EPTDiamond Zerg Replay Pack - Page 3
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
InseKtSC2
United States173 Posts
| ||
|
Galamoz
United States16 Posts
I was recently promoted to diamond not too long ago and I'm really having a tough time there. Hopefully this will give me a bit of insight as to what other zergs are doing and what I'm missing. ^^ | ||
|
InseKtSC2
United States173 Posts
On March 11 2012 06:09 Galamoz wrote: Thanks for the upload! I was recently promoted to diamond not too long ago and I'm really having a tough time there. Hopefully this will give me a bit of insight as to what other zergs are doing and what I'm missing. ^^ No problem! There aren't many ZvT replays since I haven't gotten much of that match up this season so far, but I hope you find something that can assist you! | ||
|
Canadaehz
Canada59 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
|
Eshra
France1009 Posts
| ||
|
TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On March 11 2012 04:47 InseKtSC2 wrote: The point isn't to mimic my game play at all. It is to get a basis and understanding of what diamond level players generally do. People seem to be misinterpreting this as if I am a pro that has posted a replay pack. The only use for this is to compare play styles, not mimic my play. Except diamond players are terrible and almost never play the game properly. I think you're way better off learning how to play properly and then getting your mechanics good enough to execute at a masters level instead of basing decisions on players who dont do anything properly and then having to relearn everything once you promote. | ||
|
houseurmusic
United States544 Posts
| ||
|
InseKtSC2
United States173 Posts
On March 11 2012 06:45 TheSubtleArt wrote: Except diamond players are terrible and almost never play the game properly. I think you're way better off learning how to play properly and then getting your mechanics good enough to execute at a masters level instead of basing decisions on players who dont do anything properly and then having to relearn everything once you promote. Generalizations often make for an invalid argument. | ||
|
Fission
Canada1184 Posts
On March 11 2012 06:45 TheSubtleArt wrote: Except diamond players are terrible and almost never play the game properly. I think you're way better off learning how to play properly and then getting your mechanics good enough to execute at a masters level instead of basing decisions on players who dont do anything properly and then having to relearn everything once you promote. There's an argument to be made for incremental learning. I tend to visualize sc2 knowledge as a large fuzzy collection of ideas, where low level players have only the fuzziest and vaguest idea what the notions are, and have no concept of how they relate to each other. As you improve, the ideas/concepts sharpen,and you start being capable of seeing and understanding relations between the concepts. You also gain new ways of looking at the same information - new mental tools, in a sense. The kind of things I can see in a replay of SlayersMMA are not nearly as detailed as the sort of things IMMVP will see, for example. Just because we observe the same replay doesn't mean you can conclude that we are equally capable of interpreting it. Under this model of learning, it makes perfect sense for a silver or gold player to look at the replay of a diamond player, because they may be able to discern features that are important to them, because the level of play is relatively similar to theirs, but sharper in some important way. This distinction may stand out in an obvious way to the lower-level player, and their assimilation of the knowledge will be an improvement. In contrast, they may be overwhelmed by the immense informational-density of a pro-level build, and be unable to see any relation to their play because of how different it is. The whole idea that a low level player can watch a pro-replay and make any sense of it is incredibly misguided, in my opinion. The sorts of inferences and conclusion one can make after watching a replay is intrinsically related to the amount of knowledge already possessed. If you don't know anything, your ability to extract relevant information (to your play) is negligible. | ||
|
InseKtSC2
United States173 Posts
On March 11 2012 07:00 Fission wrote: There's an argument to be made for incremental learning. I tend to visualize sc2 knowledge as a large fuzzy collection of ideas, where low level players have only the fuzziest and vaguest idea what the notions are, and have no concept of how they relate to each other. As you improve, the ideas/concepts sharpen,and you start being capable of seeing and understanding relations between the concepts. Under this model of learning, it makes perfect sense for a silver or gold player to look at the replay of a diamond player, because they may be able to discern features that are important to them, but are not overwhelmed by the immense informational-density of a pro-level build. The whole idea that a low level player can watch a pro-replay and make any sense of it is incredibly misguided, in my opinion. The sorts of inferences and conclusion one can make after watching a high-level replay is intrinsically related to the amount of knowledge already possessed. If you don't know anything, your capability to extract relevant information (to your play) is negligible. I completely agree, very well explained concept. | ||
|
DeVx
United States98 Posts
On March 11 2012 06:45 TheSubtleArt wrote: Except diamond players are terrible and almost never play the game properly. I think you're way better off learning how to play properly and then getting your mechanics good enough to execute at a masters level instead of basing decisions on players who dont do anything properly and then having to relearn everything once you promote. I don't think you're fully understanding why he's posting replays of his diamond play. Being at high Plat, I'll admit it I'm not any good, at all. But why do you care if this individual is trying to help the community by offering his replays as a way to learn? It seems you think that anyone who decides to post replays should be Masters or GM. But as a low tier player, their builds/executions/timing don't make any sense to me, and again I'm fine with that too. I'm still new and I'll learn it eventually, but I'm a new player and I can't be expected to learn a build order or their methodology behind their game play. It would be like skipping a step; I wouldn't understand why which would lead to confusion and frustration. Learning from a Diamond player, I can sort of put my place in his shoes and break down what he's doing because he's in the same boat as I am. Being disrespectful to someone who's only intention is to help, makes you seem so simple and narrow minded on what the true intentions are. | ||
|
NoctemSC
United States771 Posts
You really feel the need to talk down to someone who is just trying to provide some content for the community? Good job, do what you enjoy man. | ||
|
InseKtSC2
United States173 Posts
Thanks for everyone who gave me positive feedback, and thanks for the negative feedback as well, since it serves as a free thread bump  | ||
|
DeVx
United States98 Posts
| ||
|
InseKtSC2
United States173 Posts
On March 11 2012 07:17 DeVx wrote: I do have a request, though I have not gone through all your replays, I wouldn't mind seeing a 2base all in ZvP. Right now ZvP is my weakest match up. Okay I'll try to put some in the next release. I play Zerg very defensively and strive to get to the late game in most cases. Since most Protoss players have been FFEing recently, it's easy to put your third down as soon as the 4:30 mark, which often leads me into a macro game that overwhelms the opponent in army numbers. Basically most of my ZvPs revolve around the style DRG introduced into the MLG Winter Arena with his mid game Roach Ling aggression off 3 base and then tech switching into Mutalisks in overwhelming numbers. Of course however, I cannot execute the build in the same caliber as DRG. But I'll try to mix it up a bit in the next batch! | ||
|
Djeez
543 Posts
| ||
|
Belha
Italy2850 Posts
On March 11 2012 07:00 Fission wrote: There's an argument to be made for incremental learning. I tend to visualize sc2 knowledge as a large fuzzy collection of ideas, where low level players have only the fuzziest and vaguest idea what the notions are, and have no concept of how they relate to each other. As you improve, the ideas/concepts sharpen,and you start being capable of seeing and understanding relations between the concepts. Under this model of learning, it makes perfect sense for a silver or gold player to look at the replay of a diamond player, because they may be able to discern features that are important to them, but are not overwhelmed by the immense informational-density of a pro-level build. The whole idea that a low level player can watch a pro-replay and make any sense of it is incredibly misguided, in my opinion. The sorts of inferences and conclusion one can make after watching a replay is intrinsically related to the amount of knowledge already possessed. If you don't know anything, your ability to extract relevant information (to your play) is negligible. I do not agree with any of this. I've never played a rts seriously before Sc2 (just playing with no care for winning). I started in the release, as silver. Nothing helped me more than pro replays, nothing is even close. Even as a uber scruby gold player. Why? Pretty simple: Those replays allow me see the proper response and folow ups (and excecution) to "things" that happen in games. Those help me to realise what decisions work and what do not, what is the BEST response of all for every situation. Nothing can be more misguiding that a non-proper response to "things" (events during a game). I'm now a high masters player, and now i understand (every day i learn new stuff, fo curse) how builds work and how to react to certain situations, my skill celling now is mostly apm (i'm so slow), and fast/proper excecution of previously studied theory; but for that i need just a lot of practice; the correct theory, as i said, i take it form the guys those who spend countless hours of analysis and study, aka THE PROS. That's why posting a low level replays is bad (not a sin, lol) compared to pro replays, even for low level players. The problem in lower leagues is mostly GAME UNDERSTANDING (even with lo apm you can reach masters, decisions and then execution, are the key). So a diam replays as a learning tool, are indeed misleading (and imo not recommended) for any player. PS.: I was there, i was silver, but analysis, can be done by any level, you just have to watch and learn from the people who know what is doing. | ||
|
InseKtSC2
United States173 Posts
On March 11 2012 07:24 Belha wrote: I do not agree with any of this. I've never played a rts seriously before Sc2 (just playing with no care for winning). I started in the release, as silver. Nothing helped me more than pro replays, nothing is even close. Even as a uber scruby gold player. Why? Pretty simple: Those replays allow me see the proper response and folow ups (and excecution) to "things" that happen in games. Those help me to realise what decisions work and what do not, what is the BEST response of all for every situation. Nothing can be more misguiding that a non-proper response to "things" (events during a game). I'm now a high masters player, and now i understand how (most, every day i find new stuff) build works and how to react to certain situations, my skill celling now is mostly apm (i'm so slow), and fast/proper excecution of previously studied theory; but for that i need a lot of practice; the correct theory, as i said, i take it form the guys those who spend countless hours of analysis and study, aka THE PROS. That's why posting a low level replays is bad (not a sin, lol) , but compared to pro replays, even for low level players, because the problem with those is the GAME UNDERSTANDING (even with lo apm you can reach masters, decisions and execution is the key). So a diam replays as a learning tool, are indeed misleading (and imo not recommended) for any player. PS.: I was there, i was silver, but analysis, can be done by any level, you just have to watch and learn from the people who know what is doing. He stated that there can be an argument in support of incremental learning. Your argument is in support of professional replay analysis that leads towards improvement. Both arguments are valid. There's more than one way to solve a problem. For me personally, I started in Bronze and went to Gold just from playing games and watching tournaments, no replays. | ||
|
SeinGalton
South Africa387 Posts
| ||
|
InseKtSC2
United States173 Posts
21 people have downloaded the replay pack and 2100 people have viewed this thread  | ||
| ||
