EPTOrb Dismissed from Evil Geniuses Broadcasts - Page 58
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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038 Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST | ||
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yawnoC
United States3704 Posts
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ffdestiny
United States773 Posts
It's usually classified as killing. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:09 _MaKo_ wrote: I saw Alex's comment and I find it hypocritical. Idra has done it many many times over and just gets a tap on the wrist. Orb does it once and gets his career destroyed. Where is the justice in that? actually we really dont know what punishment Idra has received. Alex could be fining him every time he gets out of line for all we know. | ||
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yoten
United States57 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:11 GroundLuminous wrote: I am completely in this camp. Orb didn't even say these things as an EG employee (or under EG's employ, however you want to put it). In fact, that was Sir Scoot's initial promise on the most recent Live On Three cast. He didn't do it under EG's employ, even if he were lying, and therefore would very obviously get a final, absolute warning that none of his previous behavior would be tolerated now. Scoots bleated on and on about this, with Wheat enthusiastically taking his side, and he still did recently on twitter. And yet they go ahead and dismiss Orb! How is it possible? How is it possible they dismiss Orb, who never even erred as an Evil Geniuses caster, and simply "talk to" to Idra over his use of the word F-----t as a member and (arguably standard bearer) of EG? I imagine they talked to Huk to over his use of N---a on his tweet, right? It wasn't used as an insult, and had an "A" at the end, but it's pretty equally offensive. How come Huk and Idra got the sort of rational and measured "warnings" that SirScoots promised but failed to deliver to Orb? The answer's obvious. It's a financial play to save sponsors and appeal to the οι πολλοι on reddit. It reaks of hypocrisy, greed, and sanctimonious nonsense. If I could, I would boycott EG and everything they're involved in, but they seem to have spread everywhere and I don't think it's possible to without giving up on the SC2 community. Oh well. Hope everyone feels happy with themselves! I don't think they would have fired him if he hadn't lied about it when they asked him, or if he hadn't lied to and insulted the community about it. | ||
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Soma Cruz
United States209 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:07 Defacer wrote: Destiny is a decent guy, but he's an idiot about this matter. Ignoring the derogatory nature word perpetuates it, and doesn't nothing to neuter it or make it 'go away.' "Sorry, I should have been more clear. When I say "stop talking about racism", I'm really meaning to say "stop talking about stupid little things that only share superficial aspects with things that are truly racist". A guy saying "nigger" on a stream to describe what he perceives to be as a stupid/cheesy opponent isn't nearly as bad as a white boss referring to a black coworker as a "nigger" with some other friends." http://www.reddit.com/user/NeoDestiny | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
1) Racism exists and is bad, this is generally accepted (somehow this took like three paragraphs...) 2) However, in particular, this one type of racism is more bad, based purely on what I think and my perspective. 3) Since this type of racism is somehow consequently objectively and universally more bad, I am justified in making a completely unjustifiable action in *any other circumstance* because it's so much more bad and I think you're scum if you disagree. 4) I'll totally forgive you if you lynch this kid, that's how bad this is. But once you're done curbstomping him, forgive him because he's just making a mistake. See, I can be nice too ^^ 5) Please don't jump to conclusions like I just spent an entire post explaining how I did, because it hurts our sponsors. 6) <3 Esports 7) Peace. I really hope I wrote enough that nobody is actually going to read this thoroughly. Alex. Being passionate about something is all well and good, but making judgements based on that passion is... well, it's what got us into trouble with racism in the first place. There's no reason to plumb this above any other kind of racism, sexism or what have you. There are plenty of equivalent terms, many of which Mr. Garfield has probably used himself at one point or another in anger or frustration, though likely outside the public sphere. The fact that EG is rooted in an overarching culture that is unashamedly involved in propagating several quite ugly -isms and has done very little if anything to decry/declaim this on its own initiative makes this no less hilariously naive. Personal distaste is not a sound basis for corporate action. Personal distaste backed by a majority of staff perhaps, or personal distaste backed by evidence that the behaviour had a negative financial impact on the company perhaps, but putting an employee up against the firing squad simply because of a past event where personal sensibilities were retrospectively offended is utterly ludicrous. | ||
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ffdestiny
United States773 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:14 fidelity wrote: The amount of white people defending their "right" to call others nigger, or how nigger really isn't a bad word(according to them), is frightening. Happens all the time in the playgrounds of the white surburbs of any middle-class area... it's like a talking point for any group of white teenagers. | ||
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critique
United States135 Posts
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Rodiel3
France1158 Posts
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viticuss
United States37 Posts
Neither Christians nor Muslims are race groups, so I should think not. | ||
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Lupita
United States290 Posts
I don't think you understand the difference between race and religion. And that would be considered a hate crime. | ||
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Mr.Rager
United States59 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:12 Defacer wrote: Oh yes.Orb and Destiny's use of the word should be considered 'heroic'. Or maybe they're a couple of skinny sad-sack rage-nerds that think calling people niggers makes them sound badass. "Look at me, I'm so gangsta! Tee Hee!" Please stop intellectualizing the mindless misanthropy, self-indulgence and overall stupidity of others -- by quoting DUNE??!?!?!?!?!? Lol? The guy is not even trying to say what they said is heroic. He's trying to say they prove a point and people shouldn't be so worked up about this issue. I'm pretty sure they don't give a flying fuck about being "badass" or "gangsta"; they use the words they use because it expresses their emotions. That's why you use more words than others, right? And what's wrong with quoting Dune; if it gets your point across, you should be able to use any source. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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PorkMac
United States2 Posts
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:14 fidelity wrote: The amount of white people defending their "right" to call others nigger, or how nigger really isn't a bad word(according to them), is frightening. That's how much entitlement some kids have ... it's pathetic. | ||
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Alacast
United States205 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:12 Defacer wrote: Oh yes.Orb and Destiny's use of the word should be considered 'heroic'. Or maybe they're a couple of skinny sad-sack rage-nerds that think calling people niggers makes them sound badass. "Look at me, I'm so gangsta! Tee Hee!" Please stop intellectualizing the mindless misanthropy, self-indulgence and overall stupidity of others -- by quoting DUNE??!?!?!?!?!? I don't recall where in my post I lauded or even mentioned Orb or Destiny, and I don't consider their actions heroic, I consider them immature and fueled by irrational anger. It doesn't change the fact that stigmatizing words and actions gives them power to offend. Also, I hope you're not hating on Dune, I found the series (all 6 books) quite well written and interesting; these two quotes happen to come from the fourth book, I realize there could be some confusion with my calling Frank the "God Emperor" of Dune, which is not what I meant. It's simply the book's name. | ||
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lucasfz
United States9 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:13 Heston wrote: Well the context of Orbs use of the word nigger is pretty concerning to me considering he called him a "dumb nigger", and I think it's a good thing white people aren't turning a blind eye to it. turning a blind eye for a white person calling another white person a "dumb nigger" how does the word dumb even change anything, that doesnt imply that black people are all stupid, because he added dumb, you could say dumb white person but t hat doesn't imply that all white people are stupid. it is just words, they are harmless, he isnt actually racist. | ||
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sharky246
1197 Posts
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viticuss
United States37 Posts
On March 09 2012 15:17 Thereisnosaurus wrote: Dear lord the naiveness in that OP... oaaahhh. It basically reads in TLDR mode: 1) Racism exists and is bad, this is generally accepted (somehow this took like three paragraphs...) 2) However, in particular, this one type of racism is more bad, based purely on what I think and my perspective. 3) Since this type of racism is somehow consequently objectively and universally more bad, I am justified in making a completely unjustifiable action in *any other circumstance* because it's so much more bad and I think you're scum if you disagree. 4) I'll totally forgive you if you lynch this kid, that's how bad this is. But once you're done curbstomping him, forgive him because he's just making a mistake. See, I can be nice too ^^ 5) Please don't jump to conclusions like I just spent an entire post explaining how I did, because it hurts our sponsors. 6) <3 Esports 7) Peace. I really hope I wrote enough that nobody is actually going to read this thoroughly. Alex. Being passionate about something is all well and good, but making judgements based on that passion is... well, it's what got us into trouble with racism in the first place. There's no reason to plumb this above any other kind of racism, sexism or what have you. There are plenty of equivalent terms, many of which Mr. Garfield has probably used himself at one point or another in anger or frustration, though likely outside the public sphere. The fact that EG is rooted in an overarching culture that is unashamedly involved in propagating several quite ugly -isms and has done very little if anything to decry/declaim this on its own initiative makes this no less hilariously naive. Personal distaste is not a sound basis for corporate action. Personal distaste backed by a majority of staff perhaps, or personal distaste backed by evidence that the behaviour had a negative financial impact on the company perhaps, but putting an employee up against the firing squad simply because of a past event where personal sensibilities were retrospectively offended is utterly ludicrous. I don't really want to address your post, but to your last point, perhaps the most important one about financial impact. Alex made it clear in his OP that he felt financial pressure (all the people contacting sponsers), so on that point I would say yes, the language had a potentially adverse effect upon the company. | ||
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itkovian
United States1763 Posts
And this address, while well written, came of as too preaching, circle-jerky and condescending. It bugs me to see constant references to this imagined shinny, golden future of esports where everything is tame and everyone is held to the highest standards imaginable. It is like we want the community members to be gods, and not humans. And the only reason these words are so hurtful is because we give them so much power. Incidents like this don't help. I don't approve of what orb said, in fact I hate it when people talk like that on ladder. Its just frustrating how everyone in this community feels like they're so much better than the person they have their fingers pointed at. On March 09 2012 12:42 ottersareneat wrote: ...Now, I just wish you guys would also get this upset when people use the word f----t, so that we could start fighting homophobia, too, and show people that it, like racism, also doesn't belong in our community .This makes it seem like you're only fighting because the community is rallying behind you. So if the community got this riled up when people said faggot, THEN you would take action against the people who spoke it? | ||
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