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Orb Dismissed from Evil Geniuses Broadcasts - Page 50

Forum Index > SC2 General
3626 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 48 49 50 51 52 182 Next
Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources.

In short, be smart.

Alex comments on Idra:


Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038

Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST
MountainGoat
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States507 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 05:43:34
March 09 2012 05:38 GMT
#981
Overreaction in my opinion. Giving the word that much power is misguided and I think a word can be separated from its original meaning. Are people offended when people say lame? Because that refers to someone with a limp. When people say dumb? That means someone who is unable to speak. When Orb said nigger he wasn't doing it any sort of a racist capacity and I think it's not a good decision to dismiss him just because of it. It's this sort of PCness and overly sensitivity that actually makes the word nigger more hurtful by being so afraid to say it that it becomes this deep dark powerful world just because everyone is so afraid to say it.

EDIT: Although I do admit that with a horde of angry redditors screaming at sponsors this was probably the only option Alex had.
Paradice
Profile Joined October 2010
New Zealand431 Posts
March 09 2012 05:38 GMT
#982
Well handled. This shameful behavior has no place in the 21st century.
TheRedViper
Profile Joined October 2011
United States22 Posts
March 09 2012 05:39 GMT
#983
This a bigger overreaction than the Naniwa business a few months ago. I find it your racial OVERsensitivity more offensive than what Orb actually said.

Oh, I'm black.
“Words are pale shadows of forgotten names. As names have power, words have power. Words can light fires in the minds of men. Words can wring tears from the hardest hearts.”
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5580 Posts
March 09 2012 05:39 GMT
#984
On March 09 2012 14:35 Silvertine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 14:31 oBlade wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:29 dangerjoe wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:27 oBlade wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:24 Silvertine wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:20 xiaofan wrote:
Destiny would have so much to say on this topic.

One of his pathetic arguments about how an inherently racist term isn't inherently racist.

Begging the question is a pretty poor form of argumentation.


Instead of arguing about what you think he would say, read it:

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/qodvs/orb_dismissed_from_evil_geniuses_broadcasts/c3z5l13


I was referring to Silvertine's post, not Destiny.

And it's exactly what I predicted combined with an assortment of other hilariously stupid arguments. Thank you for proving my point.

I don't know what I had to do with your point. Destiny may well not have the best arguments, but that school of thought has a lot of arguments and some of them are probably pretty persuasive. So your criticism that the conclusion is wrong because Destiny has a poor argument for it is an episode of hypocrisy because your own point was an informal logical fallacy, albeit it made for a very concise argument.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
March 09 2012 05:39 GMT
#985
On March 09 2012 14:28 Shiori wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 14:26 tree.hugger wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:20 Shiori wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:14 RoboBob wrote:
It's refreshing to see a company that has a modern attitude towards race and social justice. I just liked Team EG on facebook in large part due to this post.

I believe that the community should forgive Orb for his behavior. But I also believe that EG made the right decision by letting him go.

Modern here meaning extremely patronizing and over-reactive.

This is not a big deal. You know who gets mad about people saying 'nigger' these days? White people, not black people. It continues to amaze the hell out of me that the people at the front lines (e.g. Alex) are invariably white and seem to be under the impression that there are massive racial problems going on in language. You really care about racism (not just Alex, but people in this thread in general)? Go to Detroit or a poor inner-city area and start trying to fix the problems where they actually are. Stop the cycle of poverty that breeds division between races. Nobody is going to criticize you for that. But people do get mad when people who would otherwise probably not participate in any social activism whatsoever 'stand up against racism' (see: this situation) and act like some great moral victory has been won.

To me, it's just condescending nonsense, and while Alex's post is academic (though I can't say his style is very endearing) it's still just 21st century post-modernism coming out in force and is basically the manifestation of an extreme desire to see no one ever offended for anything, regardless of whether they have much grounds to feel offense.

Cute theory. Now go to Detroit and see if caucasians or african americans are more offended by your use of that epithet.

Does it matter? Even a black person who takes offense to someone casually stating a racial slur (i.e. one that is not maliciously directed at them) is overreacting. It's a little more acceptable because of extenuating circumstances (e.g. they being black, if they're from a situation of having experienced racism etc. etc.) but they are nonetheless wrong to take offense, because what they should be opposed to is racism viz. racists, not terminology that reminds them of racism.

Are you kidding me? A word that has been used in leiu of a whip for generations, a word that retains it's terrible power more than a century after the end of slavery , a word that still symbolizes the very real systematic racism present in our society, is something that people shouldn't be offended by, because it isn't racist? How should someone be able to tell the difference between a non-racist person who casually uses the words and tools of racists, and actual racists?

Incredible to me that you find fault with the people who are taking offense, instead of at the person who has casually trodden across the sorest and most devastating sociological fault line in this country.

We're not talking about some fantasy land. We're talking about real life; this planet in 2012, where that word is incredibly offensive, and with excellent reason, because the inequalities that it perpetuated are still in existence, just in different forms. Take your fairytale elsewhere.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
XRaDiiX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1730 Posts
March 09 2012 05:39 GMT
#986
On March 09 2012 14:28 MrDudeMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 14:27 XRaDiiX wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:24 kuan888 wrote:
I dont agree with this decision, an apology from Orb would have been enough i think.

Alex, you just opened a pandora box...



Yeah that was a friendly gesture hardly anything comparable to the use of a derogatory racial term towards another player.

You are trying to compare two totally different things. CONTEXT


He wasnt trying to offend him by implying he was black. CONTEXT


Uh comparison i was comparing Huks use of the word slang N###a as a friendly gesture to two of his friends.

The person was trying to compare the similarities to Orbs use of N###er as a derogatory offense.
Never GG MKP | IdrA
EnderSword
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada669 Posts
March 09 2012 05:39 GMT
#987
On March 09 2012 14:38 Paradice wrote:
Well handled. This shameful behavior has no place in the 21st century.


Unless like, you win and MLG or IEM or something that excuses it of course

User was temp banned for this post.
Bronze/Silver/Gold level Guides - www.youtube.com/user/EnderSword
Karmablah
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada48 Posts
March 09 2012 05:39 GMT
#988
I wonder how this would have played out if he didn't lie when questioned and simply apologized.
Megabuster123
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada1837 Posts
March 09 2012 05:40 GMT
#989
On March 09 2012 14:34 Silvertine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 14:30 Megabuster123 wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:27 Silvertine wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:26 Megabuster123 wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:24 Silvertine wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:20 xiaofan wrote:
Destiny would have so much to say on this topic.

One of his pathetic arguments about how an inherently racist term isn't inherently racist.

Inherently racist, how interesting...

Any part of that which you aren't getting sweetheart?

Yeah, I don't understand how a word can be inherently racist....

The word has been used as a racial slur for centuries, was created as a racial slur and has no other accepted meaning. Thus it's inherently racist. Not very difficult to understand.

Except language isn't that cut and dry. Contextually speaking there a number of factors that come into play that determine the meaning of a word to a recipient. Words are rarely if anything inherently anything.
sickle
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
New Zealand656 Posts
March 09 2012 05:40 GMT
#990
Nigger. As described from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Nigger.

noun
1.
Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive .
a.
a black person.
b.
a member of any dark-skinned people.
2.
Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive . a person of any race or origin regarded as contemptible, inferior, ignorant, etc.
3.
a victim of prejudice similar to that suffered by blacks; a person who is economically, politically, or socially disenfranchised.

Please note number 2.

Isn't it obvious that in this context, the context of losing his temper after losing a game, Orb did not mean any racial hatred. In his statement he wasn't declaring blacks as inferior, or pushing forward any other racist agendas, rather he used it as a general, although strong, insult. I find it outrageous that over this small incident, a man has to lose his job and reputation.
kineticSYN
Profile Joined May 2011
United States909 Posts
March 09 2012 05:40 GMT
#991
On March 09 2012 14:38 Angelbelow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 14:36 kineticSYN wrote:
i read that entire wall of text, and was genuinely moved and felt like clapping

then i remembered they have idra on their team, who seems to have absolutely no issue speaking his mind, whether it's "offensive" or not

lol'd, hypocrisy at its finest


Lol do you see the mod note on the top of the thread? Alex address' IdrA's behavior there.


yes, i saw that, and that's exactly my point. give priority and special treatment to a profitable individual, while immediately terminating someone else off of something he's done while not in any relation to EG

idra speaks his mind and blatantly uses the term 'faggot' in interviews while wearing the EG jersey, and then moments later give the whole "thanks to my 10 billion sponsors"

see what im sayin?
IMMvp #1 :)
jester-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada547 Posts
March 09 2012 05:40 GMT
#992
On March 09 2012 14:28 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
I feel like last couple of weeks starcraft community as soon as they wake up they look to make some drama whenever its possible to do it.

If he did this while in EG lair I can understand that they would dismiss him, but these were older replays and im pretty sure he wouldnt be stupid to do that while in EG lair and just got job from them. It sure is his fault, you cant blame anyone else, but most likely ruining his casting career forever is overdoing it because of something he did in past. He should be punished in some way, but not like this.

I wish people when they come online would try to search for nice stuff someone did and make funny posts instead there is JUST drama and nothing else on TL or reddit lately.


Yep, it's pretty disappointing. Orb is a great caster and is/was all over the place.

I like this site and I like reddit, but I really don't like how critical and ridiculous they can be sometimes.

It's like no one around here can relax and go about their business - like it's the norm to join the head hunt and vocalize your plans of retribution.

Orb fucked up, but this community fucked up even harder today. Honestly haven't been this disappointed in the SC2 community in my life.
Arise, chicken sandwich.
Pasargadae
Profile Joined March 2012
Korea (South)173 Posts
March 09 2012 05:40 GMT
#993
While this community may appear to be more mature and educated than others, this mob mentality is indicative of quite the contrary. This situation has clearly shown the extreme biases of both the community and EG; as many have already pointed out, pejorative terms embodying homophobic and sexist sentiment are overlooked, while expletives with sensitive (and mostly American) racist connotations are overly chastised in proportion. My opinion on EG's particular decision to release Orb is rather apathetic, but the prejudice demonstrated in this outcome clearly parallels deeper, intrinsic ones.

Many people may claim "justice" was served, but this is ludicrously ignorant. Despite justice being mostly an opinion, there is a strong harken to egalitarianism, a rather lofty ideal this community desperately lacks.
Offhand
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1869 Posts
March 09 2012 05:40 GMT
#994
Wait, Orb got fired for screenshotting his own ladder rage?
NG_
Profile Joined December 2011
12 Posts
March 09 2012 05:41 GMT
#995
--- Nuked ---
ffdestiny
Profile Joined September 2010
United States773 Posts
March 09 2012 05:41 GMT
#996
You're all missing the point, Orb's career isn't ruined... he now has a calling for Call of Duty or Halo.
ozzy1346
Profile Joined November 2011
United States38 Posts
March 09 2012 05:41 GMT
#997
lol he rages in ladder and you people strip the man of his livlihood? so dumb, nigger hardly means shit these days, its the same as fag and gay. people dont use them offensively towards blacks and homosexuals, they use it when they rage. same thing if i get bunker rushed and i say ''go fuck yourself you fucking dildolicking douchebag''.
''Ultralisk Drop Harass''-Catz
ken-
Profile Joined May 2011
63 Posts
March 09 2012 05:41 GMT
#998
In the long run this decision will be positive for esports as a whole. It's about time people start getting punished for their actions. Anyone defending the use of the n-word is just pathetic. I'm willing to bet anything that Orb would never use that word in a room full of people so why is it okay to use it online? Using the excuse of internet rage is just pathetic as well... grow up if the only way to get over losing a video game is to spam racial slurs at your opponent then you need to grow up.

Also I'm willing to bet EG has had a sit down talk with there members about this outcome. You really think you are going to see Idra use any type of slur in the future? I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to know the second he uses anything there will be a post about it here on TL and reddit. Pretty sure if Idra uses another slur in the future it would be his last as an EG member. (key word FUTURE)

Hopefully this outcome will start the change needed to bring esports to the next level. Racial slurs of any kind is not allowed in sports, business, basically anywhere and that should include the internet as well.
Protosnake
Profile Joined September 2011
France295 Posts
March 09 2012 05:42 GMT
#999
On March 09 2012 14:36 iloveAthene wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 14:35 Protosnake wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:34 Silvertine wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:30 Megabuster123 wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:27 Silvertine wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:26 Megabuster123 wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:24 Silvertine wrote:
On March 09 2012 14:20 xiaofan wrote:
Destiny would have so much to say on this topic.

One of his pathetic arguments about how an inherently racist term isn't inherently racist.

Inherently racist, how interesting...

Any part of that which you aren't getting sweetheart?

Yeah, I don't understand how a word can be inherently racist....

The word has been used as a racial slur for centuries, was created as a racial slur and has no other accepted meaning. Thus it's inherently racist. Not very difficult to understand.


No. The word was created to depict the color black.


simply not true


I'm sorry but it's simply is. Negra Negre Nigger have been used in Europe to depict the color black way before the discovery of Africa.

Obviously this doesnt mean that the word doesnt have strong racial connotation today, but it mean that calling it "Inherently racist" is a proof of ignorance.
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
March 09 2012 05:42 GMT
#1000
Not the best decision IMO, but then again EG didn't have much of a choice with half of TL demanding Orb to get fired or punished in this thread. This statement is most likely going to impact all the SotG-esque shows now, and I really expect some kind of reaction/statement about Idra in the next few weeks. If people are going to complain about the way EG handled this, they should do it individually and not try to get a lynch mob together.
¯\_(シ)_/¯
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