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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038 Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
On March 10 2012 04:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Aren't all people technically Africans (on an evolutionary scale), therefore making all black people Africans? Or are you distinguishing between modern dark-colored humans? I'm guessing they're referring to people like Juan Williams. | ||
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Rockafella
United Kingdom291 Posts
On the word itself I can think of far more damaging insults to people, using the N word as an offense to a stranger who you don't know at all seems pretty dumb, as I as a white guy would take literally no offense to it and just call them a straight up moron. | ||
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LayZRR
Germany449 Posts
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
Common sense is to take the most effective measure against your perceived problem. And the sponser (boss' boss) would have responded to the complaint by asking the people talk to the direct boss if they felt the same as you. | ||
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Prplppleatr
United States1518 Posts
On March 10 2012 04:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: "American"  (That's what I've heard, anyway.) Wtf..why is this not a ban? I have made this type of a joke about french people when I got a temp ban... | ||
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LoraX
69 Posts
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SnuggleZhenya
596 Posts
On March 10 2012 04:49 Djzapz wrote: Well what can I say, I disagree. I trivialize homosexuality by making light of the whole situation. The idea that the usage of the word by itself has negative consequences seems like a shoddy assumption to me. I think it's you who is narrow minded, and that's why you choose to ban a word rather than understand it, and mock it, or use it recklessly, like the joke it can become. If people choose to be offended by the usage of the word, they should grow up. But no I don't think I contribute to a hateful discourse which I thoroughly dislike. And will I argue against every time I come across said discourse - and I'll continue to call my friends faggots in good faith, mostly in closed circles. Shoddy assumption? Read some literature on discourse, because I don't think we are using the word the same way. (If you want the short version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse#Postmodernism). I'm not offended by the word, I'm offended by your utter lack of historical perspective which apparently allows you to use a word with humorous intent when less than a half century ago you could be arbitrarily arrested, beaten, or killed while being called it. In a society where half the country will say outright you are going to burn in hell for it, prevent you from getting married to your partner, and would love to go right back to that previously mentioned era if they could get away with it. Maybe you live in a tolerant area and you don't see it, I don't know. Lest you forget incidents like this still happen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard I don't think you hate gay people. But I'm saying that if you don't you might want to consider using different words when you speak. I'm not going to "ban" the word, but I sure as hell am not going to grant much credibility to people who use it regularly and/or carelessly. | ||
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Piledriver
United States1697 Posts
On March 10 2012 04:46 shuurai wrote: The PC inquisition coming down on someone for saying a "forbidden word" when he was 8 years old? It would be ridiculous if it wasn't so dystopian. Policing language is anathema to free speech, and political correctness, albeit defensible in the case of racial slurs, is a euphemism for censorship. And if given the chance, it won't stop at racial slurs, but actually establish NewSpeak. Agreed. I think what is past, is past. People have done worse offences, and are respectable members of the community today. I don't want to name names, but some of our "pro players and foreigner hopes" have said and done things that are about twice as bad as anything orb may have said, but they get away scot free because people idolize them. People like -orb- get targeted because they are the little guys and don't have the same kind of following as some of the players do have, so people are out with the pitchforks and ready to put his neck at the guillotine because in the end, very few are going to miss him. Also these days with replay scrubbing and chatlog modification, I would hardly believe replays for proof, especially if they are provided by one person. Imagine the amount of damage I could cause, if I hated a progamer personally and upload a replay on various sites with modified chatlog. If Orb had said/done these things on stream when he was in EG, then it would have been issue and would have definitely been cause for action. But given the current situation, it is ridiculous people are just going on a witch hunt just to get a guy fired because he said the "n_" word in the past. All we need is an apology and people should move on. Words are just words in the end. Actions are what count. Not words. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:04 SnuggleZhenya wrote: Well what can I say, I disagree. I trivialize homosexuality by making light of the whole situation. The idea that the usage of the word by itself has negative consequences seems like a shoddy assumption to me. I think it's you who is narrow minded, and that's why you choose to ban a word rather than understand it, and mock it, or use it recklessly, like the joke it can become. If people choose to be offended by the usage of the word, they should grow up. But no I don't think I contribute to a hateful discourse which I thoroughly dislike. And will I argue against every time I come across said discourse - and I'll continue to call my friends faggots in good faith, mostly in closed circles. Unless you yourself are a homosexual, then homosexuality is not yours to trivialize. Get over yourself. You are not part of the solution. You are part of the problem. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
On March 10 2012 04:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Aren't all people technically Africans (on an evolutionary scale), therefore making all black people Africans? Or are you distinguishing between modern dark-colored humans? EXACTLY!! Sorry for the caps. But I'm actually yelling it. African means "of Africa". This is an example of disambiguation and in many ways disassociation of the word: ![[image loading]](http://africanlanguages.net/wp-content/uploads/African.jpg) Africa is a tapestry of many cultures and is regarded as the birthplace of humanity. The problem is the obsession in America, A.F.A.I.C., of reverse-marginalizing people with elevated melanin content by making a big deal out of "black" issues. The fact that there's even a humanities course specifically directed at studying "black" sociology makes me facepalm. | ||
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
On March 10 2012 04:29 plogamer wrote: You say that words are there to confer meaning, and then criticize people for conferring meaning from Orb's choice of words. I think a lot of people are angry because this incident is challenging their perspective on racism. Rather than face it head-on, they give us twisted logic about 'meaning' or 'intention' and arguments about EG's hypocrisy (rather than demanding higher standards from EG's star players). Get used to it folks. Welcome to the mainstream. As you eloquontly put it, "grow a pair" yourself. People are intentionally conferring an absurd meaning (being: that Orb is a racist and evil evil person) to a situation that is clear cut from what I have heard: Orb raged on ladder and was hurling BM and insults at his opponent. When people start intentionally conferring the worst possible meaning from words, things go to hell really really fast. Especially when it's done to ONE guy in an organization while others that are arguably worse guys in the same organization. That reeks of discrimination and favoritism. The 'nigger is teh evilz' argument is bullshit, when you let 'faggot' and 'retarded' stand without equal action. Oh.. and about the mainstream: I have to work against this PC bullshit becoming mainstream. Being hysteric about words is ridiculous and I seriously try to get a regular common english word (lets say 'tomorrow') to be an extremely offensive word in the FSM church. Hell... THAT will be fun. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On March 10 2012 02:56 Shiori wrote: Then his moral theory is garbage. What matters is the person behind the words. You've been reading too much augustine. You should read the Analects instead. | ||
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SnuggleZhenya
596 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:06 Klondikebar wrote: Unless you yourself are a homosexual, then homosexuality is not yours to trivialize. Get over yourself. You are not part of the solution. You are part of the problem. That was a botched quote tag from me by the way, that part of the quote should be attributed to Djzapz. I've corrected it in the original post, and in the above quoted text. | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On March 10 2012 04:55 Swift118 wrote: Of course any law requires subservience from the people in which it is dictated upon. If you find it hard to believe somethings I have said you read some books on Plato, fascinating reads for anyone who has a brain. Completely took 'subservience' out of context. Since it was in response to your post about conquering blacks by criminalizing hate speech. Your argument would imply that those who criminalize murder are the real criminals. But I guess you think you've seen it all because you took a step out of the cave. | ||
Chill
Calgary25988 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:01 plogamer wrote: Common sense is to take the most effective measure against your perceived problem. And the sponser (boss' boss) would have responded to the complaint by asking the people talk to the direct boss if they felt the same as you. Are we talking short term or long term? How many times will the sponsors accept this kind of reaction before they decide to shut it all down and pull out of the scene? So while using your definition of common sense I should burn my house down to solve a termite problem? It's the most effective measure to ensure they are 100% destroyed. So let's burn Starcraft down! Come on. Edit: The more I think about what you wrote, the more absurd it is. Line at the airport? Pull the fire alarm! Going to miss your exam? Call in a bomb threat! Common sense fighting! | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:10 SnuggleZhenya wrote: That was a botched quote tag from me by the way, that part of the quote should be attributed to Djzapz. I've corrected it in the original post, and in the above quoted text. Ok. That's fine. But it irks me to no end when heterosexuals claim to "trivialize" the abuse I've had to endure as a gay man like they're fighting some righteous battle for me. I will trivialize it if that's how I want to deal with it. Everyone else better take it seriously. | ||
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Bokchoy
55 Posts
that does not excuse is *swering* but rlyyyy ... i mean he said that a year ago and that was recorded LOL is This Politic omg | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:04 SnuggleZhenya wrote: Shoddy assumption? Read some literature on discourse, because I don't think we are using the word the same way. (If you want the short version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse#Postmodernism). I'm not offended by the word, I'm offended by your utter lack of historical perspective which apparently allows you to use a word with humorous intent when less than a half century ago you could be arbitrarily arrested, beaten, or killed while being called it. In a society where half the country will say outright you are going to burn in hell for it, prevent you from getting married to your partner, and would love to go right back to that previously mentioned era if they could get away with it. Maybe you live in a tolerant area and you don't see it, I don't know. Lest you forget incidents like this still happen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard I don't think you hate gay people. But I'm saying that if you don't you might want to consider using different words when you speak. I'm not going to "ban" the word, but I sure as hell am not going to grant much credibility to people who use it regularly and/or carelessly. I know what's behind it all, I just don't think I'm doing anything wrong. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:11 Klondikebar wrote: Ok. That's fine. But it irks me to no end when heterosexuals claim to "trivialize" the abuse I've had to endure as a gay man like they're fighting some righteous battle for me. I will trivialize it if that's how I want to deal with it. Everyone else better take it seriously. It's stupid when kids try to justify their own lack of introspection by claiming to be engaged in some sort of nebulous and poorly theorized fight against oppression. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
esports will never get off the ground if public facing community members use language like that | ||
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