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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 09 2012 13:16 Kharnage wrote:I have no problem with EG drawing a line in the sand and saying "No, we will not tolerate this." I hope Alex has a word to all his players and tell them that all the shit they got away with in the past, like calling people fags or whatever, has to stop. Right now. They just had a panel and MIT, E-Sports is featuring in Forbes etc, The world is watching. This moment here is where E-Sports can either grow up and become a serious thing, is devolve into the stereo type of kids living in their parents basements. + Show Spoiler +
Why - this is because of what happened in the past before he was an employee, on his own time... they should be held to the same standard. They shouldn't get a free pass on the past - Orb certainly didn't.
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I've gained alot of respect for EG after reading this.
I will give a shout out to Steel-series i bought a sensei a month ago because they sponsor EG.
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Nice write up as always, glad to see this sort of behaviour isn't accepted in one the leading esport organisations.
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On March 09 2012 13:16 Kharnage wrote:
I have no problem with EG drawing a line in the sand and saying "No, we will not tolerate this." I hope Alex has a word to all his players and tell them that all the shit they got away with in the past, like calling people fags or whatever, has to stop.
Right now.
They just had a panel and MIT, E-Sports is featuring in Forbes etc, The world is watching. This moment here is where E-Sports can either grow up and become a serious thing, is devolve into the stereo type of kids living in their parents basements.
This guys pretty much has it right. If you want to keep enjoying SC2, we need to avoid stuff like this and the crap that happened with Fighting Game Community. Its bad for business.
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I appreciate you coming out with this statement and explaing the reasoning behind your actions. I also understand your position and status in the community so I do not want to come off as rude in any way. I agree with you that those words have no place in the SC2 community and in society in general.
That said, I'm curious if Orb being released is more about the community outrage and less about what he did. What I mean is would the decision be the same if the pictures were made public but the community didn't have the reaction it did. I don't think it would have been, and I feel like thats a problem. I don't think anyone thinks that what Orb did was right, and that he shouldn't be punished in some way, but this is very similar to the Katu situation where I think the punishment was made worse by the community reaction.
Maybe this isn't a problem and is the way punishments should be dealt with, because you need sponsors and therefore need to keep fans happy. I've no experience running any public organization, so I would be very happy to be corrected if wrong, but I feel by reacting to the intensity of the outrage rather then how bad what the person did is, then your going to encourage this type of mob behavior (since they will feel empowered that they got someone fired), and this will force you to make more severe decisions in the future. I feel its better to rather make the decision based on how bad is and that way not be ruled by the public. This is a bit of a slippery slope arguement, but to me it seems like everything turns into a big deal and someone gets fired (I'm not saying that Orb or Katu shouldn't have been fired, that is for the organizations to decide, just that the communitys reactions to everything is either your ok with it or its the worst thing ever).
Also, I hope that you are being sincere about how you feel about the word f---t, and I hope that your players are punished in some way when they use that word in public, such as on TL or on stream, despite there being no community outrage over it.
Anyway, those are just my insignificant thoughts on the matter, and again thank you for interacting with the community the way you are and for what you've done to grow eSports.
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Well, EG is free to hire and fire whoever they want, and the esports audience is free to follow Orb's excellent casting to whatever other leagues that are lucky enough to get him as a caster.
As I said in the other thread, I consider all this in the end more of an attack that hurts EG (for losing Orb as a caster), than an attack that hurts Orb, who will continue to be such a great caster anyway, and probably find an even better position.
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Well done EG. People can get second chances, but Orb refused to play it out maturely. Can't say that I feel sorry for him.
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On March 09 2012 13:10 Barrin wrote:
I forgive him :D
But I'm really not down with community figures using words like that. I don't think I've ever used the n word. Haven't even said "faggot" or "gay" in many years.
<3 orb. I don't think any less of you man, I think you've learned your lesson... don't let it get to you you'll be fine♥
I think what's most disappointing is that Orb was caught in the Beta and faced consequences from TL. Consequences he was more than happy to parade around for his detractors this time around.
I don't know if it's really reasonable to still insist that it *might* not have been Orb this most recent times, so I'll assume it's not. Which means, it just looks like he learned nothing other than getting caught could lead to trouble (so he started covering up and going after people who questioned him).
Well now he's burned 2 bridges, we'll see if the lesson sets in this time. I do agree that he should move on from this and prove that he deserves another chance (even convicted felons get 3 strikes after all). We'll see if he takes it.
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On March 09 2012 13:08 jianming wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:54 TheSwamp wrote:On March 09 2012 12:50 kibeth wrote:
I actually find your post overly condescending and obnoxious, and I like EG as an organization.
It's kind of like if I stole a toy from a grocery store when I was 8. Later in life I work there, and somehow someone finds out that a decade ago I stole a 99cent toy, and I was fired. Sounds ridiculous right? I did not realize Orb was eight when this all happened. You obviously have the mental capacity of an 8 year old if you don't know what a metaphor is.
You obviously don't understand how the metaphor is not accurate of the incident. It should read:
It's kind of like if I stole a toy from a grocery store when I was 23. A year or so later I work there, and somehow someone finds out that a decade ago I stole a 99cent toy, and I was fired.
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awww the tournament dropped in value just now, just for some bored people that like to spam sponsors, mmm i think i am bored now.
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United States109 Posts
guys comparing to idra, orb dug his own grave here folks, he lied to eg who made a statement that they believed orb, then real evidence came out proving that orb lied. If orb would have just said it was him and that it was a mistake he made long ago he would be fine but he made EG look like idiots.
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On March 09 2012 13:15 CravenRaven wrote:
This OP was the biggest QQ load of pc left wing bull crap i have ever seen in a games related forum. Want to talk about fueling injustices? How about we talk about legitimising and sustaining things that would probably go away if guilty white libtards stopped giving them meaning.
Kind of funny how the only posts criticizing EG/the OP are the ones spouting vitriol that is evident of unthinking/unchecked emotion, considering what this original incident is all about. Anger supports like-anger, and it's a shame that such people can't recognize the common sense that there are limits to what should be done when angry,
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On March 09 2012 13:07 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:51 PowerDes wrote:
What a joke. Let this be a warning guys, be on your bestest behavior when playing ladder games or the internet will destroy your reputation. The difference in attitude here is what often sets apart people who hit a plateau in life and people who miraculously, seemingly luckily, succeed.
If anyone ever gets confused on how you should handle any situation, ask yourself, what would Sheth do.
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Huk used the same racial slur on twitter a while back (I think he replaced the er with an a, but same thing) and then he later tweeted something of a sarcastic comment about needing to not use that word, but if I recall, no apology of any sort. People have mentioned Idra's use of the word faggot. There is no witch hunt on these players, there is no cry for them to be fired and there is no yelling at sponsors.
Now I am not trying to call out Huk or Idra, I like both of these players a lot, and EG is also my favorite team. Although I think EG's response to this is hypocritical for the previously mentioned things, I also don't blame them. When sponsors come asking why they are being threatened to be boycotted by fans, the only thing you can do is keep Orb or keep your sponsors. Guess which is more important. I am disgusted at the community. Not for being upset about the use of this particular word (which I don't see as racism if it's just being used as a insult being thrown around, but I agree with Alex in that it is the most disgusting word in the English language. It makes me cringe). I think the uproar over this type of thing is good, but the fact that nobody cares when Destiny or Huk or Idra or whoever does it is so hypocritical. "That word is killing e-sports! Except when Huk or Idra does it when it's cute or funny!".
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On March 09 2012 13:15 EcksperT wrote:
I don't know what exactly caused the outrage... but I do not think it had anything to do with the community's "core values." Look no further than Destiny defending the fact that he says "nigger" and those who championed him for that or no one caring when HuK said it on twitter to his tens of thousands of followers. This is not a proud day. There was no comcomitance of morals amongst Starcraft Players. I believe this incident was nothing more than people creating drama for the sake of drama.
No, this was the SC2 community taking a step towards growing up.
Destiny is the worst possible thing for this community right now. People like him are hurting the growth of SC2 more than we know.
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On March 09 2012 13:16 Husky wrote:
I'm torn on this.
I've met orb and he's a really nice and awesome person.
On one hand, I personally dont swear a lot or make racial/sexual orientation slurs like some of the other casters do. I try to represent any company I'm working for as best I can. For my personal image I feel best being more 'family friendly'.
On the other hand, is it really a big surprise to EG that orb has done this stuff in the past? An honest question, did they know about this behavior or are they responding now because people are having an uproar about it. I guess theres no way to know for sure as it is pretty simple to say 'we didnt know until now'.
I personally think SC2 would be extremely boring without the intense opinions of Totalbiscuit, without the hilarious live streams of Destiny, without the stand-up comedy style Day9 performances, without Incontrol being drunk off his ass at the Blizzcon TL after party before SC2 was even out etc etc.
While I think its completely up to EG to hire and fire whoever they want (welcome to running a business), I sure dont think someone should be flamed incessantly for this kind of behavior. Its just their personality and is who they are.
Then again, I'm the type of person that if there is someone in my life that really bugs me, rubs me the wrong way or drives me crazy I just separate myself from them and do not involve myself with them in any way. I have always felt like that is the less self-righteous and mature thing to do.
I think it's hard to stop the flaming on the individual level. I posted in the other thread quite a few times with my opinion because I thought it was one that was important to express - that for esports to grow and continue, we can't have community pillars that are willing to throw around words like "nigger" just because they lost one too many games. We can't just will ourselves separate of orb's comments, the community had to on some level light a fire under EG's ass.
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On March 09 2012 13:01 EnderSword wrote:
I'm incredibly disappointed in EG for this.
They've been my favourite team, I've got an EG mousepad, and one of the Hoodies and generally watch a lot of the team in general.
That certainly ends today.
This type of caving in to pressure by a loud, vicious minority of people who were hunting, not out of genuine offense, but to cause drama is an incredible display of horrible judgement and a complete lack of loyalty.
I could give two shits about orb...and to be honest, no one could. Nobody REALLY cares about it. It's just something to talk about between events.
Totally selling out an employee to save your own ass, especially while completely tolerating IdrA's...existence, and inviting Destiny onto EG sponsors and produced shows is so hypocritical as to be laughable.
I don't believe a single damn word Alex Garfield said, and his fake offendedness over this word is so ridiculous it's not worthy of any respect. It's the worst type of fake, two-faced holier-than-thou bullshit you can get.
Shove your sanctimonious bullshit and hypocritical policy and fuck off.
Or to quote your Own popular Team Member IdrA: "This Game is Retarded" and "The Game is worse because of Fags like you"
User was warned for this post
I am with you about this, I have no words to describe how disgusted I am with this, sometimes, hypocritical community that zealously supports and cherish players with behavior issues like IdrA and Destiny while doing this to Orb.
I read entire OP's post and all I could think of is how they profited by this entire situation. They were spotlighted by entire community because of Orb's mistake then they came out as heroes by selling him out - and almost EVERYONE ate it like can of Nutella...just unbelievable.
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A word is given what ever power you give it. I dont like the situation and I dont agree it was appropriate, but I think that this was taken a little far. Gl to orb
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Look between the lines, dudes. Orb wasn't fired because of his words, Orb was fired because his words set off a shitstorm that involved the partners.
No doubt in my mind that if the entirety of the community started writing the sponsors of every team out there saying they'll no longer buy any of the sponsor's shit because one of the players on a team they sponsored showed bad sportsmanship, that would cause that team to release that player, or risk losing the sponsor.
I have no doubt in my mind that Mr. Garfield means every word he says, and I thank him for it. But I highly doubt anything would have come of it if the community didn't bitch.
Is the community wrong for bitching? Maybe, maybe not. Depending on your view of the words used this may or may not be against your personal moral code.
Maybe I'm wrong and there would have been ramifications if the community had bitched to the EG brass, but we didn't, we bitched to sponsors, which is a whole new shitstorm entirely. I'm far more disgusted by how the community decided to handle this situation than the situation itself. I'm glad you're angry, I love that you're angry, I despise when people use that kind of language in hateful ways (and no, I've never called anyone in a ladder game a faggot or nigger or any form of those no matter how angry I got, and I lose a higher percentage of games than any pro). But think about what the hell you could be doing before doing it.
GJ, EG. And good luck, Orb. Nothing against you personally, but I hope you can bounce back and keep your temper in check in the future.
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that.. was.. outstanding.
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EPT
