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Dave-o
United States26 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:31 jester- wrote: This type of individual is the reason this incident got blown so far out of proportion. No. If we want the mainstreen to reconize SC2. These type of people cant represent our community. | ||
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Chessz
United States644 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:24 DoubleReed wrote: Man, lay off the armchair sociology bullshit. There is no evidence orb is racist rather than like any other Internet trolling angry guy that is using foul language to be as bombastic as possible. ffs orb is a jazz musician! A few things. 1) "armchair" is ad hominem, pejorative, functionally meaningless and unresponsive to any claim in my post. FYI, I am in an armchair right now, with a blanket, and tea. 2) also these claims are not sociological, they are psychological, with sociological implications. even though there is very minimal barrier between individuals and society, also the warrants for these claims have solid evidence. 3) STOP equating things like "racist" as nouns! I don't care whether or not orb is racist, i'm saying what he said was racist! Categorizing people this way serves to perpetuate an image of "who is a racist" and invokes hyperbolic images both ways ("no way I'm not racist!" even though something said or a behavior by that person could very well have been racist, or to be considered "racist" you have to be a hood wearing White supremacist).. it's pragmatically counterproductive to make our language dichotomous this way because human beings and their behavior are more complex and not binary in the slightest. 4) please read the article before responding to what I'm saying, there is evidence. Well substantiated and demonstrated over 6 pages. If spending the ~15 min it takes to read a text is too jarring in spite of possibly increasing your understanding then we have no basis even discussing here. I really wish we could stop the rampant anti-intellectual tendencies involved in this discussion. edit:: i see you didn't actually use racist as a noun here, but that idea still seems to be at the center of the issue for some people, somehow caught up debating if "saying nigger = a racist" or orb's context if it matters that he's white, or if rappers use it or whatever.. The reason this had such a reaction is not because of these trivial qualifications, it's about our community and culture and setting a modern precedent for our discourse | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:29 Defacer wrote: And Mel Gibson likes bagels and lox. Come on man, if you're going to disagree with somebody try a little harder and actually read their post. What? I did. Everyone knows how the Internet works. People say the most vile things to get a rise out of their opponents. Its a blatant kind of trolling. Everyone knows about it. It's stupid and we shouldn't condone it. But this is absurd. He's already lost his job and people are still publically attacking him. And this guys sayin it's all ok with this white mans burden bullshit. As if we have no idea how trolling and the Internet works. Edit: Don't you dare call me anti-intellectual on this. You're choosing to ignore the real way trolling works. The only reason you raised this issue is because he's white. But those kinds of comments come from black people too because that's the way trolling works. | ||
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EuroRabbit
United States39 Posts
On March 10 2012 03:35 stevarius wrote: Holy shit, put down the pitchfork and sharpening stone. This whole scenario is a tragedy that shows how the SC2 community can't handle drama. Its shows that reddit is full of drama, and has no respect for anyone. This could have been just handled by going through the proper channels, but instead reddit decided to start digging up dirt on Orb and then posting it all over reddit to make him look bad. Yes what he said was wrong, but it shouldn't have been handled this way at all. And then take the example of Dragon and reddit, they absolutely love the guy because he is so "entertaining" to watch stream when he sits there and trolls people. Yet after he cheats, then lies to boxer and team slayers his post is given 600+ upvotes when he gets picked up by Millennium. The amount of favoritism they show is disgusting. This is why reddit will always remain the ugly stepchild of the SC2 community. I for one think they should not be part of it, its obvious that they are not mature enough to handle themselves with the power they have. They simply act like children. | ||
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Chessz
United States644 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:46 DoubleReed wrote: What? I did. Everyone knows how the Internet works. People say the most vile things to get a rise out of their opponents. Its a blatant kind of trolling. Everyone knows about it. It's stupid and we shouldn't condone it. But this is absurd. He's already lost his job and people are still publically attacking him. And this guys sayin it's all ok with this white mans burden bullshit. As if we have no idea how trolling and the Internet works. Edit: Don't you dare call me anti-intellectual on this. You're choosing to ignore the real way trolling works. The only reason you raised this issue is because he's white. But those kinds of comments come from black people too because that's the way trolling works. You really think orb was just "trolling?" That's what this all equates to? You don't think it's revealing that he was trying to say "the most vile thing" and he called his opponent a nigger? And that he has a repeated history of this? And I'm only pointing this out because he's white? Just curious, what do black people say when they're trolling? The internet is not some autonomous playland where our discursive roles or trends change, save for the fact that anonymity brings out the worst in people sometimes. and that's exactly what i'm talking about | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:59 Chessz wrote: You really think orb was just "trolling?" That's what this all equates to? You don't think it's revealing that he was trying to say "the most vile thing" and he called his opponent a nigger? And that he has a repeated history of this? And I'm only pointing this out because he's white? Just curious, what do black people say when they're trolling? The internet is not some autonomous playland where our discursive roles or trends change, save for the fact that anonymity brings out the worst in people sometimes. and that's exactly what i'm talking about Black people troll the exact same way. They'll insult someone with the n word just as easily. Because youre trying to be as bombastic and offensive as possible (which is obviously what he meant by "the most vile thing" line you idiot). This is obvious. Blatant. In your face. Oh but this troll happens to be white so he must be racist. Of course. | ||
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cutler
Germany609 Posts
I hope that people will learn from this and stop saying stuff like that if they rage/bm etc. Some good results would be nice... I know that orb is a caster... | ||
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chowZilla
Canada57 Posts
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Chessz
United States644 Posts
On March 10 2012 06:05 DoubleReed wrote: Black people troll the exact same way. They'll insult someone with the n word just as easily. Because youre trying to be as bombastic and offensive as possible (which is obviously what he meant by "the most vile thing" line you idiot). This is obvious. Blatant. In your face. Oh but this troll happens to be white so he must be racist. Of course. I'm almost not sure if you're trolling yourself. First you generalize black people: "Black people troll the exact same way. They'll insult someone with the n word just as easily." somehow thinking that if a black person says it the communicative context is the same as if a white person says it, just because the desire of both messages is to be hurtful. And then you try to generalize the discourse of every person "trolling," for example if I wanted to say "the most vile thing" I wouldn't use the word nigger unless I knew the person was black, and then I would be saying something racist. It's immature to rely on these words to prop up the "offensiveness" of a statement because there are 1000s of other ways to describe someone's stupidity, incapacity, etc. In addition to your stance being asinine, I feel like you aren't reading what I'm saying, it's not about whether or not orb is racist. Nobody here thinks that orb is an active, explicitly racist person. But the words he used were racist. Also, stop using the word troll to encompass all kinds of hateful behavior, that's not even what it means in the first place. I don't really give a shit if orb is white, I just recognize that that makes him more susceptible to implicit biases about his own race and others, and you and I too share those biases (I think I can reasonably assume you're white), and they are inextricably linked to our diction and behavior. I don't really give a fuck if orb is white. If you're caught up in thinking that's what this reaction is about.. well.. I just don't know man. Here are some links again including the original SA article that is very revealing http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=buried-prejudice-the-bigot-in-your-brain http://americansforamericanvalues.org/unconsciousbias/ and some blogs for more perspective http://blog.soros.org/2011/12/implicit-bias-and-social-justice/ http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2007/10/im-not-racist.html | ||
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kYem
United Kingdom412 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:49 EuroRabbit wrote: Its shows that reddit is full of drama, and has no respect for anyone. This could have been just handled by going through the proper channels, but instead reddit decided to start digging up dirt on Orb and then posting it all over reddit to make him look bad. Yes what he said was wrong, but it shouldn't have been handled this way at all. And then take the example of Dragon and reddit, they absolutely love the guy because he is so "entertaining" to watch stream when he sits there and trolls people. Yet after he cheats, then lies to boxer and team slayers his post is given 600+ upvotes when he gets picked up by Millennium. The amount of favoritism they show is disgusting. This is why reddit will always remain the ugly stepchild of the SC2 community. I for one think they should not be part of it, its obvious that they are not mature enough to handle themselves with the power they have. They simply act like children. that's exactly how i feel about reddit, well said | ||
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iDThePlayer
Austria53 Posts
Plus the people that it is racists towards do use it A LOT themselves. At least the ones I am friends with. While I personally don't use the word (mainly because I feel it sounds rather silly), if one gets angry, and he just needs to vent, then just leave him be. Nobody would care if it was just some random guy on the ladder. You would laugh at him for getting all angry and upset and troll him, instead of having a huge discussion about this. Maybe I am completely wrong and just feel sorry that Orb is getting shot down. Yeah, he lied. We all do when we are afraid of being caught for something we know was wrong and something we regret. Poor guy doesn't deserve all this just because some people on reddit couldn't leave it be. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
people are tards for not understanding what rage/venting is. esports does not have to be all uptight and anal to be professional/successful. | ||
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Revelatus
United States183 Posts
However, people need to move on from this and stop dwelling on negative stuff. I hope this was a wake up call for you to grow up a bit, and I wish you the best in the future. | ||
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ShamTao
United States419 Posts
Why does the word nigger have to stay? People say that it's continually given its boundaries as a racial slur, which is what it was designed for, and that this is a bad thing. I haven't really formulated a full opinion on that. But for people who keep insisting on its use...why? There are plenty of other words to use. I'd rather see it eradicated entirely than have its meaning desensitized. | ||
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iDThePlayer
Austria53 Posts
On March 10 2012 06:50 ShamTao wrote: When people argue context and defend the use of the word nigger, when they say that it's lost some of it's meaning and yada yada, constantly defending it's use, my question is this: Why does the word nigger have to stay? People say that it's continually given its boundaries as a racial slur, which is what it was designed for, but for people who keep insisting on its use...why? There are plenty of other words to use. I'd rather see it eradicated entirely than have its meaning desensitized. This is where I say we need to just ignore it and not let it get to us. It stays because of incidents like this one, where people get offended by it, or at least act like it is a big deal. It serves its purpose in this case and does not have to be replaced. | ||
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Silentj16
Canada9 Posts
if you dont hold those views yourself, when you are broadcasting to the starcraft community you have to take into account the severity of your actions and the way people wil view them. its just stupid. I can understand when you say that you were clouded by rage and anger, but if thats the way you deal with anger you should at least be careful not to let the community know. at least. at most, dont be an idiot. | ||
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Nocthem
Canada71 Posts
no body will ever hire you again, piece of shit. | ||
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HardlyNever
United States1258 Posts
Is that racism? | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On March 10 2012 06:42 PhiliBiRD wrote: sucks u have to "apologize" people are tards for not understanding what rage/venting is. esports does not have to be all uptight and anal to be professional/successful. Because showing a bit of respect=uptight and anal? Goodluck finding another sport that does punish this kind of stuff. | ||
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Hantak
Chile59 Posts
Im not the one to judge you orb, but i do think your apologies are sincere, i can understand the feeling of just spitting none senses out because you are so angry that you just snap, yet you cannot be naive, sooner or later things come back kicking your door. Got to remember that no matter the context droping the so called "N bomb" is one of the worst things to do, so many people fought and still fight for this to be avoided that you cannot expect any other reaction than the harsh public judgement. I cannot help to wonder why this was brought up just recently, i bet theres someone that felt THIS was the moment to drop this, and to a degree i think he/she/it was right. If this was brought up when it happened you would have been harshly and rightfully judged by the community but the consecuences would have been much smaller. I dont hold any particular bond with you or your work, it could be said that i didnt even liked you, but i do wish you good luck, i think you did helped the community in your own way, and i hope to see you get back on the E-sports wagon, but with more maturity and energy. GG HF buddy | ||
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