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On February 29 2012 16:11 Devolved wrote:
If players don't want to be ridiculed for cheating, maybe they shouldn't cheat in the first place. I don't really know Katu's history, but imo a player deserves to be ridiculed for cheating if he has cheated, especially if it was swept under the rug like in Dragon's case to where nobody actually knows what happened.
I was completely unaware that Dragon is a cheater until Katu's revelation. Did Playhem handle this Whistleblower-story ratber poorly?
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76 Posts
On February 29 2012 10:06 BlazeTSR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 10:03 Cokefreak wrote:On February 29 2012 10:02 grtgrt1 wrote:
Who the hell is Katu? Read before making a useless post. Katu is a caster for PlayhemTV and does many of the daily casts.
Holy crap some people don't get it. 
Thank you so much for the dissing and the explaination.
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That cast was a trainwreck. I think a suspension or termination is in order.
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Seriously... over reaction by the community... The whole thing just amazes me... In any other sport the person who makes any unsavory comment quickly issues an apology and retracts their statement... If I'm not mistaken that is exactly what he did. It's not like he called Dragon Hitler or something. Yes it was not professional, nor was it even funny (as intended); however, the witch-hunt is even more of a shame than act.
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On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now?
Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job.
Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless.
I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny.
I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious.
This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke.
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This whole scenario reminds me of one of the first troll face memes:
+ Show Spoiler +
Katu's tone and insistence on making his point (especially despite Bonk's attempts to get him to stop), makes me think that he truly believed that Dragon isn't a trustworthy guy. His demeanor towards the reaction of the chat and the reaction of his co-host was a thinly veiled "Fuck You, I say what I want" to all parties there. Then his official statement, he wants everyone to believe he was jsut playing around. He can't even take responsibility for his own actions.
I don't know how anyone could see it any differently. I don't watch Playhem so I don't know Katu's personality. Before you fanboys start bitching about how I'm in no position to judge the situation, just think about it for a sec. If Playhem wants to attract new viewers, should they really keep a guy who's "trolling" is only understood by old fans? Just coming into it, all I see is some guy who treats his cohost like an inferior, treats his audience like they don't matter, and treats that professional gamer like a criminal because of something that happened YEARS ago that had already been apologized for. He had a chance to say "Just kidding guys, I'm just trolling" the moment Bonk pointed out that the chat was raging. He then went on to do some douchey, arrogant laugh and continued on his accusations while repeatedly claiming its the truth.
How is any of that respectable behavior? If youre a Katu fanboy who refuses to look at the situation from an outside point of view, how is this good for Playhem if they want to attract new viewers?
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On February 29 2012 18:11 Wrecka wrote:
Seriously... over reaction by the community... The whole thing just amazes me... In any other sport the person who makes any unsavory comment quickly issues an apology and retracts their statement... If I'm not mistaken that is exactly what he did. It's not like he called Dragon Hitler or something. Yes it was not professional, nor was it even funny (as intended); however, the witch-hunt is even more of a shame than act.
Calling Dragon Hitler would be 100 times better, because it would not really damage dragon's reputation.
Sorry, but an apology does not repair a reputation. And again, for a player with no team, having his reputation ruined is really serious.
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On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke.
Except in this case it was true.
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On February 29 2012 18:30 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke. Except in this case it was true.
not everything was correct.
Dragon was not banned from Code A nor he was kicked from SlayerS.
Dragon played in Code A Nov and got dropped if I remember correctly.
SlayerS picked him up AFTER he was exposed to stream cheat, so it was quite clear that he wasn't kicked out from SlayerS because he stream cheat
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If you would have actually read this thread (or just skimmed through it) before posting you would have seen that page being linked numerous times. So to answer your question; no, we did not forget about that.
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On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke.
Because the korean teams are known to watch playhem on a daily basis, amirite? And, the fact that almost all "former cheaters" have a team now, even though they get flak in the forum all the time, we disregard that as well? Or the fact that Dragon GOT a team after he cheated, so it actually cant be that big of a deal?
Its soo ridiculous - "deliberate attempt to ruin someones reputation".. Guess what, Dragon did a pretty good job himself with that. He has no reputation to speak of other than being a "former cheater", and a guy whos word is worth nothing.
And yeah, im sure Katu tried to ruin Dragons life and carreer, god, how delusional are you people? And i mean, really?
Sorry, but an apology does not repair a reputation. And again, for a player with no team, having his reputation ruined is really serious.
Ah yeah. Thats why he said "i will never play pro again", right before he played pro again after the cheating incident. Right? Funny. Look, when i quote this just standalone, it could apply to Dragon as well. An apology does not repair a reputation (being known as a cheater f.e.). Of course its really serious to be called a cheater. Or someone who is just alot of talk. But guess how you can prevent that?
Edit: to be clear, i dont try to justify Katus trolling. I dont really care about that, he will get his punishment (rightfully).
I just find it hillarious how delusional (im actually really mindboggled) some people on the forums are, accusing random people to "try to end his life!!!12!".
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On February 29 2012 18:36 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 18:30 Roxor9999 wrote:On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke. Except in this case it was true. not everything was correct. Dragon was not banned from Code A nor he was kicked from SlayerS. Dragon played in Code A Nov and got dropped if I remember correctly. SlayerS picked him up AFTER he was exposed to stream cheat, so it was quite clear that he wasn't kicked out from SlayerS because he stream cheat
Actually I was just referring to the cheating part, my bad.
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On February 29 2012 18:41 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 18:36 ETisME wrote:On February 29 2012 18:30 Roxor9999 wrote:On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke. Except in this case it was true. not everything was correct. Dragon was not banned from Code A nor he was kicked from SlayerS. Dragon played in Code A Nov and got dropped if I remember correctly. SlayerS picked him up AFTER he was exposed to stream cheat, so it was quite clear that he wasn't kicked out from SlayerS because he stream cheat Actually I was just referring to the cheating part, my bad.
imo, that is why he really deserved to be punished.
The "stream cheat" part, ok, I could see where that would be coming from.
but those accusations were absolutely wrong and should not have come out from a caster who is responsible for what he is saying to the audience.
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No. It just isn't particularly relevant.
Dragon has spent a long time now making up for his previous transgressions and generating goodwill in the community. Dragon has not been banned from playing GSL or kicked out of SlayerS due to cheating, so claiming he was is misleading and could have lead to damage to Dragon's reputation as could the accusations of current cheating.
Rumours and lies can end careers. Casters should not ever accuse someone of being a current cheater on stream unless they have cast iron evidence. It is unprofessional to the extreme.
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On February 29 2012 16:50 Scalepad wrote:
It's not offensive. Unless you're a politician for some right-wing party or something I suppose. Calling someone a communist/socialist/whatever is quite obviously a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone, really.
How is it obviously a joke?
On February 29 2012 17:45 Spieltor wrote:
that sounds like premium grade butthurt. If someone lied and said good things about me that weren't true, I wouldn't be offended whatsoever. I might correct them, but offense? No.
What are you talking about? Being a socialist isn't universally considered a compliment. In fact the vast majority of Americans would consider it an insult, although I'm not one of them. And obviously given the context Katu thinks that it's undesirable as well.
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Agree about the unprofessional part, but I didn't have greater expectations from some website that hosts a small daily online tournament anyways. They obviously can't get day9 to cast the games, so some kind of self-acclaimed commentators have to do it instead. However even these casters should be able to know that a large portion of their viewers must have been dragon fans.
Edit: Obviously Dragon was pretty dead even before building the 3rd CC so it was simply pointless to focus the cast on that part of the game for so long.
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On February 29 2012 18:30 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke. Except in this case it was true.
True or not, it really doesn't change my point.
And guess what, from the posts above it really looks like it was not true.
Of course, if the caster had no proof of what he was stating, it's even more serious, it's diffamation. It's beyond unprofesionnal, it's illegal. And dragon could very well sue him.
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On February 29 2012 19:16 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 18:30 Roxor9999 wrote:On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke. Except in this case it was true. True or not, it really doesn't change my point. And guess what, from the posts above it really looks like it was not true. Of course, if the caster had no proof of what he was stating, it's even more serious, it's diffamation. It's beyond unprofesionnal, it's illegal. And dragon could very well sue him.
He couldn't sue him we have free speech here.
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On February 29 2012 19:23 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 19:16 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 18:30 Roxor9999 wrote:On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke. Except in this case it was true. True or not, it really doesn't change my point. And guess what, from the posts above it really looks like it was not true. Of course, if the caster had no proof of what he was stating, it's even more serious, it's diffamation. It's beyond unprofesionnal, it's illegal. And dragon could very well sue him. He couldn't sue him we have free speech here.
Lies and slander with the intent of hurting someone's reputation is illegal in the United States, I think.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll224/Mackles200/TrollfaceOriginal.png)
