him down. This is why people never post replay packs on TL.
In Mushi we trust
InseKtSC2
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States173 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-11 00:08:39
March 11 2012 00:08 GMT
#64
On March 11 2012 08:50 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2012 04:45 FinalForm wrote:
Calling romelako stupid and making assumptions about his skill level isn't a real great way to start a thread.

Although I applaud your effort into releasing a replay pack, I strongly urge up and coming players to focus more on pro play rather than amateur. Studying NA Diamond play comes with the risks of picking up bad habits which take time to reverse.

For analogy, as a middle school music student learning the trumpet , I can receive lessons from high school trumpet player, or I can receive lessons from someone who plays for the Boston Philharmonic Orchestra. The high school student might give me some tips and tricks, but he may have bad posture or poor breathing technique that I will mimic.

NA Diamond is to Stephano as High School Player is to Boston Philharmonic is a pretty accurate statement I believe.



It's not a particularly good analogy. I have friends who are better at violin teach me stuff occasionally, and they notice 4-5 things im doing wrong. My private teacher is one of the best teachers in michigan, if not the best. At any given time he can point out 20 things I can improve at. The problem is that I can't work on more than 2-3 things at once or other parts of my play start to suffer, so while my private teacher is much, much better, they're both extremely helpful.

If someone is looking to improve, and hes in like gold, both this guys replays and a korean GM zergs replays will be helpful. Obviously the professional zerg will be better, but the OP is trying to contribute to the community, and everyone is shutting him down. This is why people never post replay packs on TL.


I kind of like some of the negative responses lol its amusing. This thread actually earned me my first hate mail via PM as well. Very nice stuff hahaha.
InseKt North American Zerg Player Facebook: facebook.com/InseKtSC2 Twitter: @InseKtSC2 Stream: twitch.tv/InseKtSC2
Firesilver
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom1190 Posts
March 11 2012 00:18 GMT
#65
He can post his replay pack freely, If you personally don't think it would benefit you then why bother posting, no-one cares if you don't want to watch them, if some people do want to see the replays they can get them, I'm appalled people are actually derailing this thread over it.
Caster at IMBA.tv -- www.twitter.com/IMBAFiresilver -- www.youtube.com/FiresilverTV
Natespank
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada449 Posts
March 11 2012 00:32 GMT
#66
Trolls...

To the OP:

I advise you against striving for Masters. You should just try to play as well and as perfectly as possible, treat it like your art. Focusing on gaining a title saps your focus on improvement- if I could, I would hide my league from my view, maybe check on it every 3-6 months.
Arco
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2090 Posts
March 11 2012 00:35 GMT
#67
New players should watch pro replays too. The point of watching replays is to see an opening done to perfection, and how that build goes up against another build in x matchup.

Not trying to hate, just saying that it's detrimental for new players to look at a diamond level player and think it's the "right thing to do."
xxgeffxx
Profile Joined September 2011
United States119 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-11 01:30:42
March 11 2012 01:29 GMT
#68
to the op:
I hate rapid share
I love the bm in the first game haha.

to the whole watching nonpros debate:
When I was silver, I watched fxo-optikzero and ailuj before she became popular. Ailuj was and probably still is diamond but watching her execute optik's builds just not as fast helped me to understand optiks builds better and what I could expect from lower diamonds and plats.
There are a few reasons watching people lower than masters are sometimes better than watching pros:
Since the metagame is much different at gm than it is at diamond, gms can get away with some builds that would be suicide at lower levels(ie nexus first). MVP tails does funky builds(no scouting, 3bases before robo) that let them stay atop of the KR ladder because not only do their opponents do builds like 1rax expo, allow them to get away with it, but also their micro is far superior to the point where their units can make up their deficiencies with less numbers. It is for this reason I don't think lower levels should try to do builds such as Nexus first vs terran, but rather outdated builds that plats/golds use such as 3g expo where their 5minute expo beats the 12minute expo found in silver and below because almost all terran that level go overboard on turtling from a possible 4gate.
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
March 11 2012 01:57 GMT
#69
lol, if you dont want to watch him dont. seriously, raging at him for nothing.

Would you kick a guy in the balls for giving to charity?

He's trying to give people some help, doing no harm and just doing his thing. You guys are ridiculous.

Good initiative dude.
Useless wet fish.
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
March 11 2012 02:07 GMT
#70
I have an idea. If you're in Masters league and think him posting his replays was a waste of time, why don't you do the lower league guy the favor of critiquing them for him, and letting him know what to work on.

I've always been a fan of the "if you have nothing positive to contribute, don't contribute at all" mentality.
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
Zerevorr
Profile Joined February 2011
Austria23 Posts
March 11 2012 02:23 GMT
#71
On March 11 2012 11:07 Durp wrote:
I have an idea. If you're in Masters league and think him posting his replays was a waste of time, why don't you do the lower league guy the favor of critiquing them for him, and letting him know what to work on.

I've always been a fan of the "if you have nothing positive to contribute, don't contribute at all" mentality.


Yeah this "if you have nothing positive to contribute, don'T contribute at all" mentality is pretty awesome. Who needs criticism or feedback? Lets buy some pink sunglasses and sing reggea songs while sitting in the dirt.

In my personal opinion, there isn't much a bronzy/gold player can learn while watching this replays, they are probably going to copy mistakes or bad gameplay. And why would you want to do that when there are enough replays from better players where you can see how it's done right from the beginning.
Sylailene
Profile Joined February 2011
91 Posts
March 11 2012 02:48 GMT
#72
Bunch of hate for no reason, most I'm sure most bronze-platinum people would want to be high masters, but all they care about right now is getting up a league, one at a time, and things like this helps them. Even if it isn't high level play they learn more basic concepts and builds, once they hit diamond like the person in the replay pack, then they can start watching pro level replays.

I mean honestly a lot of pro players rely on game knowledge and mechanics, while they may gain some game knowledge watching pros, the most they will learn is that they can't micro like MKP or stephano and give up, best to take it at a gradual pace, if you know what i mean ^.^
InseKtSC2
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States173 Posts
March 11 2012 03:18 GMT
#73
I've received a lot of awesome feedback from you all, thank you!
InseKt North American Zerg Player Facebook: facebook.com/InseKtSC2 Twitter: @InseKtSC2 Stream: twitch.tv/InseKtSC2
InseKtSC2
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States173 Posts
March 20 2012 17:33 GMT
#74
New Pack uploaded! check top of original post to see!
InseKt North American Zerg Player Facebook: facebook.com/InseKtSC2 Twitter: @InseKtSC2 Stream: twitch.tv/InseKtSC2
b0ub0u
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada445 Posts
March 20 2012 17:51 GMT
#75
Thanks for all of this! I am plat and for me it's just perfect watching replays of a diamond Zerg.

I still watch replays and matches of pro (way too much lol) but watching diamond replays let me understand the overall gameplay at that level, what I should expect and such...

Ignore the haters... I like the idea =)
In the swarm we trust
Vul
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States685 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 17:59:11
March 20 2012 17:52 GMT
#76
On March 11 2012 07:28 InseKtSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2012 07:24 Belha wrote:
On March 11 2012 07:00 Fission wrote:
On March 11 2012 06:45 TheSubtleArt wrote:
On March 11 2012 04:47 InseKtSC2 wrote:
On March 11 2012 04:46 Caelyn0101 wrote:
On March 11 2012 04:43 ObliviousNA wrote:
I like the idea, it's a lot easier for a gold-league zerg to watch and emulate a diamond. Often times people just get overwhelmed by the GM replay packs and fall victim to a 'run before you can walk' scenario.


While i kind of agree that people could be overwhelmed with GM replays, Honestly trying to mimic diamond players isn't something you want to do. Like i said before while there are some things that they might do correctly, there are alot of things that are incorrect, and for any low level players it would be too hard to differentiate between the things they should mimic and the things they shouldn't



The point isn't to mimic my game play at all.

It is to get a basis and understanding of what diamond level players generally do.

People seem to be misinterpreting this as if I am a pro that has posted a replay pack. The only use for this is to compare play styles, not mimic my play.

Except diamond players are terrible and almost never play the game properly. I think you're way better off learning how to play properly and then getting your mechanics good enough to execute at a masters level instead of basing decisions on players who dont do anything properly and then having to relearn everything once you promote.


There's an argument to be made for incremental learning. I tend to visualize sc2 knowledge as a large fuzzy collection of ideas, where low level players have only the fuzziest and vaguest idea what the notions are, and have no concept of how they relate to each other. As you improve, the ideas/concepts sharpen,and you start being capable of seeing and understanding relations between the concepts.

Under this model of learning, it makes perfect sense for a silver or gold player to look at the replay of a diamond player, because they may be able to discern features that are important to them, but are not overwhelmed by the immense informational-density of a pro-level build.

The whole idea that a low level player can watch a pro-replay and make any sense of it is incredibly misguided, in my opinion. The sorts of inferences and conclusion one can make after watching a replay is intrinsically related to the amount of knowledge already possessed. If you don't know anything, your ability to extract relevant information (to your play) is negligible.


I do not agree with any of this.

I've never played a rts seriously before Sc2 (just playing with no care for winning).
I started in the release, as silver.
Nothing helped me more than pro replays, nothing is even close. Even as a uber scruby gold player.

Why? Pretty simple:

Those replays allow me see the proper response and folow ups (and excecution) to "things" that happen in games.
Those help me to realise what decisions work and what do not, what is the BEST response of all for every situation.
Nothing can be more misguiding that a non-proper response to "things" (events during a game).

I'm now a high masters player, and now i understand how (most, every day i find new stuff) build works and how to react to certain situations, my skill celling now is mostly apm (i'm so slow), and fast/proper excecution of previously studied theory; but for that i need a lot of practice; the correct theory, as i said, i take it form the guys those who spend countless hours of analysis and study, aka THE PROS.

That's why posting a low level replays is bad (not a sin, lol) , but compared to pro replays, even for low level players, because the problem with those is the GAME UNDERSTANDING (even with lo apm you can reach masters, decisions and execution is the key). So a diam replays as a learning tool, are indeed misleading (and imo not recommended) for any player.

PS.: I was there, i was silver, but analysis, can be done by any level, you just have to watch and learn from the people who know what is doing.



He stated that there can be an argument in support of incremental learning. Your argument is in support of professional replay analysis that leads towards improvement. Both arguments are valid.

There's more than one way to solve a problem.

For me personally, I started in Bronze and went to Gold just from playing games and watching tournaments, no replays.


I absolutely agree with this. There doesn't have to be just one way to learn to play SC2. Should you watch pro replays, Day9, the Artosis Hour and so on? Definitely, that will probably be the best way for you to learn what's ideal, and that's what you should attempt to base your play on. I think it's actually inaccurate to say that lower league players can't learn from that stuff, I know I did.

That said, as a silver league player it can also be beneficial to take a look at the difference in play, not just between the silver league and professional players, but also between the silver league and diamond/masters. That allows you to gauge yourself against the caliber of play in leagues that you're realistically trying to get into. To make a long story short, it gives you a tangible idea of what diamond league play will look like, for a player who isn't necessarily that close yet.

Should you take close notes and try to emulate the play? No, and the OP has been clear about that. But there's nothing wrong with loading up a few of these replays if you're a lower league player.
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 18:02:54
March 20 2012 18:02 GMT
#77
The problem with threads like this, and the reasoning always put forth by the OP of such threads, is that it is a slippery slope. If we allow diamonds to post replay packs so that lower leagues can learn from them, why can't we allow gold players to put replay packs up so silver players can learn? And then the silver players will put replay packs up, and etc.

It's just pointless. NA masters players aren't even that good compared to pros.
Vul
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States685 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-20 18:18:22
March 20 2012 18:16 GMT
#78
On March 21 2012 03:02 Xanbatou wrote:
The problem with threads like this, and the reasoning always put forth by the OP of such threads, is that it is a slippery slope. If we allow diamonds to post replay packs so that lower leagues can learn from them, why can't we allow gold players to put replay packs up so silver players can learn? And then the silver players will put replay packs up, and etc.

It's just pointless. NA masters players aren't even that good compared to pros.


But why's that a problem? People post whatever they want (as long they format it the right way in the thread, etc.) and if people want to download and discuss them, they can, if they don't, they won't. I don't see a problem being generated from this thread, for example, aside from people choosing to be overly critical at times.

In regards to organization, imo there should be a Replay Pack and/or Replay Analysis subform under SC2 anyway, regardless of whether bronze-masters league players decide to post replay packs. I'm not sure where the proper place is to make recommendations on TL, but maybe that's a recommendation the community needs to make in response to your concerns and for general organization?
BlackGosu
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1046 Posts
March 20 2012 19:28 GMT
#79
keep it up op. as long as one person is willing to learn, i don't see the problem at all.
Jar Jar Binks
TheNessman
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4158 Posts
March 20 2012 19:45 GMT
#80
Thank you very much! I will watch these and try to improve from them ! and also as terran too, cause i play random.

If you're looking for fun T builds you should think about going ALL AIR . imo its viable to at least platinum
~~! youtube.com/xmungam1 !~~
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