EPTIf you were able to win your argument and make others find a few certain words no longer hurtful, then you'd have no need to say them anyways. Their purpose is to be hurtful, at least seemingly in almost every context that people have gotten in trouble for using them.
Orb Dismissed from Evil Geniuses Broadcasts - Page 132
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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038 Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST | ||
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unteqair
United States308 Posts
If you were able to win your argument and make others find a few certain words no longer hurtful, then you'd have no need to say them anyways. Their purpose is to be hurtful, at least seemingly in almost every context that people have gotten in trouble for using them. | ||
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DuckS
United States845 Posts
It also bewilders me that you still have someone such as IdrA (yes, and I read the twitter, just let me elaborate.) He repeated his mistake multiple times, in much more professional environments - during tournaments, tournament matches - hell, he flicked off HuK at one of the MLGs, snap his own headset.. The guy literally has 5 minute compilations of his BM/raging out on Youtube - in professional games. Yet, he's still fine. Orb tosses the n-word around (believe me, I don't defend this - but there are still certain principles here that are being overlooked) in frustration in a few laddergames on Battle.net, and gets fired after a few days. The logic is inconsistent here, and I don't really like this call by EG. But it seems like the community forced it on EG. Alex's position and analysis of the situation is very well written and spot-on, and also informed, but again, inconsistent. Where was the publicity when IdrA called people "faggots"? The community liked it coming from IdrA (The main argument at the time was that the sport "needed a bad boy"), and never reacted like it did when Orb says something equivalently bad. Why does IdrA get the second, third, and fourth choices, when Orb just kind of gets the boot? I would hope that it's not because IdrA is simply more important, but I can't seem to see the logic for the inconsistencies. So, in conclusion, I don't like EG's call here. I disagree with it, and feel the community over-reacted and forced themselves onto the situation. | ||
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SnuggleZhenya
596 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:28 biomech wrote: What a mess.. if everybody would get fired for dubious things one has done in the past probably nobody on this entire planet would stay in employment. Title this "-orb- stabbed iNcontroL in his sleep, shoplifted family jewels" and the story makes sense. "-orb- placed letters in a particular order that to some people appears highly offensive" not so much. Anyone who represents an organization in a public setting would be fired for something like this, especially if it became public, for precisely the same reason. Its simply bad business to have someone known for saying things like this representing you. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:15 sam!zdat wrote: It's stupid when kids try to justify their own lack of introspection by claiming to be engaged in some sort of nebulous and poorly theorized fight against oppression. It really is kind of hard to explain how we can all get along better by making jokes out of other people's sexuality and ethnicity. I think that allowing your perception of others to be clouded by things which are obvious (skin tone) is hurtful to building friendships or workplace cohesion with them. If your inter-racial posse of friends is cool with you making racist jokes, you may be surprised to find out that their friends AREN'T cool with it, or their parents kick you out of their house because of something you perceive to be harmless. I still don't think it's fair to tell him that, though. He has to learn for himself that everything you say requires a degree of introspection and demographic analysis. However, I also believe that a person can grow out of spouting hate speech on the internet. I also believe that people can grow out of making racist jokes to test the mettle of their friends and peers. Firing the dude just doesn't seem right. We're supposed to believe in rehabilitation and personal growth as well. I'm sure somewhere along the way Orb discovered how to behave and conduct himself properly. He did a pretty good job with EG from what I've seen. Fired for some shit that happened almost 2 years ago and a history of saying shit? But what about Orb's conduct nowadays? How much damage has been done to Orb's reputation because of this? I think what EG has done to Orb is unforgivable, and if they're really trying to set a precedent of zero tolerance towards intolerance, more heads need to roll before the PC dragon is satiated. | ||
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biomech
Germany380 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:33 Chinchillin wrote: Again, I can not respect your opinion for so many reasons for not realizing that what he did is not okay. You can not have someone using that language representing you, and the fact that you honestly don't understand the seriousness of the term, the history behind it, and what it means to millions, tens of millions, of people is simply astounding. Yeah, tell that the german guy born in the mid 80's who randomly gets called a "Nazi" for the lulz by non-german people and doesn't give a sh1t. Tell me more about history behind terms! That being said, i feel very offended by ottersareneat's use of the term "Nazi". I demand his release of the company. Wait.. imma call his sponsor! -_-' | ||
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Adila
United States874 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:36 SnuggleZhenya wrote: Anyone who represents an organization in a public setting would be fired for something like this, especially if it became public, for precisely the same reason. Its simply bad business to have someone known for saying things like this representing you. So when's Idra getting fired then? I'm expecting the next player/broadcaster to say/do something offensive to get the axe. Otherwise, this is hypocrisy at its finest. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:38 Adila wrote: So when's Idra getting fired then? I'm expecting the next player/broadcaster to say/do something offensive to get the axe. Otherwise, this is hypocrisy at its finest. If we raise hell at sponsors next time IdrA says something like that and he becomes a liability instead of a revenue stream, he will get fired. But IdrA has done a remarkable job of cleaning up his act. Something Orb refused to do for what, 3 years? | ||
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1st_Panzer_Div.
United States621 Posts
You should add direct links to the sponsor feedback webpages to make it easier for people to hit them up with positive feedback. | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:40 Klondikebar wrote: If we raise hell at sponsors next time IdrA says something like that and he becomes a liability instead of a revenue stream, he will get fired. But IdrA has done a remarkable job of cleaning up his act. Something Orb refused to do for what, 3 years? Idra brings cash to the table. He has to say more than faggot to get himself fired. Maybe if he said that sir scoots is a dumb nigger faggot and he means it he might get fired. Anyway, this community made a real mistake by bombing this. Orb is done now. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:42 ceaRshaf wrote: Idra brings cash to the table. He has to say more than faggot to get himself fired. Maybe if he said that sir scoots is a dumb nigger faggot and he means it he might get fired. Anyway, this community made a real mistake by bombing this. Orb is done now. Done in Starcraft? Yes, he is. As he should be. This is not an isolated incident. This has been an ongoing problem with him for years. TeamLiquid removed him from their featured streamer list after repeatedly talking to him about his language. He has been given many many opportunities to improve and has failed to do so. He's being shunned for his unrepentant pattern of behavior, not one single slip of the tongue. | ||
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Bronsons
Finland2 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:45 Klondikebar wrote: Done in Starcraft? Yes, he is. As he should be. This is not an isolated incident. This has been an ongoing problem with him for years. TeamLiquid removed him from their featured streamer list after repeatedly talking to him about his language. He has been given many many opportunities to improve and has failed to do so. He's being shunned for his unrepentant pattern of behavior, not one single slip of the tongue. Orb is not done. He'll get more chances. He's white! (<--KIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDIIIIING) | ||
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Carson
Canada820 Posts
Also, I challenge you to find a sports caster or the like who gets away with that sort of language. | ||
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:01 Prplppleatr wrote: Wtf..why is this not a ban? I have made this type of a joke about french people when I got a temp ban... making jokes about french people and now crying about others not getting banned doesn't make you a very fitting poster for this thread don't you think? srsly this thread is rly awesome (there are some bad parts i admit) and it makes me feel really good about this community in general awesome OP .... | ||
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Chargelot
2275 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:46 Defacer wrote: Orb is not done. He'll get more chances. He's white! (<--KIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDIIIIING) Hey, that's not literally the definition of racism that Alex gave us in the OP. Thanks for being an example of the contemporary "racist" so that everyone can see what he means. | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Snickersnee
United States241 Posts
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:48 Chargelot wrote: Hey, that's not literally the definition of racism that Alex gave us in the OP. Thanks for being an example of the contemporary "racist" so that everyone can see what he means. I knew someone would post something like this. Hook, line and sinker! | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:35 DuckS wrote: I don't know how I feel about people going behind the back and informing the sponsors about all of this when they had nothing to do with it. It basically forced EG into responding heavily about this Orb conflict. It also bewilders me that you still have someone such as IdrA (yes, and I read the twitter, just let me elaborate.) He repeated his mistake multiple times, in much more professional environments - during tournaments, tournament matches - hell, he flicked off HuK at one of the MLGs, snap his own headset.. The guy literally has 5 minute compilations of his BM/raging out on Youtube - in professional games. Yet, he's still fine. Orb tosses the n-word around (believe me, I don't defend this - but there are still certain principles here that are being overlooked) in frustration in a few laddergames on Battle.net, and gets fired after a few days. The logic is inconsistent here, and I don't really like this call by EG. But it seems like the community forced it on EG. Alex's position and analysis of the situation is very well written and spot-on, and also informed, but again, inconsistent. Where was the publicity when IdrA called people "faggots"? The community liked it coming from IdrA (The main argument at the time was that the sport "needed a bad boy"), and never reacted like it did when Orb says something equivalently bad. Why does IdrA get the second, third, and fourth choices, when Orb just kind of gets the boot? I would hope that it's not because IdrA is simply more important, but I can't seem to see the logic for the inconsistencies. So, in conclusion, I don't like EG's call here. I disagree with it, and feel the community over-reacted and forced themselves onto the situation. EG was forced into responding, yes. How heavily was EG's discretion. If you feel that there is an inconsistency, you can set it right by making complaints of Idra's behaviour. Instead, you are using it as a reason to disagree with EG's call on Orb tossing the n-word around. So how exactly are you not defending this? | ||
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Chargelot
2275 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:50 Defacer wrote: I knew someone would post something like this. Hook, line and sinker! "I'm not a racist! That's what I was going for!" I've heard this logic applied to stupid people who claim to be trolls, too. | ||
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