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On March 06 2012 11:39 TERRANLOL wrote:
Finally an argument I can understand. I always saw people complaining about Battle.net 2.0 and I disregarded it because they were complaining about chat channels even though they were in the game. But now I get it. I do remember when I logged into SC:BW, you were already in a chat channel and chat was flowing, you could see it and that gives off a feeling of its own. I would like to see this in battle.net 2.0. Not only that, but I would like to see this become a staple of battle.net 2.0. I don't want the background to be a picture of a unit and the "find match" button. I want the background to be chat, and I want the find match features listed along the side.
I really think that Blizzard has assumed that the market is fundamentally different and that things like "real ID" and a friends list are the direction that social gaming is heading. But I think they underestimate how much desire there is for a social experience with strangers too. I think they missed the boat in terms of a community forming around the game. People don't get invested in a game just because they like the game, but also because they feel like a part of something bigger, and when you see all these chat scroll and people talking, it makes you have a social connection to the game that goes beyond you friends. In much the same going to a concert feels like a social experience because everyone there is a fan of the same band. If SC2 were a concert you'd all just sit in a private room listening segregated from everyone else - it just isn't the same, even if all those other people are still technically listening.
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SC2 is my favorite game but I can't ever find good practice partners on NA. Even if I spam 4 channels for hours, I can't find anyone to play with. (as mid master)
Instead I have to ensue playing random maps and matchups all the time on ladder facing all-ins 75% of the time from people who care about their "ladder score." Like that matters...
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I think Dustin Browder has said in an interview regarding chat channels that he wants people to socialize on forums, etc., rather than in the game itself..
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On March 06 2012 08:43 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 07:23 Ubenn wrote:
So instead of wanting a good game (SC2) people want chat rooms to talk to other guys in... Maybe I just don't get it but I long onto SC2 to play against other people and get better, when I'm tired of playing I log off and do something else. Seems strange to me that people want to log onto a game then go sit in chat rooms and talk to random guys. Sounds to me that you want to play and MMO but are playing an RTS. I really don't understand people like you. For some reason you believe that the quality of SC2 would decrease with "chat rooms to talk to other guys in." How is this so? Again, joining a chat room isn't mandatory for anyone. When you're tired of playing you log off and do something else so you clearly don't play games for any sort of social reason. That's fine...but others DO want that. You're also downplaying the affect chat rooms has on fostering a community that fosters MORE GAMES PLAYED and other such things. If you really want to look at numbers SC2 is less popular than D2. I don't know how you can get around the fact that there is a problem there. Were you never on the original Bnet 1.0? You're right...you just dont' get it.
Theres plenty of ways to talk to other people on the internet and "socialize" if you call it that. Facebook ect. Why does sc2 have to be so much about social networking? I play sc2 and other games because i enjoy playing the games themselves. If i want to socialize then i go out or talk to friends on the phone. You can add all the chat channels you want but what you really want is sc2 to be something like wow or d2 which it isnt. This is an rts game and you're essentially playing the game yourself. Some people enjoy 1 player games, others dont. Thats life
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i totally agree with the article that the OP has posted.. one of the reasons why i rarely log onto battle.net anymore
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Some people log onto SC2 to play the game... apparently others log on searching for quasi-social interaction?
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On March 06 2012 12:07 Tump wrote:
SC2 is my favorite game but I can't ever find good practice partners on NA. Even if I spam 4 channels for hours, I can't find anyone to play with. (as mid master)
Instead I have to ensue playing random maps and matchups all the time on ladder facing all-ins 75% of the time from people who care about their "ladder score." Like that matters...
join channel; masters practice group
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I skype with 2 good friends and we all ladder or do customs every night. Keeps the competition up between our group.
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On March 06 2012 08:43 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 07:23 Ubenn wrote:
So instead of wanting a good game (SC2) people want chat rooms to talk to other guys in... Maybe I just don't get it but I long onto SC2 to play against other people and get better, when I'm tired of playing I log off and do something else. Seems strange to me that people want to log onto a game then go sit in chat rooms and talk to random guys. Sounds to me that you want to play and MMO but are playing an RTS. I really don't understand people like you. For some reason you believe that the quality of SC2 would decrease with "chat rooms to talk to other guys in." How is this so? Again, joining a chat room isn't mandatory for anyone. When you're tired of playing you log off and do something else so you clearly don't play games for any sort of social reason. That's fine...but others DO want that. You're also downplaying the affect chat rooms has on fostering a community that fosters MORE GAMES PLAYED and other such things. If you really want to look at numbers SC2 is less popular than D2. I don't know how you can get around the fact that there is a problem there. Were you never on the original Bnet 1.0? You're right...you just dont' get it.
Where does my post say that "the quality of SC2 would decrease with chat rooms to talk to other guys in"? Don't make things up, you just look stupid. I don't think it would decrease anything within the game, I just think it's unnecessary. There are chat channels now, I don't see what's wrong with them, I seem to be able to use them perfectly fine.
Numbers wise I could really give a shit less every time I log on I constantly play different people sometimes I'll get the same person 2 times in a row in masters. This happens far less each division you go down, that's enough people for me. I'd much rather have them work on making the game better/balanced/maps ect... Not chat rooms.
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Problems with the chat rooms: 50 person max. no passwording. no user moderation. bad integration with in game chat. barely any short / commands. piggybacks on the messaging system which has fun stuff like getting chat invites you can't ignore.
This is just from memory, but there's your problems.
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This is very true, its also an idea that has been circling around for quite awhile
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On March 06 2012 14:53 Resistentialism wrote:
Problems with the chat rooms: 50 person max. no passwording. no user moderation. bad integration with in game chat. barely any short / commands. piggybacks on the messaging system which has fun stuff like getting chat invites you can't ignore.
This is just from memory, but there's your problems.
How are any of those problems hard to fix?
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Overall, the solutions to most of these problems can come from Blizzard taking a Valve-like approach and letting go of all of this overbearing control. Certain aspects I agree need to be monitored based on experience from BW, like the UMS scene. But opening up the system to have multiple ladders customizable by communities like TL or ICCUp and allowing for a more dynamic social experience that is more customizable on the users end would really push this game far. They compared to many other game they are definitely one of the more responsive companies, but in the direction this game would like to go, we need them be more dynamic and responsive. Almost unreasonably so, thus the need for a more open source approach to many things.
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On March 06 2012 14:44 Ubenn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 08:43 Jayme wrote:On March 06 2012 07:23 Ubenn wrote:
So instead of wanting a good game (SC2) people want chat rooms to talk to other guys in... Maybe I just don't get it but I long onto SC2 to play against other people and get better, when I'm tired of playing I log off and do something else. Seems strange to me that people want to log onto a game then go sit in chat rooms and talk to random guys. Sounds to me that you want to play and MMO but are playing an RTS. I really don't understand people like you. For some reason you believe that the quality of SC2 would decrease with "chat rooms to talk to other guys in." How is this so? Again, joining a chat room isn't mandatory for anyone. When you're tired of playing you log off and do something else so you clearly don't play games for any sort of social reason. That's fine...but others DO want that. You're also downplaying the affect chat rooms has on fostering a community that fosters MORE GAMES PLAYED and other such things. If you really want to look at numbers SC2 is less popular than D2. I don't know how you can get around the fact that there is a problem there. Were you never on the original Bnet 1.0? You're right...you just dont' get it. Where does my post say that "the quality of SC2 would decrease with chat rooms to talk to other guys in"? Don't make things up, you just look stupid. I don't think it would decrease anything within the game, I just think it's unnecessary. There are chat channels now, I don't see what's wrong with them, I seem to be able to use them perfectly fine. Numbers wise I could really give a shit less every time I log on I constantly play different people sometimes I'll get the same person 2 times in a row in masters. This happens far less each division you go down, that's enough people for me. I'd much rather have them work on making the game better/balanced/maps ect... Not chat rooms.
Yeah, I also don't understand the obsession with chat rooms - in reality, it's a very easy thing to implement. However, I would rather have other things done in the game rather than chat rooms. Also, I don't believe that having chat rooms will increase the participation rate of ladder.
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Honestly I spend a lot more time on TL than actually playing SC2. I play a few games and get off. I never had that feeling in WC3, which I play everyday. In my opinion, it's more refreshing to log on and talk to other people. Finding friends in-game is pretty difficult, and very few of my real life friends know what Starcraft 2 is let alone own it.
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On March 06 2012 01:57 liberal wrote:
I don't quite understand what you think blizzard has done wrong. There are team games, there are chat channels, both staple and self-created, you can set up custom obs matches, custom ums games...
What exactly is missing that is needed? You can't compare the gameplay, because an MMO and an RTS aren't even in the same category.
I would say a big difference is the first screen you see when you log on. When you signed onto SC1 or SCBW you were automatically placed into a chat channel where people talked and it felt like an active area (I understand there was spam and immaturity, but it felt different). I think those are the kinds of simple features the OP is trying to direct attention to.
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/agree, great post and interesting article. hopefully blizzard recognizes their failure and fixes it soon, at least with HoTS.
Finding friends in SC2 is waay harder than any other blizzard game. And i completely agree that a major contributer to that is the poor UI and social interface. I always hate to see regressing in video games (whether it be in multiplayer functionality, graphics, content, UI, or whatever else developers can forget or mess up), and this is certainly exemplary of that.
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Agreed with OP. Basically, B.net 2.0 is bad for meeting new people.
SC2's B.net is fine if you have a set of friends, use mumble, and an in-game chat channel where you hang out. But what if no one's on mumble and the chat is empty? There's no way to find people to add to your friends list. I occasionally PM people after a ladder game, but it doesn't happen very often.
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Whenever stuff like this gets pointed out there are always a couple posters saying "oh well that one feature is not a big deal you guys! Just chat on reddit" or whatever. This shit adds up. Yes, poor chat room support by itself is not a deal breaker, but no shared replays, the custom game system. no lan...it all adds up.
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I agree it would be refreshing to log into sc2 and have the chat screen going away with some random topic. For multiple older other RTS's I would just jump on for the chat not necessarily the game itself.
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EPT
