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I didn't watch any of the AoLs, so don't know what actually happened back then first hand, but this is my research
[GSL] Arena of Legends Finals
On October 02 2011 08:01 MrCon wrote:
The AOL is an online tournament with a line-up of star players which will be commentated in English and broadcasted live via GOMTV.net. Available only with a premium ticket. The AOL will last from September 17th to October 2nd, every Saturday and Sunday at 08:00 GMT (+00:00).
This tournament is only available with a premium ticket.
$4.99 w/ ads $9.99 w/o
Do not ask for restreams.
Calendar listing: http://www.teamliquid.net/calendar/2011/10/#event_6642
[GSL] Arena of Legends Semifinals
On October 01 2011 04:19 MrCon wrote:
The AOL is an online tournament with a line-up of star players which will be commentated in English and broadcasted live via GOMTV.net. Available only with a premium ticket. The AOL will last from September 17th to October 2nd, every Saturday and Sunday at 08:00 GMT (+00:00).
This tournament is only available with a premium ticket.
$4.99 w/ ads $9.99 w/o
Do not ask for restreams.
Calendar listing: http://www.teamliquid.net/calendar/2011/10/#event_6627
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Braavos36401 Posts
On February 23 2012 13:17 aNDRoM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 13:02 Hot_Bid wrote:On February 23 2012 12:56 Ghanburighan wrote:
I understand the viewpoint, but I do not agree with the final decision nor the way it was conducted now.
TL as always tries to be transparent but there are questions here that need to be answered. If MLG offered referral program participation and TL refused and TL offered advertising space and MLG refused, then it seems to me that it's a question of money rather than principle. Didn't MLG offer enough money through the referral program and TL wanted more for advertising? Unless we know those numbers, it's hard to take this announcement at face value.
Secondly, it seems an impossible task for MLG (or anyone) to " find a revenue model that allows them to keep running successful events." if PPV will immediately cause costs to increase and reduce their community advertising. We know that TL is the hub for all things to SC2 and not being showcased here will damage their event.
Although, I don't think TL is the cause of these problems. I can imagine that MLG did not talk to TL quite as much as they could have, nor has MLG gone to great lengths to actually pay for these services (which, to be honest, are taken for granted by many). On the other hand, the Winter Arena must be one of the most frequently mentioned topics on TL at the moment, so perhaps removing the calendar option is mostly a demonstration of attitude than an actually painful lesson being taught to MLG. Neither of these conversations (the referral program or the calendar spot) reached the point where we were negotiating prices at all. We declined to be a part of the referral program for the reasons we stated, and they did not feel we should charge anything for the calendar entry. Hot_Bid, was MLG's objection to TL charging for the calendar entry based on the fact (or assumption) that they'd pay for normal placement on the calendar? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe TL has a special sponsored section of the calendar like there is for sponsored threads. Would MLG paying have caused the creation of a special sponsored position/section of the calendar?
We do not have a special sponsored section of the calendar similar to sponsored threads, but the discussions never reached the point where anyone was asking for detailed sections. We simply disagreed about the calendar listing being different for PPV vs free streams, regardless of placement.
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I agree with TL, good decision.
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I disagree with their position. I can understand not wanting to "advertise" the event, but the calendar is a resource for people to use and see ALL the events that are occurring. This is taking away from the quality of the calendar imo, as it is no longer complete. Simply stating when the event is occurring, but not giving a stream link would be the best way. It provides an accurate, objective calendar, but does not actively encourage users to visit the site.
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On February 23 2012 13:21 Primadog wrote:I didn't watch any of the AoLs, so don't know what actually happened back then first hand, but this is my research [GSL] Arena of Legends FinalsShow nested quote +On October 02 2011 08:01 MrCon wrote:
The AOL is an online tournament with a line-up of star players which will be commentated in English and broadcasted live via GOMTV.net. Available only with a premium ticket. The AOL will last from September 17th to October 2nd, every Saturday and Sunday at 08:00 GMT (+00:00).
This tournament is only available with a premium ticket.
$4.99 w/ ads $9.99 w/o
Do not ask for restreams.
Calendar listing: http://www.teamliquid.net/calendar/2011/10/#event_6642[GSL] Arena of Legends SemifinalsShow nested quote +On October 01 2011 04:19 MrCon wrote:
The AOL is an online tournament with a line-up of star players which will be commentated in English and broadcasted live via GOMTV.net. Available only with a premium ticket. The AOL will last from September 17th to October 2nd, every Saturday and Sunday at 08:00 GMT (+00:00).
This tournament is only available with a premium ticket.
$4.99 w/ ads $9.99 w/o
Do not ask for restreams.
Calendar listing: http://www.teamliquid.net/calendar/2011/10/#event_6627
They made it free shortly after the tournament begun. I myself didn't have a ticket at that time and was able to watch it till the end,
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On February 23 2012 13:23 Kergy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 13:21 Primadog wrote:I didn't watch any of the AoLs, so don't know what actually happened back then first hand, but this is my research [GSL] Arena of Legends FinalsOn October 02 2011 08:01 MrCon wrote:
The AOL is an online tournament with a line-up of star players which will be commentated in English and broadcasted live via GOMTV.net. Available only with a premium ticket. The AOL will last from September 17th to October 2nd, every Saturday and Sunday at 08:00 GMT (+00:00).
This tournament is only available with a premium ticket.
$4.99 w/ ads $9.99 w/o
Do not ask for restreams.
Calendar listing: http://www.teamliquid.net/calendar/2011/10/#event_6642[GSL] Arena of Legends SemifinalsOn October 01 2011 04:19 MrCon wrote:
The AOL is an online tournament with a line-up of star players which will be commentated in English and broadcasted live via GOMTV.net. Available only with a premium ticket. The AOL will last from September 17th to October 2nd, every Saturday and Sunday at 08:00 GMT (+00:00).
This tournament is only available with a premium ticket.
$4.99 w/ ads $9.99 w/o
Do not ask for restreams.
Calendar listing: http://www.teamliquid.net/calendar/2011/10/#event_6627 They made it free shortly after the tournament begun. I myself didn't have a ticket at that time and was able to watch it till the end,
Ah, thanks for the confirmation 
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On February 23 2012 13:19 Noobity wrote:
I don't agree with this, necessarily. It just seems a little "tit for tat".
I don't mean that disrespectfully, though honestly I don't know how I could have put that point across not disrespectfully.
I mean, I understand how the stream and advertising stuff for TL works now, and I can't blame you guys for maintaining your integrity. I just feel, somehow, that this is like Mommy and Daddy splitting up without any of the bottle throwing and trips to the hospital most divorces come with (my parents can be angry people, what can I say). Obviously that's a very far-fetched and... well ridiculous metaphor.
I don't think TL is wrong, I don't think they're right, I think I mostly just wish there was a mutually beneficial conclusion. When it all boils down I think that MLG is already taking one hell of a PR beating. A normally neutral TL showing disagreement can't help that. I respect that we were told TL's side of things, Hot Bid, and I truly love that the integrity of the site is being upheld. I can't say I'm glad I read the thread though.
I'm going to continue to support TL, and I truly thank the entire TL.Net team for what they've done for the scene. I just can't shake this bad feeling I have for 2012 eSports.
Your metaphor is kinda alarming =/ I'm worried about you bro
Anyway, their rules clearly state that the calendar is for information, not advertising of events, so they don't list events with no free stream. That's the rule, and they should follow it. They should not bend their rules just because MLG is some big tournament. They didn't for GOM when AoL was PPV only, they shouldn't now. The only reason this post was made was to make it clear that the rules are being followed. Not sure why you are so bothered by this decision, but I do understand that the whole MLG thing is important for esports so everyone is keeping an eye on the situation, not just the event.
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On February 23 2012 13:19 Zidane wrote:
MLG just needs to pay already. No one is going to watch their stream that didn't already decide to weeks before - unless they get featured on TL calendar that weekend.
It will be close to impossible to visit TL without getting informed that MLG is currently running. News threads and the Live report threads and so on. TL members are even attending the event so I am sure the TL twitter along with each players personal twitter will be talking about it
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One of the best things about TL is how they stay true to their principles. Good job TL.
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Braavos36401 Posts
I do not believe GSL AoL was PPV-only without a free stream option (maybe it was at first?), perhaps we were mistaken about it. Regardless, it does not change our policy on it, if GSL were to come out with a pay-only tournament tomorrow we would treat it the same way.
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Totally agree with this decision. Really appreciate the professionalism that comes from this site.
On February 23 2012 13:25 Hot_Bid wrote:
I do not believe it was PPV-only without a free stream option, perhaps we were mistaken about it?
Regardless, it does not change our policy on it, if GSL were to come out with a pay-only tournament tomorrow we would treat it the same way.
Only the very first AoL was pay only, so you were not mistaken, the recent two have been provided with a free option.
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So, is it possible that TL and MLG will come to an agreement that involves MLG paying for a listing or sponsored thread of some sort?
EDIT: i need to learn to read. I see that MLG refused =(
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Now we have to navigate the MLG website to see when stream starts. WE GET IT, it's terrible!
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Well for those who have paid 20$ for that event will likely have the stream open the entire weekend anyway, so I doubt that's a problem. And IF it was so very important to MLG to be featured on TL, they still have/had the option of buying a sponsored thread. Would be kinda hypocritical to expect free advertisement for a pay-only event imo!
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On February 23 2012 13:21 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 13:17 aNDRoM wrote:On February 23 2012 13:02 Hot_Bid wrote:On February 23 2012 12:56 Ghanburighan wrote:
I understand the viewpoint, but I do not agree with the final decision nor the way it was conducted now.
TL as always tries to be transparent but there are questions here that need to be answered. If MLG offered referral program participation and TL refused and TL offered advertising space and MLG refused, then it seems to me that it's a question of money rather than principle. Didn't MLG offer enough money through the referral program and TL wanted more for advertising? Unless we know those numbers, it's hard to take this announcement at face value.
Secondly, it seems an impossible task for MLG (or anyone) to " find a revenue model that allows them to keep running successful events." if PPV will immediately cause costs to increase and reduce their community advertising. We know that TL is the hub for all things to SC2 and not being showcased here will damage their event.
Although, I don't think TL is the cause of these problems. I can imagine that MLG did not talk to TL quite as much as they could have, nor has MLG gone to great lengths to actually pay for these services (which, to be honest, are taken for granted by many). On the other hand, the Winter Arena must be one of the most frequently mentioned topics on TL at the moment, so perhaps removing the calendar option is mostly a demonstration of attitude than an actually painful lesson being taught to MLG. Neither of these conversations (the referral program or the calendar spot) reached the point where we were negotiating prices at all. We declined to be a part of the referral program for the reasons we stated, and they did not feel we should charge anything for the calendar entry. Hot_Bid, was MLG's objection to TL charging for the calendar entry based on the fact (or assumption) that they'd pay for normal placement on the calendar? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe TL has a special sponsored section of the calendar like there is for sponsored threads. Would MLG paying have caused the creation of a special sponsored position/section of the calendar? We do not have a special sponsored section of the calendar similar to sponsored threads, but the discussions never reached the point where anyone was asking for detailed sections. We simply disagreed about the calendar listing being different for PPV vs free streams, regardless of placement.
I guess my point is that highlighted placement in a sponsored section of the calendar may have changed the equation. In other words, their objection may simply be to the perception that they now had to pay for something that they previously got for free, from a certain point of view. If that foundation to their stance no longer applied, they may reconsider?
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On February 23 2012 12:56 Ghanburighan wrote:
I understand the viewpoint, but I do not agree with the final decision nor the way it was conducted now.
TL as always tries to be transparent but there are questions here that need to be answered. If MLG offered referral program participation and TL refused and TL offered advertising space and MLG refused, then it seems to me that it's a question of money rather than principle. Didn't MLG offer enough money through the referral program and TL wanted more for advertising? Unless we know those numbers, it's hard to take this announcement at face value.
Secondly, it seems an impossible task for MLG (or anyone) to " find a revenue model that allows them to keep running successful events." if PPV will immediately cause costs to increase and reduce their community advertising. We know that TL is the hub for all things to SC2 and not being showcased here will damage their event.
Although, I don't think TL is the cause of these problems. I can imagine that MLG did not talk to TL quite as much as they could have, nor has MLG gone to great lengths to actually pay for these services (which, to be honest, are taken for granted by many). On the other hand, the Winter Arena must be one of the most frequently mentioned topics on TL at the moment, so perhaps removing the calendar option is mostly a demonstration of attitude than an actually painful lesson being taught to MLG.
On your second note.. please (and this goes for others as well).. do not buy into the 'spin' that we must support the PPV model for a future in eSports to be possible. Keep in mind that ESL has been operating on a much larger scale for over 10 years. Also keep in mind that MLG has had a cash cow sitting in their basement (GameBattles) for years and have done nothing to see it become fruitful in order to sustain their frivolous overhead at their Live events. Take the decision to fly in all 32 players to the most expensive city in the world as an example.
PPV is a viable option.. that many of us can agree on..but it is not the only one and unless this event blows our minds in real production value.. I fear (personally) that it will set a very bad mark on the ability to use the model in the future.
My 2 cents..
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On February 23 2012 13:25 Hot_Bid wrote:
I do not believe GSL AoL was PPV-only without a free stream option (maybe it was at first?), perhaps we were mistaken about it. Regardless, it does not change our policy on it, if GSL were to come out with a pay-only tournament tomorrow we would treat it the same way.
gsl AOL have always only been PPV.
you guys got caught with double standards and are looking pretty dumb now, and im guessing ill be banned. Whatever, somebody needs to call you guys out. Its a stupid biased move.
User was banned for this post.
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So that's clarified. Reading the op post reminded me a bit of posts by Alex Garfield somehow, haha. 
Anyways, if PPV is supposedly the future of ESPORTS, I wonder what will become of the calendar on this community site. I do, however, for now agree with the decision.
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EPT
