On February 12 2012 09:51 Elyvilon wrote: [quote] I have tried banshee/viking/raven, it didn't work very well. You claimed that I must be low-level because I don't realize that banshee/viking/raven is good. I pointed you at some players who I'm sure we can all agree are not low-level who also apparently don't realize banshee/viking/raven is good.
I am working on strategies that improve my mechanics, they're called standard play.
This is my last post to you if you keep being ignorant. You think the Terran bio ball was always used since the beginning? Wrong. This game is still evolving. If you remember beta than you know what strategies were used. Terran's didn't always have the 1-1-1 build. They are still coming up with new strategies, so stop being an ignorant ass and try and be ahead of the curve.
Lets flip that around. Why aren't zergs trying to come up with new strategies to the relatively new endgame ghost play? Only one out of ten ZvTs even get to a MVP vs July stage at this time and I can count like 20 pro TvZs I've seen that has gotten to that point since the first time it happened, and now snipe is getting nerfed when zergs had no time to figure out new things.
What is the justification for this?
Because Zerg's have been struggling with Snipe for a while. Nothing late game can counter ghosts in the zerg army.
And terrans have been struggling with infestor broodlord longer. Nothing late game post snipe can counter it.
See what I did there? In fact, my statement is more valid than anything you've said today.
Seriously, stop complaining. The nerf was needed get over it. Now you have to build Vikings again, sorry you have to actually use that unit again. You still have snipe, its still viable, it is just not overpowered anymore. You guys got carried away not having to build Vikings since you found Snipe, well now you have to build some again.
If all you have to say is "stop complaining you were lazy and now you deserve it" don't bother responding at all.
Get over yourself hot shot.
You are so annoying. It was the same when you guys thought Protoss was overpowered and all you built were Marines. Than you found out about Ghosts and Marauders and stopped whinning. God forbide you have to use more than 1 unit to counter like 4 Zerg units. Read a book and learn something.
Again. If you got nothing constructive to say and only resort to shit talking about "us" and how dumb we are, please stop shitting up the thread.
Edit: In fact, the more of your posts I read, the more convinced I get that you're actually trolling at this stage.
I am trying to be constructive. Pretend you never knew about Ghosts and the Snipe aiblity like before, when you built Vikings to counter Broodlords. Now you have both, just that Snipe is less powerful. You guys complained less when you didn't even know about the Ghost and the Snipe ability and just built Vikings. Now combine both and you have a counter to Broodlords.
You don't...play this game do you? Or you're trolling. Can't really tell.
It is kind of a shame that the only MU where terran can really stand and fight late game is being nerfed. TvP is just so hard late game it almost feels like TvZ when they can remax instantly in your face with a proxy pylon. Terran is becoming even more of an all in race I feel.
On February 12 2012 09:23 Elyvilon wrote: [quote] And what do you plan to do with this raven? It's not close enough to seeker missile(not that seeker missile does all that much relative to mana cost anyway), PDD does almost nothing against a lategame protoss army, and autoturrets are kind of bleh.
Mind you, I do build ravens. I build them as uncloaked observers which cost 3 times as much. My mechanics are poor enough that it's worth it for me to not lose a handful of units to each DT while I'm trying to multitask or whatever.
You must be a low level player than. In which case you don't know how to play Terran properly, so your opinion losses some validity. Ever go cloak banshee with viking with raven against Protoss? Its pretty much over for the Protoss.
So, your argument is because I never go banshee/viking/raven against protoss I must be a low-level player.
I guess some other low-level players include MVP, MMA, Supernova, and Jjakji, along with every other pro.
I am so sorry than. You are right up there with MVP and MMA aren't you? Laugh. You said your mechanics are bad so find a strategy that works with that or improve your mechanics. This game hasn't been out long enough for professionals to have it completely figured out yet. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean its wrong. Just because a lot of people smoke cigarettes doesn't mean its the correct thing to do. Think of your own strategies for once and stop trying to copy them you idiot.
I have tried banshee/viking/raven, it didn't work very well. You claimed that I must be low-level because I don't realize that banshee/viking/raven is good. I pointed you at some players who I'm sure we can all agree are not low-level who also apparently don't realize banshee/viking/raven is good.
I am working on strategies that improve my mechanics, they're called standard play.
This is my last post to you if you keep being ignorant. You think the Terran bio ball was always used since the beginning? Wrong. This game is still evolving. If you remember beta than you know what strategies were used. Terran's didn't always have the 1-1-1 build. They are still coming up with new strategies, so stop being an ignorant ass and try and be ahead of the curve.
Um, actually I'm pretty sure terrans used almost exclusively marauder-based bio balls in TvP since tanks were nerfed to be 35(+15) damage back in the beta. I guess these days they're likely to be marine-based rather than marauder based since protoss use chargelot/archon instead of stalker/colossus a lot of the time. Also 1-1-1 was developed in the beta as a way to get a lot of tech out quickly and safely, it kind of died away with the tank nerf and came back with the allins.
In TvZ, mech was supposedly unbeatable up until a TL thread came up with muta magic boxing and Idra used it to beat TLO in a game where he was way behind. Marine/tank has been the basis of the terran army for a really long time.
So, um, I guess what I'm saying is that yes, the terran bio ball has been used almost since the beginning.
Newsflash guys, this person has the answer to everything. He has figured out all the Terran MU to their limits. No need to to come up with new strategies, just go bio ball since thats what the professionals are doing. I mean, they can't be wrong. They never change their strategies right?
You asked me if I thought terrans used bio balls since the beginning. I answered your question.
It is amusing how your answer to my answer is to flame me, though.
I am not, but if thats what you think ok. Guess Terran never experimented with Mech.
Well, the solution is pretty easy i guess. Change the damage of the javelins of thors from 6+6 against light to flat 12. Thors do decent against ultras, and with that change could at least overpower broodlords in smaller numbers.
No need to snipe anymore, and fungals wouldnt break any engagement (as it is now).
Edit: and terrans would at least have ONE T3 unit which is viable.
At first i thought the snipe change was bad but i guess in the scheme of things it makes sense because ghosts have an autoattack while infestors do not.
Regardless, many people seem to think with the mousescroll trick ghosts will still be able to obliterate broodlords just at a lesser rate than before. Allow me to clear up some things.
Snipe has a cooldown meaning at 25 damage for 25 micro'ing that is almost not even worth it.
Snipe actually has about a 0.5 second cooldown/casttime and the ghost cannot attack/fire during that cooldown
With the new mousescroll wheel trick you can cast a bunch of snipes at once, however its still limited by the ghost snipe cooldown so all it does is it makes all your ghosts fire instantly but still they individually have cooldowns. also ghosts cannot do their normal DPS while chain sniping.
So while chain sniping you are losing your normal DPS, but gaining snipe DPS (assuming you are chaining 25 energy snipes).
So if snipe is made 25 energy for 25 damage, it wouldnt be THAT bad as long as the 0.5 second cooldown on snipe was removed. Not only that, but the 0.5 second cooldown on snipe should not effect the firing rate of ghosts, meaning if you A-MOVE a group of ghosts then hold down the snipe button and use the mousescroll trick, you could literally spam 100 snipes in 2 seconds while also not messing any of the ghosts autoattacks up. I guess if that was possible, the change wouldnt be so bad.
However right now because snipe has like a 0.5 second cooldown AND the fact that you have to consume APM to use it AND the fact that when you use a snipe it RESETS the attack timer of ghosts resulting in less autoattack DPS, when you actually use ghosts to snipe right now you are losing dps from their autoattack damage, and with a 25 damage snipe it probably becomes completely not worth it to even use your APM to cast snipe as each bit of APM you use on snipe actually results in a minuscule amount of extra damage being created when you factor in the lost DPS from ghosts autoattacks.
The above is the main point of this post and something i think should be cleared up.
Blizzard probably already knows about it somewhat but the community doesnt completely know about it and maybe blizzard is just talking about a 25/25 snipe now the same way they talked about NP not working on massive units, but its just a tactic by blizzard to suggest a massive nerf at first and then bring in a lesser nerf in the real patch. That is just speculation, who cares, but regardless maybe there is a small percent chance the balance team isnt completely aware of how the cooldown results in lost ghost DPS meaning casting a 25 damage snipe is almost a non productive use of APM because you lose DPS for almost a miniscule amount generated damage.
So above is the main point of the post, and below is just my opinions on possible solutions.
This is just one possible solution im thinking of. These are just my opinions, and i dont know what solution blizzard will go with im just brainstorming. The MAIN part of this post is just to aware people of the snipe cooldown and how a 25 damage snipe is almost removing the spell completely as its not even worth it to click anymore, this part of the post is just opinions/brainstorming on possible solutions but if you dont like reading that kinda stuff you can just stop reading now if you like.
Okay, now moving onto my opinions.
I think because removing that 0.5 second cooldown on snipe would be hard to do, i think the easiest and simplest way to balance snipe is to make it 125 energy for 125 damage
So in conclusion, I think 1 energy for 1 damage on snipe is not a bad balance move because one 2food ghost can dish out 200 energy for 200 damage and that means 2 ghosts at 4food can instantly destroy a 4food broodlord while still surviving to live another day and regenerate energy and do it again, but 25 damage on snipe is just pitiful and not worth the APM clicks.
So i suggest making snipe 125 energy for 125 damage, or possibly 100 energy for 100 damage. This would allow ghosts to almost 1shot zealots and still with max energy bars ghosts lategame would still do the dirty and kill broodlords/ultras quickly. But at a lesser rate than current.
Lets look at my proposed idea. 3ghosts vs 2 ultralisks, both cost 6food. 4ghosts with max upgrades and energy bars could launch 4 snipes at a ultralisk and deal 500 damage to it, leaving it with 1health to get 1shotted and then launch 2snipes at the other ultra dealing 250 damage leaving it with 250 health remaining and the 6ghosts can autoattack and kill the other one shortly after.
So with my change ghosts would still destroy ultras and broodlords, and but it requires them to regenerate to 125 energy on all of them, and its HARD to produce plenty ghosts, and infestor fungals with mass ling swarms would still #!#@ ghosts, and my change still follows the 1energy for 1damage guideline that blizzard wants to follow.
However, zergs reading the above description may still feel thats overpowered, because they might think "dang, the reason they are nerfing snipe is cuz is kills ultras and broods too well, with your change it almost seems like a buff because 6ghosts will still destroy 2ultras"
And you know what zergs, maybe you are right. Maybe it should be 75 energy for 50 damage. Maybe 150 energy for 125 damage (which would still lead to my scenario happening, but it would cost more energy to do it increasing the reload time). I dont know what exactly the main final solution will be, thats why this part of my post is just my opinions. The main part of this post was explaining how a 25 damage snipe is pretty pointless, and my opinions are just my opinions, so yes zergs maybe your right, i dont know, these are just my opinions and i think brainstorming is a good thing.
Further thoughts. A comparing fungal damage i remember seeing a game where MVP had 30 spread +3 vikings trying to counter broodlords and they were still destroyed by infestors. I forget who he was facing tho. Id say in that game even with good spreads it was normal to deal 300 damage for 75 energy with the fungals on vikings. that is insane. thats 4 damage for 1 energy. One might think fungal is way too good compared to snipe if they compare the two spells.
But I think the balance lies in the fact that multiple infestors cannot really "stack" their damage instantly, while many ghosts can stack their damage instantly with snipe. These two properties of the spells can create a trade off balance between the two spells where they both are strong in different areas but pretty well balanced in the scheme of things.
Based on the spells mechanics and how infestors do DoT damage in a AoE, and snipe is a instant unload of all energy damage instantly, the mechanics seem to suggest infestors are stronger early, but when the terran has a 200food army with a ton of ghosts the "stacking" effect kicks in and ghosts are able to instantly unload all their damage while infestors must "wait" for the DoT spell to finish before turning more energy into more damage. So based on these mechanics blizzard has to come up with some kind of number scheme they feel is fair given the two spells properties and you dont want ghosts to be too powerful in that lategame scenario, possibly only just as powerful as the infestors.
I dont know what numbers blizzard will finalize with, the point of this post was just to aware everyone how 25 damage snipes are pretty worthless. With that said, whatever solution ultimate is reached will probably be a good one so i guess lets just wait and see.
Watch this game between morrow and leenock. I think if snipe was 125 energy for 125 damage, morrow could do the same thing in the game (murdering broodlords with snipe) however it would take less apm to pull off. So once again zergs might think 125 energy for 125 damage is pretty OP, and maybe you are right, whatever numbers are finalized i hope blizzard spends plenty of time trying to come up with the perfect numbers.
I dunno about this change. I didn't feel like snipe was op...
Well, even as a random player, i knew the nerf was coming, because honestly, its too strong. But! The problem is, its your only chance. Or better, was, if it goes live at some point.
I will repeat myself, the nerf is needed - but to compensate, 6+6 against light air units on thors should go up to a flat 12, to make at least one terran T3 unit viable against zerg. Thors do not bad against ultras, and with that change, they could stand broodlords (if in greater number than the BLs and with proper positioning to not clump up) as well. And would not die to fungals immediatly, as almost everything else would do.
The snipe change in for TvZ is going to break that matchup. Ghosts snipe was being abused, but that is because late game zerg compositions are, in all respects, are imbalanced due to the infestor. Ghosts were the only way for terran to compete late game with a zerg army. Mech isn't viable, bio mech isn't viable, and bio isn't viable either. Ghosts were a nitch late game unit that could allow a terran to super turtle their way to vicotory. With this change to snipe, the spell is almost useless now. A terran would need to have almost twice as many ghosts, or twice as much energy, in order for them to have the same utility. Not to mention, twice as many would have to be in sniping range, ect ect its a nightmare. A zerg has a significant advantage mid game in tvz because of the efficiency of ling banneling muta. With this patch, zerg will be literally unstoppable late game. The only way to win tvz any more for terran, will be to cheese, cheese, cheese. Because if zerg gets a third base up, the game is over. There just isn't a way to win anymore late game tvz.
I agree that Blizzard are trying to soften us up for a snipe nerf by presenting something godawful and finding a compromise, so I'm not losing my shit just yet... If it goes live like this I think it'll be enough for me to lose faith in Blizzards ability to make this game good.
On February 12 2012 10:59 HypernovA wrote: Can we stop feeding killjoy? Just report him. He has brought nothing to this conversation.
I dunno about this change. I didn't feel like snipe was op...
You are funny hahaha. You say I haven't brought anything to this conversation, yet look at your post. All you said was you didn't feel Snipe was overpowered. Nothing to back up that conclusion. A 5 year could have said the same thing that you just said. Don't you just love hypocrisy?
On February 12 2012 10:58 roymarthyup wrote: At first i thought the snipe change was bad but i guess in the scheme of things it makes sense because ghosts have an autoattack while infestors do not.
Regardless, many people seem to think with the mousescroll trick ghosts will still be able to obliterate broodlords just at a lesser rate than before. Allow me to clear up some things.
Snipe has a cooldown meaning at 25 damage for 25 micro'ing that is almost not even worth it.
Snipe actually has about a 0.5 second cooldown/casttime and the ghost cannot attack/fire during that cooldown
With the new mousescroll wheel trick you can cast a bunch of snipes at once, however its still limited by the ghost snipe cooldown so all it does is it makes all your ghosts fire instantly but still they individually have cooldowns. also ghosts cannot do their normal DPS while chain sniping.
So while chain sniping you are losing your normal DPS, but gaining snipe DPS (assuming you are chaining 25 energy snipes).
So if snipe is made 25 energy for 25 damage, it wouldnt be THAT bad as long as the 0.5 second cooldown on snipe was removed. Not only that, but the 0.5 second cooldown on snipe should not effect the firing rate of ghosts, meaning if you A-MOVE a group of ghosts then hold down the snipe button and use the mousescroll trick, you could literally spam 100 snipes in 2 seconds while also not messing any of the ghosts autoattacks up. I guess if that was possible, the change wouldnt be so bad.
However right now because snipe has like a 0.5 second cooldown AND the fact that you have to consume APM to use it AND the fact that when you use a snipe it RESETS the attack timer of ghosts resulting in less autoattack DPS, when you actually use ghosts to snipe right now you are losing dps from their autoattack damage, and with a 25 damage snipe it probably becomes completely not worth it to even use your APM to cast snipe as each bit of APM you use on snipe actually results in a minuscule amount of extra damage being created when you factor in the lost DPS from ghosts autoattacks.
The above is the main point of this post and something i think should be cleared up.
Blizzard probably already knows about it somewhat but the community doesnt completely know about it and maybe blizzard is just talking about a 25/25 snipe now the same way they talked about NP not working on massive units, but its just a tactic by blizzard to suggest a massive nerf at first and then bring in a lesser nerf in the real patch. That is just speculation, who cares, but regardless maybe there is a small percent chance the balance team isnt completely aware of how the cooldown results in lost ghost DPS meaning casting a 25 damage snipe is almost a non productive use of APM because you lose DPS for almost a miniscule amount generated damage.
So above is the main point of the post, and below is just my opinions on possible solutions.
This is just one possible solution im thinking of. These are just my opinions, and i dont know what solution blizzard will go with im just brainstorming. The MAIN part of this post is just to aware people of the snipe cooldown and how a 25 damage snipe is almost removing the spell completely as its not even worth it to click anymore, this part of the post is just opinions/brainstorming on possible solutions but if you dont like reading that kinda stuff you can just stop reading now if you like.
Okay, now moving onto my opinions.
I think because removing that 0.5 second cooldown on snipe would be hard to do, i think the easiest and simplest way to balance snipe is to make it 125 energy for 125 damage
So in conclusion, I think 1 energy for 1 damage on snipe is not a bad balance move because one 2food ghost can dish out 200 energy for 200 damage and that means 2 ghosts at 4food can instantly destroy a 4food broodlord while still surviving to live another day and regenerate energy and do it again, but 25 damage on snipe is just pitiful and not worth the APM clicks.
So i suggest making snipe 125 energy for 125 damage, or possibly 100 energy for 100 damage. This would allow ghosts to almost 1shot zealots and still with max energy bars ghosts lategame would still do the dirty and kill broodlords/ultras quickly. But at a lesser rate than current.
Lets look at my proposed idea. 3ghosts vs 2 ultralisks, both cost 6food. 4ghosts with max upgrades and energy bars could launch 4 snipes at a ultralisk and deal 500 damage to it, leaving it with 1health to get 1shotted and then launch 2snipes at the other ultra dealing 250 damage leaving it with 250 health remaining and the 6ghosts can autoattack and kill the other one shortly after.
So with my change ghosts would still destroy ultras and broodlords, and but it requires them to regenerate to 125 energy on all of them, and its HARD to produce plenty ghosts, and infestor fungals with mass ling swarms would still #!#@ ghosts, and my change still follows the 1energy for 1damage guideline that blizzard wants to follow.
However, zergs reading the above description may still feel thats overpowered, because they might think "dang, the reason they are nerfing snipe is cuz is kills ultras and broods too well, with your change it almost seems like a buff because 6ghosts will still destroy 2ultras"
And you know what zergs, maybe you are right. Maybe it should be 75 energy for 50 damage. Maybe 150 energy for 125 damage (which would still lead to my scenario happening, but it would cost more energy to do it increasing the reload time). I dont know what exactly the main final solution will be, thats why this part of my post is just my opinions. The main part of this post was explaining how a 25 damage snipe is pretty pointless, and my opinions are just my opinions, so yes zergs maybe your right, i dont know, these are just my opinions and i think brainstorming is a good thing.
Further thoughts. A comparing fungal damage i remember seeing a game where MVP had 30 spread +3 vikings trying to counter broodlords and they were still destroyed by infestors. I forget who he was facing tho. Id say in that game even with good spreads it was normal to deal 300 damage for 75 energy with the fungals on vikings. that is insane. thats 4 damage for 1 energy. One might think fungal is way too good compared to snipe if they compare the two spells.
But I think the balance lies in the fact that multiple infestors cannot really "stack" their damage instantly, while many ghosts can stack their damage instantly with snipe. These two properties of the spells can create a trade off balance between the two spells where they both are strong in different areas but pretty well balanced in the scheme of things.
Based on the spells mechanics and how infestors do DoT damage in a AoE, and snipe is a instant unload of all energy damage instantly, the mechanics seem to suggest infestors are stronger early, but when the terran has a 200food army with a ton of ghosts the "stacking" effect kicks in and ghosts are able to instantly unload all their damage while infestors must "wait" for the DoT spell to finish before turning more energy into more damage. So based on these mechanics blizzard has to come up with some kind of number scheme they feel is fair given the two spells properties and you dont want ghosts to be too powerful in that lategame scenario, possibly only just as powerful as the infestors.
I dont know what numbers blizzard will finalize with, the point of this post was just to aware everyone how 25 damage snipes are pretty worthless. With that said, whatever solution ultimate is reached will probably be a good one so i guess lets just wait and see.
Watch this game between morrow and leenock. I think if snipe was 125 energy for 125 damage, morrow could do the same thing in the game (murdering broodlords with snipe) however it would take less apm to pull off. So once again zergs might think 125 energy for 125 damage is pretty OP, and maybe you are right, whatever numbers are finalized i hope blizzard spends plenty of time trying to come up with the perfect numbers.
I think it's really insightful to look at the damage/energy cost equation, and 1:1 sounds good, especially since it's 1:1 vs super-expensive and slow-building tier 3 units, not just 1:1 vs regular or spellcasting units. But as your numbers show, when you add in the element of time, you see another story - in an RTS it's really all about the DPS, since time is always the most important factor. Even if the cost of the damage seems OK, the cooldown keeps theoretical damage from becoming real damage at a point when it matters.
It's kind of like how the infestor buff was a game changer when it doubled DPS - sure the damage/energy cost was the same, but it changed the game entirely. With this patch, snipe DPS is roughly half, and the damage per cost is roughly half as well - its even more of a game changer than the fungal growth buff was in patch 1.3.
Still, I think it's totally fair vs ultras, since their armor is supposed to compensate for their melee limitations. It does seem sketchy to me about brood lords with their enormous range and the strong support of infestors/corruptors that keep Vikings from working well. Ghosts had been how Terran adapted to that. Now what? HSM? Ravens are particularly vulnerable to infestors and corruptors as well, but maybe that's a bit less with the neural parasite range nerf.
I've agreed with so many changes from so many patches by blizzard lately. I feel like they really are moving in the right direction towards a balanced game.
I wasn't much of a fan of Blizzard, especially back in the first couple seasons when some things were CLEARLY broken and it still took them months to fix them. Anyway, they are winning me over. I'm still surprised they haven't tweaked forcefields just a bit though...
For anyone in sheer panic about ghosts snipe being nerfed my suggestions.
1. Actively keep an eyeball out for when the Zerg player starts his hive.
2. Assuming you keep vigilant about scouting once you see a hive morphing ask yourself did they ever have a spire prior to this. IE: ling/infestor or ling/muta.
3. If they had a spire make sure you start preparing 2 reactor starports to potentially make vikings so if you see a greater spire you can produce vikings. If they didn't the assumption should be ultras so make sure you have something like 5 barracks with tech lab and begin producing marauders.
4. If your not sure what way they will go and they had a spire. Worst case scenario build at least the buildings for both and on occassion scan or send in an scv to see which direction they go. Once you know being to produce the units and play defensively maybe just using drops to harass.
5. If at any time you get caught off guard and you have the wrong composition to deal with deathball x headed your way. Counter their base and hope for the best in a base race rather then getting your army slaughtered then lossing.
On February 12 2012 11:28 Nerski wrote: For anyone in sheer panic about ghosts snipe being nerfed my suggestions.
1. Actively keep an eyeball out for when the Zerg player starts his hive.
2. Assuming you keep vigilant about scouting once you see a hive morphing ask yourself did they ever have a spire prior to this. IE: ling/infestor or ling/muta.
3. If they had a spire make sure you start preparing 2 reactor starports to potentially make vikings so if you see a greater spire you can produce vikings. If they didn't the assumption should be ultras so make sure you have something like 5 barracks with tech lab and begin producing marauders.
4. If your not sure what way they will go and they had a spire. Worst case scenario build at least the buildings for both and on occassion scan or send in an scv to see which direction they go. Once you know being to produce the units and play defensively maybe just using drops to harass.
5. If at any time you get caught off guard and you have the wrong composition to deal with deathball x headed your way. Counter their base and hope for the best in a base race rather then getting your army slaughtered then lossing.
On February 12 2012 11:28 Nerski wrote: For anyone in sheer panic about ghosts snipe being nerfed my suggestions.
1. Actively keep an eyeball out for when the Zerg player starts his hive.
2. Assuming you keep vigilant about scouting once you see a hive morphing ask yourself did they ever have a spire prior to this. IE: ling/infestor or ling/muta.
3. If they had a spire make sure you start preparing 2 reactor starports to potentially make vikings so if you see a greater spire you can produce vikings. If they didn't the assumption should be ultras so make sure you have something like 5 barracks with tech lab and begin producing marauders.
4. If your not sure what way they will go and they had a spire. Worst case scenario build at least the buildings for both and on occassion scan or send in an scv to see which direction they go. Once you know being to produce the units and play defensively maybe just using drops to harass.
5. If at any time you get caught off guard and you have the wrong composition to deal with deathball x headed your way. Counter their base and hope for the best in a base race rather then getting your army slaughtered then lossing.
You see, thats not the problem. The problem is, if the zerg goes broodlords/infestors, and you can barely hold that with vikings and stuff - its a coinflip on what he will remax. The second wave is what kills a terran, because marauder are worthless against broodlords, vikings are worthless against ultras (and broodlords, if the corruptorcount is high and a big fungal hits).
Edit: but im not whining, i just want to point out my suggestion on the thors, which would be flat 12 damage to air instead of the 6+6 against light now, so they can fight ultras as well as broodlords.
I wouldn't have a problem with the snipe change if Cloak was made cheaper in terms of Energy and/or Resources OR Mobeius Reactor had a reduced research time.
I really like watching ghost play. It's a skill unit that is really fun to watch in the hands of good players - somewhat like the Toss Forcefield.
Even people who don't like Terran like watching ghost play, it adds a lot to the game. One of my favourite all time SC2 memories is Thorzain vs MC in the TSL3 final on TalDareem where the 6 cloaked ghosts walked into MC's army like NINJAS and EMP'd everything, and everything died. One of the all time best SC2 moments.
Anyway, I don't want to see less ghost play I want to see more of it. This patch is promoting far less ghost play in TvZ and that is a shame. Maybe snipe needs some sort of an adjustment, but this nurf seems a bit much.
I don't want to see terrans feeling screwed in late game TvZ and resorting to 1 and 2 base all-Ins. That's bad for the game. There's too much of that already.
Watch this game between morrow and leenock. I think if snipe was 125 energy for 125 damage, morrow could do the same thing in the game (murdering broodlords with snipe) however it would take less apm to pull off. So once again zergs might think 125 energy for 125 damage is pretty OP, and maybe you are right, whatever numbers are finalized i hope blizzard spends plenty of time trying to come up with the perfect numbers.
Actually, that game convinces me a bit things could be fine with HSM and nukes replacing using ghosts for snipe - abuse the Zerg immobility with nukes/HSM.
EPT
