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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 09 2012 13:14 CajunMan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:12 Gamegene wrote:On March 09 2012 13:11 CajunMan wrote:I understand why he was released but this has been a retarded unholy crusade against him. So your saying that someone playing ladder games randomly Who says a word someone else doesn't like they should be burned and shunned like they are  sAviOr? I understand from a business aspect he is a public figure and his job is to watch what he says and be charismatic because he is at all times representing the company. The rest of the community really needs to stfu though really your gonna be mad cause he said a bad word? I bet half these people say worse and laugh at everything on 4chan. what savior did and what orb did are two ENTIRELY different things -_- And they are basically being treated the same. What's up with that?
savior was sentenced to jail time, given a lifetime ban from any e-sports events they have control over (as well as many in SC2 that only know him by reputation), denounced by all major figures in the game and stripped of any reputation he once had in the eyes of all players, casters, and fans alike never to be forgiven openly.
Orb was fired from one casting gig after being scolded for his bad language, and his now former employer is already asking the community to forgive him should he apologize. The community itself isn't even unified against him, and there is no reason he can't make amends and re-approach the scene with renewed vigor.
You need to learn a little bit of scale and stop equating some bad press with an apparent crucifixion.
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On March 09 2012 13:17 Luepert wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:14 venge1155 wrote:On March 09 2012 12:59 Luepert wrote:
Pretty weird when you get fired for getting mad while playing a video game. At pretty much any other job you can't get fired for BMing someone in a video game on your own free time. The fact that you say that make me think you do not have a real job, or are just completely clueless. If my boss got ahold of an E-mail or overheard me saying half the stuff that gets said when children (and thats what "ragers" are, children who can not handle a game) I would lose the hell out of my job AND be brought before HR whereby if the next company i apply to looks into my HR file from my last job there would be a nice suprise waiting for them. In short, yes if your boss heard you speaking that way you would be out the door. This is not an e-mail, this is not talking. This is his own personal recreation. Would you get fired for raging while playing golf on your own time?
sure you would
lets say your palying golf with your buddies and the whole time your making loud jokes and racial slurs and the guys behind you see you notice you and remember you
then they wind up being clients of yours and notice you and specifically point out to your boss your conduct and say they do not feel comfortable at all working iwth you in any manner
your boss will fire you hed rather fire you for acting so unprofessional then lose clients
Orb can be replaced, viewers and sponsors cant
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I think that contacting EG sponsors was pretty lame. It gave them no choice because their sponsor are way more valuable than orb.
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On March 09 2012 13:20 momonami5 wrote:
guys comparing to idra, orb dug his own grave here folks, he lied to eg who made a statement that they believed orb, then real evidence came out proving that orb lied. If orb would have just said it was him and that it was a mistake he made long ago he would be fine but he made EG look like idiots.
It pretty much goes back to what we say at the firm: "If you mess up, fess up. Covering it up will only making thing worse".
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On March 09 2012 13:17 DaemonX wrote:
But Orb committed no crime, and did not do something which throws his character into permanent question, such as a player cheating, but just a one-off distasteful action in the past - since you yourself state it did not reflect any actual racism or political agenda of any sort on his side.
There were multiple examples of him spewing out those comments in the past, and how does trying to cover it up and lying about it to his employers not throw his character into question? I guaran-fucking-tee you that if he admits his mistake and apologizes in his first response to the original reddit thread he still has a job and we have already forgotten it ever happened.
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On March 09 2012 13:21 IamMrWren wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:07 Liquid`NonY wrote:On March 09 2012 12:51 PowerDes wrote:
What a joke. Let this be a warning guys, be on your bestest behavior when playing ladder games or the internet will destroy your reputation. The difference in attitude here is what often sets apart people who hit a plateau in life and people who miraculously, seemingly luckily, succeed. If anyone ever gets confused on how you should handle any situation, ask yourself, what would Sheth do.
Liquid should make Sheth shirts that say WWSD on the them
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On March 09 2012 13:17 Luepert wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:14 venge1155 wrote:On March 09 2012 12:59 Luepert wrote:
Pretty weird when you get fired for getting mad while playing a video game. At pretty much any other job you can't get fired for BMing someone in a video game on your own free time. The fact that you say that make me think you do not have a real job, or are just completely clueless. If my boss got ahold of an E-mail or overheard me saying half the stuff that gets said when children (and thats what "ragers" are, children who can not handle a game) I would lose the hell out of my job AND be brought before HR whereby if the next company i apply to looks into my HR file from my last job there would be a nice suprise waiting for them. In short, yes if your boss heard you speaking that way you would be out the door. This is not an e-mail, this is not talking. This is his own personal recreation. Would you get fired for raging while playing golf on your own time?
if your job is in golf and you were BM'ing fans of the game, yeah you would get fired. SC2 is more than a personal recreation to Orb, its his job.
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On March 09 2012 13:19 Quotidian wrote:This will only end Orb's career if he lets it. Destiny is famous for saying "nigger" on his stream, and he is still going relatively strong. And then there's Idra's use of "faggot." + Show Spoiler +What I find the most annoying about this thread is how the OP refuses to spell out "nigger" even though we all know what word he is referring to. I guess I just get reminded about the Louis CK bit:
Thank you so much for posting that video. This whole thing has made me think of Louis CK the whole time and think on how ridiculous people are acting
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This was very professionally handled, and Mr. Garfield I was very impressed by your thoughts on the subject. As a black StarCraft fan I cannot say I was personally offended by Orb's words - perhaps I've spent too much time online to care too much about the abuses of anomymitity one runs across on a near daily basis, especially in gaming and other popular culture forums; I instead focus on holding myself to a level of civility.
That being said, I fully support the firing of Orb. Evil Geniuses is a business, and businesses are represented by their employees. Orb's choice of words were unacceptable - not just the use of "nigger" but the use of "faggot" as well. I don't think he's racist, and would never accuse of him being racist. But there are certain things one doesn't say when representing an organization.
Once again I want to salute Mr. Garfield's thoughtful approach to this situation, and I plan on sharing his post with friends who aren't SC/esports fans to get their opinions and thoughts as well.
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On March 09 2012 13:13 Luepert wrote:
Idra calls people faggots while officailly representing EG
Idra gets the largest fanbase in all of starcraft 2
Idra gets paid lots of money by EG.
Orb calls people niggers while on his own personal time
Orb has few fans
Orb gets fired by EG.
Haha so much hypocrisy from the OP. Alex you'll never change the way people express themselves in any video game industry, just like you can't change how people express themselves on the internet. You can try all you want but it's wasted effort. Either way I don't agree with this statement, as always people listening only to the loud vocal minority and the circlejerking from reddit.
I won't bother bitching to your sponsor because that's actually plain stupid, I don't want to hurt Esport potential growth over such silly shit.
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I think that everyone here should contact EG's sponsors, even if you weren't part of the angry mob, and let them now how well they have handled the situation. Please do it.
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Obviously I think it's terrible of Orb to have spoken how he did, but come on, what the fuck. How can the owner of the team with players who constantly throw around words like "faggot" and "retarded" make a post l like this. This strikes me as an extremely condescending and hypocritical post.
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Canada13407 Posts
On March 09 2012 13:11 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:06 1Eris1 wrote:On March 09 2012 13:04 mcleod wrote:
this all seems a bit harsh on Orb
i think hes a great caster, yes he said some awful things
no need to fuck his shit up tho
grow up EG He also lied to them. No matter what your job is, if you lie to your boss chances are your ass is gonna get canned. The thread would have been 15 pages max if Orb had just come out and apologized, but he didn't, and choose to make excuses/try to cover it up. True, I think if Orb was truthful on the matter he might have kept his job with EG and been only dealt a penalty of some sort. Fact is, Orb knew he was in the wrong and instead of apologizing for his mistake and making amends, explaining how he has changed, he lied and attempted to cover the issue up. That alone shows his employer Orb could not keep their trust to well represent the EG organization.
To be fair the question of truth is debatable.
He may have been completely truthful with regards to the initial post on reddit and the game that occured on March 7th.
However I feel that people are mistaking his statement with regards to that one game (his shared account incident) to be the same statement with regards to games in the past. He was not asked about the games in the past and people assume that he was lying about the past games as well.
This was not the case at the very least publicly. So his initial statement could have been made entirely truthfully. Then individuals decided to search through months of past vods in an attempt to "prove" Orb is a "racist" followed by people sending messages to the EG sponsors putting pressure on Alex and EG to make a particular decision.
The entire question of his use of the word is one thing but this kind of reaction being accepted solely on the predicate of "orb lied to his employer" is in my opinion suspect. That is why this decision seems unfortunate to me. In addition to this, it emboldens the kind of activities I really dislike about the community and Reddit.
This was more than condemning Orb for words used it was seeking vindication for his actions. The malicious attempts to hunt down any proof of past use of the N word proves that it was more than saying "this is wrong" and instead saying "we want your career ended". Any number of responses from EG could have been done. Orb not allowed to take part in this season of MCSL for one but now the moment Orb is casting anything people will probably blacklist him entirely which is the most unfortunate thing.
Orb casts in 6 months, reddit finds out, people email sponsors for the event, orb has a hard time going anywhere. Soon there will be pressure to unfeature orb the moment he streams on TL again I am sure.
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On March 09 2012 13:18 TBone- wrote:Wow I really feel for Orb on that one  . He was living the dream. Show nested quote +
However, almost ten years later, as I also mentioned at the beginning of this (very long) post, I've never been prouder to be a part of the StarCraft community (or of any gaming community) than I am at this very moment. And I feel this way because, despite the fact that you guys have been peppering my sponsors with complaints*, your outrage shows me that we do have a set of core values (one of which is that racism isn't acceptable), and we expect our icons and celebrities to share those values; otherwise, they won't be our icons and celebrities any longer.
I don't feel proud... You make this out to be some glorious feat by the community, but in reality, a kid who had a dream messed up, and got fired for it. That to me is so sad. Can you guys actually imagine how terrible Orb must be feeling?
Hes proud of our community not condoning actions that should not under any circumstances be tolerated. There are consiquences for your actions, and orb said the words that only made himself lose his dream.
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- paragraphs upon paragraphs of self-aggrandizing monologue (no one cares if you took Black Studies, really)
- Orb said nigger on air, got fired (okay, now we know why we're reading this)
- continued bout of literary diarrhea, more needless self-referential bullshit
- begging people not to complain to sponsors despite deserving the backlash that occurred (really, who doesn't know Orb's reputation by now; you signed off on his behaviour when he was given the job)
- check to see what kind of narcissist could have written this
- Alex Garfield
I'm not surprised at all; leave it to an entitled silver-spoon douchebag to make a business announcement into a mass of PC intellectual masturbation. Seriously, all this needed to be was a few paragraphs of "Orb did something unacceptable, so we fired him. Sorry to all and enjoy the rest of our event, P.S. please stop sending complaints to our sponsors now."
User was banned for this post.
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This community is full of hypocrites. I hope you are all happy ruining a guy's dream for something really silly.
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Wow, gained a ton of respect for EG as an organization, and Alex Garfield after this post. Wow, so great to see that they are not going to just let this kind of thing continue.
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...And people actually thought this was a witch hunt? Countless selfish, apathetic people on this board, it's sickening. EG was at risk of losing sponsors, and all people can say is "They're just words. They don't affect me."
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On March 09 2012 13:17 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:13 Luepert wrote:
Idra calls people faggots while officailly representing EG
Idra gets the largest fanbase in all of starcraft 2
Idra gets paid lots of money by EG.
Orb calls people niggers while on his own personal time
Orb has few fans
Orb gets fired by EG. The thing is, it's not advisable to trash talk and insult some dudes on the Internet, regardless of what certain other people seem to be allowed to say. Can't you just take your fucking loss and shut the fuck up without BM'ing?
two wrongs don't make a right, but eg has had people saying homophobic comments in the public eye from the start of their involvement with sc2. i apparently have low standards for what people say, since i mostly do not care about any namecalling. however, the hypocrisy here is very funny, and if EG was going to try to make a statement about being socially aware and considerate, then they should have focused on their big names calling people faggots before their little names started calling people niggers.
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EPT
