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On February 29 2012 19:31 Lunareste wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 19:23 Roxor9999 wrote:On February 29 2012 19:16 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 18:30 Roxor9999 wrote:On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke. Except in this case it was true. True or not, it really doesn't change my point. And guess what, from the posts above it really looks like it was not true. Of course, if the caster had no proof of what he was stating, it's even more serious, it's diffamation. It's beyond unprofesionnal, it's illegal. And dragon could very well sue him. He couldn't sue him we have free speech here. Lies and slander with the intent of hurting someone's reputation is illegal in the United States, I think.
He wasn't trying to destroy his career he was trying to be funny, which he failed at.
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Dragon plays extremely greedy, all critique except for the stream cheat accusations were valid.
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On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke.
I do beleive that saying Katu had it out for him and had this crazy plan to destroy his reputation and career is ridiculous. He made comments in the heat of the moment.
And man it really would suck if I was looking for a job, and I had stolen from my last employer, and it was broadcast to people who might potentially hire me. However he couldn't say something like that if you hadn't stolen (cheated) in the first place. I'm not saying we should hold him against it forever, I'm all for forgiveness. But it's wrong to treat Katu like this when Dragon is the one who cheated in the first place.
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On February 29 2012 19:23 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 19:16 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 18:30 Roxor9999 wrote:On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke. Except in this case it was true. True or not, it really doesn't change my point. And guess what, from the posts above it really looks like it was not true. Of course, if the caster had no proof of what he was stating, it's even more serious, it's diffamation. It's beyond unprofesionnal, it's illegal. And dragon could very well sue him. He couldn't sue him we have free speech here.
I don't konw where is the "here" you refer to, but I'm pretty sure defamation is forbidden in pretty much every country I can name (where you are free to speak).
Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation, and you might learn something about the laws in your country.
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funny how the op talks about high standards in e-sports when he makes a thread with such a stupid and inflammatory title. the original post is full of emotional bashing and is very onesided. want us to make a judgment on what this caster said? then why preface posting it with your bias?
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Canada5565 Posts
On February 29 2012 19:35 horsebanger wrote:
Dragon plays extremely greedy, all critique except for the stream cheat accusations were valid.
It seems that way to me too.
People are just bored so they look for/create drama.
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On February 29 2012 19:50 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 19:23 Roxor9999 wrote:On February 29 2012 19:16 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 18:30 Roxor9999 wrote:On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke. Except in this case it was true. True or not, it really doesn't change my point. And guess what, from the posts above it really looks like it was not true. Of course, if the caster had no proof of what he was stating, it's even more serious, it's diffamation. It's beyond unprofesionnal, it's illegal. And dragon could very well sue him. He couldn't sue him we have free speech here. I don't konw where is the "here" you refer to, but I'm pretty sure defamation is forbidden in pretty much every country I can name (where you are free to speak). Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation, and you might learn something about the laws in your country.
I'm pretty sure that he can't sue him for this. The claims might have been false, but for a conviction you have to prove that he did it to damage his reputation which is impossible because he didn't mean to do that.
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On February 29 2012 19:32 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 19:31 Lunareste wrote:On February 29 2012 19:23 Roxor9999 wrote:On February 29 2012 19:16 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 18:30 Roxor9999 wrote:On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke. Except in this case it was true. True or not, it really doesn't change my point. And guess what, from the posts above it really looks like it was not true. Of course, if the caster had no proof of what he was stating, it's even more serious, it's diffamation. It's beyond unprofesionnal, it's illegal. And dragon could very well sue him. He couldn't sue him we have free speech here. Lies and slander with the intent of hurting someone's reputation is illegal in the United States, I think. He wasn't trying to destroy his career he was trying to be funny, which he failed at.
Nope, he was trolling the chat, which on the one hand means that he didn't believe anything he said, but on the other hand displays very poor behaviour for which he apologized.
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On February 29 2012 19:50 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 19:23 Roxor9999 wrote:On February 29 2012 19:16 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 18:30 Roxor9999 wrote:On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke. Except in this case it was true. True or not, it really doesn't change my point. And guess what, from the posts above it really looks like it was not true. Of course, if the caster had no proof of what he was stating, it's even more serious, it's diffamation. It's beyond unprofesionnal, it's illegal. And dragon could very well sue him. He couldn't sue him we have free speech here. I don't konw where is the "here" you refer to, but I'm pretty sure defamation is forbidden in pretty much every country I can name (where you are free to speak). Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation, and you might learn something about the laws in your country.
If you think that a case could be made out of this then you're insane.
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What's all the fuzz about? He's not being overly bad manner. He accused Dragon of being a stream-cheater (but not necessarily in this tour) which is has been true in the past. No foul on Katus part imo, i really dont see why he should be kicked from playhem.
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On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke.
He has cheated in the past. He admitted it himself so don't try and pretend it didn't happen and that the caster just made it up. Should be everybody be banned from ever talking about what he did? I don't think the caster did it in a very sensitive way but again it was supposed to be joking around, admittedly perhaps not very well done. It seems to me a lot of Dragon fans were more angry that the truth about Dragon's past came out than anything else.
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On February 29 2012 19:54 Xxio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 19:35 horsebanger wrote:
Dragon plays extremely greedy, all critique except for the stream cheat accusations were valid. It seems that way to me too. People are just bored so they look for/create drama.
Thirded.
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Cant believe this isnt over , someone should close it..
This is overreaction , i just hope that Seeker puts Katu back for KSL , and Katu forgets this ! Its pointless and the worse is that there will be no more commentary for some small but great tourneys that katu casted..
This is like calling politicians corrupt , we know they are corrupt , but we cant accuse them of it without proofs.. Dragon has criminal record , so people talk.
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Seriously, that's pretty BS. I'm pretty much gonna refuse to watch anything having to do with this tournament for a long while. That's pretty repulsive that Katu could possibly represent this.
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Moral of the story don't troll when you are a casting. I hope this guy learns that. Even though I hate the fact he apologized for it. He says in the transcript that he was proud of himself. He was acting like he didn't care about anyone's opinion or was he just "trolling" that as well. Either way it was bad for example it would be like Coca or Byun entering the NA playhem and they lose to a random opponent and Katu goes like "nah that wasn't lag that got him it was because he fixed it...." Anywho the punishment is to probably suspend himself as a caster for a couple of weeks and hope he learns something.
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On February 29 2012 20:15 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 18:12 Elean wrote:On February 29 2012 17:42 tomatriedes wrote:
If someone had made jokes about someone like TT1's cheating past nobody would have batted an eyelid. Hell I see people do it every time he posts on TL. Why are are Korean progamers so sacrosant? This guy did cheat in the past and while he has been forgiven and we shouldn't dwell on it I don't see the harm in the odd joke or reference to it.
Oh and the line about Americans being socialists was obviously a joke- I can't believe people are taking that seriously. Are casters not allowed to make jokes now? Imagine yourself in the situation of looking for a job. Now, imagine someone broadcasting on the internet information that you stole from your last employer, and that's why you are now jobless. I'm sure you will find the "joke" funny. I have a tip for you to recognize if someone is joking, when someone says "just kidding that's not true", he is most likely joking and on the contrary, when someone says "I don't care, I'm just stating the truth", he is most likely serious. This was a clear deliberated attempt to ruin someone's reputation, career and life, not a joke. He has cheated in the past. He admitted it himself so don't try and pretend it didn't happen and that the caster just made it up. Should be everybody be banned from ever talking about what he did? I don't think the caster did it in a very sensitive way but again it was supposed to be joking around, admittedly perhaps not very well done. It seems to me a lot of Dragon fans were more angry that the truth about Dragon's past came out than anything else.
Dude, read the post you quoted. I never said it wasn't true.
When I posted it, I actually was inclined to believe that is was true.
After reading some posts, and a quick research on liquipedia etc, I changed my mind.
I now think that Dragon cheated far in the past (2010), and that he admitted it, excused himself, and has been an honest player since then. This is clearly different from what has been said : being kicked off slayers and being excluded from tournaments because of a cheating affair. So as far as I know, he was lying and spreading a calomnious rumor.
Now, it is obvious than half of the people misunderstood it. Just read this topic, there are as many people saying he was trolling(i.e. not telling the truth) as there are people saying it was actually the truth.
One thing is sure, you don't talk like that about someone unless you want to inflict damage on him, and that is inacceptable.
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I would just like to point out that you don't see people trolling all the other countless SC2 players who have had their incidents with cheating.
It is quite innapropriate to do so on air, as well as voicing new allegations, and saying its the reason he left SlayerS, especially when he's actively looking for a new team!
Just do your research and you'll be surprised how many top level SC2 players have "dark" histories.
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Why is this thread still going on? Katu was tired, did something stupid, Dragon got immensly overcompensated (not saying he is in the wrong for that at all) and that is it. People have been saying the same thing over and over again for the last 40 pages!
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On February 29 2012 21:26 GeNeSiDe wrote:
I would just like to point out that you don't see people trolling all the other countless SC2 players who have had their incidents with cheating.
It is quite innapropriate to do so on air, as well as voicing new allegations, and saying its the reason he left SlayerS, especially when he's actively looking for a new team!
Just do your research and you'll be surprised how many top level SC2 players have "dark" histories.
Well naniwa defintly doesnt
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EPT
