|
Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
ok three changes. my take on them.
Mule Change: Smart move and should have been done ages ago. though we would never have to make this change if Blizzard didnt like having an orgy with all those gold minerals.
Snipe Change: Snipe needed to be changed....but this is not the right way. now it cant even kill a drone in one hit its actually a joke. Their reasoning was because it was too good against broodlords and ultralisks right? so why didn't they just reduce damage against massive instead of everything not psionic? obvious overcompensation by blizzard.
Phoenix Change: hahahahahahahahahahaha oh wait blizzard is being serious? yep yep because an upgrade in the fleet beacon to increase range of phoeni will totally help against mutalisks. This change shows how blizzard just doesnt seem to understand how the game is played and what makes mutalisks so good against protoss. Perhaps if it was a splash damage upgrade i might get excited, and perhaps justified at such a late point. however just a range upgrade is not worth it at all.
|
On February 12 2012 09:14 Aceace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:03 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 08:53 Tulkas25 wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. We waste our time posting responses about innefective tier 3 units to counter your Tier 3 and tier 2.5 units a.k.a infestors..Have you ever wonder why ppl even if they have an economy advantage stay on marine/tank/medivac with the occasional thor???Because they have nothing to transition to..Get your facts straight.We don't like to base our game on a unit that easily dies to mass tier 1 units anyway.We want viable late game units that capitalize on our mid to late game advantage(if that exists at any given game) I implore you to think before speaking. Terran has units to transition to, here are some examples: Raven, Banshee, Battlecruiser. Terran 's refusing to try and incorporate them into their army is a whole different story. This is why I admire White Ra. He makes use of the underused Carrier and makes it a very viable and powerful unit. Just because Terran's still have yet to discover how to use these units properly is not a valid reason to say " we have nothing to transition into". No we have some options for transition. But we cannot wait for their upgrades, we cannot build toooo many production facilities, we cannot replenish our army quickly. I mean. lets think a TvZ game. T chooses mech and start upgrades. he build 5-6 factories and techlabs for tank and thor production. He reaches at least 3/0 upgrades. And you're saying "Build 10 rax and start: -Stim, Shield, Conc Shells, and 3/3 bio upgrades. orrr you say go air. Build 5 starports -Raven energy, banshee cloak, 3/3 air upgrades..." ITS IMPOSIBRUUU!!!!!
If Protoss can get 3/3/3 upgrades, Terran can upgrade Air to at least 3/0. Terran is the least dependant on gas out of all the races. If Protoss can get 3/3/3 with their limited gas, Terran can spare some gas to upgrade Air and get some Air units.
|
On February 12 2012 08:31 Doz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 08:14 Gerlan wrote:
reposting from my other thread
Hello all
With the upcoming change to snipe and possible resultant of less ghost massing, amidst all the rage and anger flying around the forums I got to thinking of how we (Terrans) can approach the dreaded Broodlord/Corruptor composition from Zerg.
Enter The Raven, if you have been playing Terran for a while you might have known that PDD used to be able to stop Broodlings, a few patches ago, that nifty little mechanic got removed, but here is where PDD may come in with 1.4.3 and beyond.
Since we already have vikings in our composition against end game Zerg we may be able to utilise raven and the PDD to our advantage, we may need to produce 2 ravens, bank up 200 energy on both (just like Protoss banks up energy on sentries for later use, same mindset here) and when the engagement comes in we would need to spread our vikings a little to minimise fungal exposure and with the help of 2+ PDDs (spread out to cover our vikings ofcourse!) to tank corruptor damage while we focus fire the broodlords!(may need a ghost or two to EMP queens if they bring them)
And think about it! now those 30 marines you have moving out won't all get blown up to pieces by 2 pesky little borrowed banes (with the help of your raven ofcorse! hah!)
So if you have any other ideas please reply and try to keep this a rage/whine free thread please!!!
Cheerios Even while this is possible, how much more demanding is than what zerg has to do to win the fight? Terran still has to spread marines, siege up their tanks, emp/snipe infestors, magic box in vikings, and drop 2 pdd's. Let's keep track, that's 4 micro intensive maneuvers, and 1 "a move" difficulty actions (seige). On top of that, it all needs to happen in about 3 seconds. Zerg first engages with brood lords, waits for marines to charge forth and fungals them, then a-moves in zerglings/banelings, and maybe transfuse a few broodlords if need be. That's 2 a-move functions, and calling it 2 micro intensive maneuvers is being pretty generous. And they can take their sweet time waiting behind an infinite wall of freely reproducing zerg units (broodlings) I get what you're saying that that's probably what will need to happen for Terrans to win, but at some point shouldn't Terrans be rewarded for having to extend so much extra effort? BL/Infestor is almost a forshadowing of that new flying unit announced for HotS, has the ability that reduces all ranged units range to 1, only difference is that version will be even more retardedly easy to pull off. Destiny, even DESTINY can be quoted on SotG as saying "I can't imagine ever losing if I have infestors and this new unit/ability" *edit in additional rant
Spread marines is 'micro intensive' ? .. yeah if you're being chased by banelings, not if you're being attacked by broodlords (check the movement speed for broodlords.. do you think it's difficult to spread marines vs thors too when you see them coming at you from the other side of the map?)
EMP'ing infestors is no more difficult than fungaling vikings/marines, you really dont have to snipe them, they're wortless once 2 emps hit them, it's actually better not to kill them, because then the zerg cant build new ones while the battle is going on.
"magic box vikings" or simply pre-spread them behind your tanks..? and once the broodlords come, you A-move them to the other side of the map and they will keep the spread pretty good, after that you need to emp aggresively to keep infestors away.
And you need to drop 2 pdd's - something that you call "Micro intensive".. !?
those 2 pdd's makes it impossible for the corruptors to hurt vikings/ravens, so you dont even have to snipe them to protect your vikings, just focus on emp'ing the infestors and putting down new pdd's when needed.
__
"BL/Infestor is almost a forshadowing of that new flying unit announced for HotS, has the ability that reduces all ranged units range to 1, only difference is that version will be even more retardedly easy to pull off. Destiny, even DESTINY can be quoted on SotG as saying "I can't imagine ever losing if I have infestors and this new unit/ability""
Yeah that's not the only thing that happens in HOTS... and it's one of the things that i think most people are quite certain wont ever go past HOTS-Beta.
Shredders: Baserace vs terran is now 100% impossible, Muta harass is SHIT, ling runbys is impossible, ling/baneling allins/attacks are Wortless vs a terran that has a shredder above his ramp, it's impossible vs a terran with an army behind that.
I think we both realise that wont happen, and neither will a damn ability that stops all ranged units.. and IF they do make it into the game, it will be along with a shit ton of other changes that will make it possible without breaking the game.
even destiny?... EVEN destiny? i love him, but he's the guy that said a platinum player could win in nesteas position on that shakuras game by a-moveing... and just the other day on his stream he was trying to explain to CombatEx why it's IMPOSSIBLE to win on that map as zerg in that sitation...
He has no idea what the game will look like then, and neither does anyone else.
|
On February 12 2012 09:23 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:16 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:08 Noocta wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. Your reasoning is stupid. If we follow that, Feedback is the most broken ability in the game, which we know it isn'"t. Think about your response a little more next time please. Feedback is not the same as snipe. Feedback can't kill any major unit I can think of. It is outranged by almost everything. Snipe > Feedback. Raven just needs to stay out of range. Same with infestor. And what do you plan to do with this raven? It's not close enough to seeker missile(not that seeker missile does all that much relative to mana cost anyway), PDD does almost nothing against a lategame protoss army, and autoturrets are kind of bleh. Mind you, I do build ravens. I build them as uncloaked observers which cost 3 times as much. My mechanics are poor enough that it's worth it for me to not lose a handful of units to each DT while I'm trying to multitask or whatever.
You must be a low level player than. In which case you don't know how to play Terran properly, so your opinion losses some validity. Ever go cloak banshee with viking with raven against Protoss? Its pretty much over for the Protoss.
|
On February 12 2012 09:26 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:14 Aceace wrote:On February 12 2012 09:03 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 08:53 Tulkas25 wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. We waste our time posting responses about innefective tier 3 units to counter your Tier 3 and tier 2.5 units a.k.a infestors..Have you ever wonder why ppl even if they have an economy advantage stay on marine/tank/medivac with the occasional thor???Because they have nothing to transition to..Get your facts straight.We don't like to base our game on a unit that easily dies to mass tier 1 units anyway.We want viable late game units that capitalize on our mid to late game advantage(if that exists at any given game) I implore you to think before speaking. Terran has units to transition to, here are some examples: Raven, Banshee, Battlecruiser. Terran 's refusing to try and incorporate them into their army is a whole different story. This is why I admire White Ra. He makes use of the underused Carrier and makes it a very viable and powerful unit. Just because Terran's still have yet to discover how to use these units properly is not a valid reason to say " we have nothing to transition into". No we have some options for transition. But we cannot wait for their upgrades, we cannot build toooo many production facilities, we cannot replenish our army quickly. I mean. lets think a TvZ game. T chooses mech and start upgrades. he build 5-6 factories and techlabs for tank and thor production. He reaches at least 3/0 upgrades. And you're saying "Build 10 rax and start: -Stim, Shield, Conc Shells, and 3/3 bio upgrades. orrr you say go air. Build 5 starports -Raven energy, banshee cloak, 3/3 air upgrades..." ITS IMPOSIBRUUU!!!!! If Protoss can get 3/3/3 upgrades, Terran can upgrade Air to at least 3/0. Terran is the least dependant on gas out of all the races. If Protoss can get 3/3/3 with their limited gas, Terran can spare some gas to upgrade Air and get some Air units.
Oh noo... You're completely missing the point.
Terran is the least dependant on gas IF he/she is going bio heavy build. Otherwise (mech or air) its extremely heavily uses gas.
And lets think again. TvZ again. Terran chooses Marine tank. (As usual  Terran reaches 3/3 bio and lets say 2/0 mech.
If you start building air or mech you STILL have to build respective buildings and addons.
If you start upgrading your air before 3/3-2/0 you'll need another armory and another gas for air upgrades. Your tank count will be decrease heavily.
And still I don't say anythink if BC-Raven-Viking..... composition against zerg. Because its really really bad... I'm just saying you can NOT transition while playing terran!
|
United States13143 Posts
On February 12 2012 09:33 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:23 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:16 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:08 Noocta wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. Your reasoning is stupid. If we follow that, Feedback is the most broken ability in the game, which we know it isn'"t. Think about your response a little more next time please. Feedback is not the same as snipe. Feedback can't kill any major unit I can think of. It is outranged by almost everything. Snipe > Feedback. Raven just needs to stay out of range. Same with infestor. And what do you plan to do with this raven? It's not close enough to seeker missile(not that seeker missile does all that much relative to mana cost anyway), PDD does almost nothing against a lategame protoss army, and autoturrets are kind of bleh. Mind you, I do build ravens. I build them as uncloaked observers which cost 3 times as much. My mechanics are poor enough that it's worth it for me to not lose a handful of units to each DT while I'm trying to multitask or whatever. You must be a low level player than. In which case you don't know how to play Terran properly, so your opinion losses some validity. Ever go cloak banshee with viking with raven against Protoss? Its pretty much over for the Protoss.
So, your argument is because I never go banshee/viking/raven against protoss I must be a low-level player.
I guess some other low-level players include MVP, MMA, Supernova, and Jjakji, along with every other pro.
|
On February 12 2012 09:25 Noocta wrote:
Snip)e only have 1 more range than Feedback.
Feedback is used to kill instantly energy unit for free.
And feedback is used on a lot more target than snipe anyway.
I'm not saying feedback is too good, just that your reasoning for snipe being OP is stupid.
Spells kill shit. For energy only. That's why they are god damn spell, and why we make god damn caster units.
Most spells can be mitigated in some manner (e.g. storm-dodging), or fail to effectively counter all units.
The key difference between Feedback and Snipe is that Feedback only counters a limited portion of the opponent's arsenal if they're using a mixed force. Snipe, on the other hand, efficiently counters every Zerg unit. Relying entirely on Feedback alone is pretty much worthless against a mixed Zerg army, but relying entirely on Snipe works just fine.
With the current snipe, the ideal endgame 200/200 TvZ army would actually be composed mostly of Ghosts if you didn't factor in mineral/gas costs. The fact is, a fully-charged Ghost is the most supply-efficient unit against every Zerg unit. The same cannot be said for Feedback or other spells, which have more narrow usages.
|
On February 12 2012 09:36 Aceace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:26 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:14 Aceace wrote:On February 12 2012 09:03 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 08:53 Tulkas25 wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. We waste our time posting responses about innefective tier 3 units to counter your Tier 3 and tier 2.5 units a.k.a infestors..Have you ever wonder why ppl even if they have an economy advantage stay on marine/tank/medivac with the occasional thor???Because they have nothing to transition to..Get your facts straight.We don't like to base our game on a unit that easily dies to mass tier 1 units anyway.We want viable late game units that capitalize on our mid to late game advantage(if that exists at any given game) I implore you to think before speaking. Terran has units to transition to, here are some examples: Raven, Banshee, Battlecruiser. Terran 's refusing to try and incorporate them into their army is a whole different story. This is why I admire White Ra. He makes use of the underused Carrier and makes it a very viable and powerful unit. Just because Terran's still have yet to discover how to use these units properly is not a valid reason to say " we have nothing to transition into". No we have some options for transition. But we cannot wait for their upgrades, we cannot build toooo many production facilities, we cannot replenish our army quickly. I mean. lets think a TvZ game. T chooses mech and start upgrades. he build 5-6 factories and techlabs for tank and thor production. He reaches at least 3/0 upgrades. And you're saying "Build 10 rax and start: -Stim, Shield, Conc Shells, and 3/3 bio upgrades. orrr you say go air. Build 5 starports -Raven energy, banshee cloak, 3/3 air upgrades..." ITS IMPOSIBRUUU!!!!! If Protoss can get 3/3/3 upgrades, Terran can upgrade Air to at least 3/0. Terran is the least dependant on gas out of all the races. If Protoss can get 3/3/3 with their limited gas, Terran can spare some gas to upgrade Air and get some Air units. Oh noo... You're completely missing the point. Terran is the least dependant on gas IF he/she is going bio heavy build. Otherwise (mech or air) its extremely heavily uses gas. And lets think again. TvZ again. Terran chooses Marine tank. (As usual Terran reaches 3/3 bio and lets say 2/0 mech. If you start building air or mech you STILL have to build respective buildings and addons. If you start upgrading your air before 3/3-2/0 you'll need another armory and another gas for air upgrades. Your tank count will be decrease heavily. And still I don't say anythink if BC-Raven-Viking..... composition against zerg. Because its really really bad... I'm just saying you can NOT transition while playing terran!
Thats funny because Protoss's seem to be able to transition into Carriers with 0/0/0 upgrades. Because I am tired of hearing Terrans whine, here is a unit composition to go for against Zerg. Get some banshees and harass Zerg expansions, you can even do this with Vikings. Main unit composition: Ghosts, Marine, Medivac, Tank, Thor, Cloaked Banshee and maybe some Vikings with a Raven or two.
|
On February 12 2012 09:33 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:23 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:16 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:08 Noocta wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. Your reasoning is stupid. If we follow that, Feedback is the most broken ability in the game, which we know it isn'"t. Think about your response a little more next time please. Feedback is not the same as snipe. Feedback can't kill any major unit I can think of. It is outranged by almost everything. Snipe > Feedback. Raven just needs to stay out of range. Same with infestor. And what do you plan to do with this raven? It's not close enough to seeker missile(not that seeker missile does all that much relative to mana cost anyway), PDD does almost nothing against a lategame protoss army, and autoturrets are kind of bleh. Mind you, I do build ravens. I build them as uncloaked observers which cost 3 times as much. My mechanics are poor enough that it's worth it for me to not lose a handful of units to each DT while I'm trying to multitask or whatever. You must be a low level player than. In which case you don't know how to play Terran properly, so your opinion losses some validity. Ever go cloak banshee with viking with raven against Protoss? Its pretty much over for the Protoss.
you must be a low level toss then, how often do you see banshee + viking + raven in tvp? that's more like a build in beta/early stage of the game. it only works on people who don't scout and are caught by surprise.
|
On February 12 2012 09:37 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:33 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:23 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:16 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:08 Noocta wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. Your reasoning is stupid. If we follow that, Feedback is the most broken ability in the game, which we know it isn'"t. Think about your response a little more next time please. Feedback is not the same as snipe. Feedback can't kill any major unit I can think of. It is outranged by almost everything. Snipe > Feedback. Raven just needs to stay out of range. Same with infestor. And what do you plan to do with this raven? It's not close enough to seeker missile(not that seeker missile does all that much relative to mana cost anyway), PDD does almost nothing against a lategame protoss army, and autoturrets are kind of bleh. Mind you, I do build ravens. I build them as uncloaked observers which cost 3 times as much. My mechanics are poor enough that it's worth it for me to not lose a handful of units to each DT while I'm trying to multitask or whatever. You must be a low level player than. In which case you don't know how to play Terran properly, so your opinion losses some validity. Ever go cloak banshee with viking with raven against Protoss? Its pretty much over for the Protoss. So, your argument is because I never go banshee/viking/raven against protoss I must be a low-level player. I guess some other low-level players include MVP, MMA, Supernova, and Jjakji, along with every other pro.
I am so sorry than. You are right up there with MVP and MMA aren't you? Laugh. You said your mechanics are bad so find a strategy that works with that or improve your mechanics. This game hasn't been out long enough for professionals to have it completely figured out yet. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean its wrong. Just because a lot of people smoke cigarettes doesn't mean its the correct thing to do. Think of your own strategies for once and stop trying to copy them you idiot.
|
United States13143 Posts
On February 12 2012 09:48 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:37 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:33 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:23 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:16 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:08 Noocta wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. Your reasoning is stupid. If we follow that, Feedback is the most broken ability in the game, which we know it isn'"t. Think about your response a little more next time please. Feedback is not the same as snipe. Feedback can't kill any major unit I can think of. It is outranged by almost everything. Snipe > Feedback. Raven just needs to stay out of range. Same with infestor. And what do you plan to do with this raven? It's not close enough to seeker missile(not that seeker missile does all that much relative to mana cost anyway), PDD does almost nothing against a lategame protoss army, and autoturrets are kind of bleh. Mind you, I do build ravens. I build them as uncloaked observers which cost 3 times as much. My mechanics are poor enough that it's worth it for me to not lose a handful of units to each DT while I'm trying to multitask or whatever. You must be a low level player than. In which case you don't know how to play Terran properly, so your opinion losses some validity. Ever go cloak banshee with viking with raven against Protoss? Its pretty much over for the Protoss. So, your argument is because I never go banshee/viking/raven against protoss I must be a low-level player. I guess some other low-level players include MVP, MMA, Supernova, and Jjakji, along with every other pro. I am so sorry than. You are right up there with MVP and MMA aren't you? Laugh. You said your mechanics are bad so find a strategy that works with that or improve your mechanics. This game hasn't been out long enough for professionals to have it completely figured out yet. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean its wrong. Just because a lot of people smoke cigarettes doesn't mean its the correct thing to do. Think of your own strategies for once and stop trying to copy them you idiot.
I have tried banshee/viking/raven, it didn't work very well. You claimed that I must be low-level because I don't realize that banshee/viking/raven is good. I pointed you at some players who I'm sure we can all agree are not low-level who also apparently don't realize banshee/viking/raven is good.
I am working on strategies that improve my mechanics, they're called standard play.
|
On February 12 2012 09:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:36 Aceace wrote:On February 12 2012 09:26 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:14 Aceace wrote:On February 12 2012 09:03 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 08:53 Tulkas25 wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. We waste our time posting responses about innefective tier 3 units to counter your Tier 3 and tier 2.5 units a.k.a infestors..Have you ever wonder why ppl even if they have an economy advantage stay on marine/tank/medivac with the occasional thor???Because they have nothing to transition to..Get your facts straight.We don't like to base our game on a unit that easily dies to mass tier 1 units anyway.We want viable late game units that capitalize on our mid to late game advantage(if that exists at any given game) I implore you to think before speaking. Terran has units to transition to, here are some examples: Raven, Banshee, Battlecruiser. Terran 's refusing to try and incorporate them into their army is a whole different story. This is why I admire White Ra. He makes use of the underused Carrier and makes it a very viable and powerful unit. Just because Terran's still have yet to discover how to use these units properly is not a valid reason to say " we have nothing to transition into". No we have some options for transition. But we cannot wait for their upgrades, we cannot build toooo many production facilities, we cannot replenish our army quickly. I mean. lets think a TvZ game. T chooses mech and start upgrades. he build 5-6 factories and techlabs for tank and thor production. He reaches at least 3/0 upgrades. And you're saying "Build 10 rax and start: -Stim, Shield, Conc Shells, and 3/3 bio upgrades. orrr you say go air. Build 5 starports -Raven energy, banshee cloak, 3/3 air upgrades..." ITS IMPOSIBRUUU!!!!! If Protoss can get 3/3/3 upgrades, Terran can upgrade Air to at least 3/0. Terran is the least dependant on gas out of all the races. If Protoss can get 3/3/3 with their limited gas, Terran can spare some gas to upgrade Air and get some Air units. Oh noo... You're completely missing the point. Terran is the least dependant on gas IF he/she is going bio heavy build. Otherwise (mech or air) its extremely heavily uses gas. And lets think again. TvZ again. Terran chooses Marine tank. (As usual Terran reaches 3/3 bio and lets say 2/0 mech. If you start building air or mech you STILL have to build respective buildings and addons. If you start upgrading your air before 3/3-2/0 you'll need another armory and another gas for air upgrades. Your tank count will be decrease heavily. And still I don't say anythink if BC-Raven-Viking..... composition against zerg. Because its really really bad... I'm just saying you can NOT transition while playing terran! Thats funny because Protoss's seem to be able to transition into Carriers with 0/0/0 upgrades. Because I am tired of hearing Terrans whine, here is a unit composition to go for against Zerg. Get some banshees and harass Zerg expansions, you can even do this with Vikings. Main unit composition: Ghosts, Marine, Medivac, Tank, Thor, Cloaked Banshee and maybe some Vikings with a Raven or two.
Man.. Please. I'm tryin to tell you why you can't do that and you're sayin what?
"Funny?"...
Yeah you can transition into carriers with 0/0/0 upgrades. Because only +1 air attack on Carriers would help. (You know every attack upgrade increase carrier dmg by 16 :S ) And also your 3 shield upgrade help carriers too. Also you have chronoboost. Your carriers will catch enemy upgrades quickly.
Thats we cannot!
-Banshee harrass on zerg expansions: You need at least 2 starport with techlabs
-Raven: If you're not using HSM PDD won't help them as it would. Zerg just retreat in miliseconds to runaway from PDD. And we cannot go after them. Because T with Siegetanks are extremely immobile and Fungal prevents running like crazy. BTW why we're making 250 gas unit for PDD? Its damn expensive..
-Tank, Thor: Its mech. You HAVE to upgrade them.
-Marine Ghost. Its bio. You HAVE to upgrade them.
Please man try being constructive. Saying funny is not constructive!
|
On February 12 2012 09:51 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:48 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:37 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:33 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:23 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:16 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:08 Noocta wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. Your reasoning is stupid. If we follow that, Feedback is the most broken ability in the game, which we know it isn'"t. Think about your response a little more next time please. Feedback is not the same as snipe. Feedback can't kill any major unit I can think of. It is outranged by almost everything. Snipe > Feedback. Raven just needs to stay out of range. Same with infestor. And what do you plan to do with this raven? It's not close enough to seeker missile(not that seeker missile does all that much relative to mana cost anyway), PDD does almost nothing against a lategame protoss army, and autoturrets are kind of bleh. Mind you, I do build ravens. I build them as uncloaked observers which cost 3 times as much. My mechanics are poor enough that it's worth it for me to not lose a handful of units to each DT while I'm trying to multitask or whatever. You must be a low level player than. In which case you don't know how to play Terran properly, so your opinion losses some validity. Ever go cloak banshee with viking with raven against Protoss? Its pretty much over for the Protoss. So, your argument is because I never go banshee/viking/raven against protoss I must be a low-level player. I guess some other low-level players include MVP, MMA, Supernova, and Jjakji, along with every other pro. I am so sorry than. You are right up there with MVP and MMA aren't you? Laugh. You said your mechanics are bad so find a strategy that works with that or improve your mechanics. This game hasn't been out long enough for professionals to have it completely figured out yet. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean its wrong. Just because a lot of people smoke cigarettes doesn't mean its the correct thing to do. Think of your own strategies for once and stop trying to copy them you idiot. I have tried banshee/viking/raven, it didn't work very well. You claimed that I must be low-level because I don't realize that banshee/viking/raven is good. I pointed you at some players who I'm sure we can all agree are not low-level who also apparently don't realize banshee/viking/raven is good. I am working on strategies that improve my mechanics, they're called standard play.
This is my last post to you if you keep being ignorant. You think the Terran bio ball was always used since the beginning? Wrong. This game is still evolving. If you remember beta than you know what strategies were used. Terran's didn't always have the 1-1-1 build. They are still coming up with new strategies, so stop being an ignorant ass and try and be ahead of the curve.
|
On February 12 2012 09:58 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:51 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:48 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:37 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:33 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:23 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:16 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:08 Noocta wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. Your reasoning is stupid. If we follow that, Feedback is the most broken ability in the game, which we know it isn'"t. Think about your response a little more next time please. Feedback is not the same as snipe. Feedback can't kill any major unit I can think of. It is outranged by almost everything. Snipe > Feedback. Raven just needs to stay out of range. Same with infestor. And what do you plan to do with this raven? It's not close enough to seeker missile(not that seeker missile does all that much relative to mana cost anyway), PDD does almost nothing against a lategame protoss army, and autoturrets are kind of bleh. Mind you, I do build ravens. I build them as uncloaked observers which cost 3 times as much. My mechanics are poor enough that it's worth it for me to not lose a handful of units to each DT while I'm trying to multitask or whatever. You must be a low level player than. In which case you don't know how to play Terran properly, so your opinion losses some validity. Ever go cloak banshee with viking with raven against Protoss? Its pretty much over for the Protoss. So, your argument is because I never go banshee/viking/raven against protoss I must be a low-level player. I guess some other low-level players include MVP, MMA, Supernova, and Jjakji, along with every other pro. I am so sorry than. You are right up there with MVP and MMA aren't you? Laugh. You said your mechanics are bad so find a strategy that works with that or improve your mechanics. This game hasn't been out long enough for professionals to have it completely figured out yet. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean its wrong. Just because a lot of people smoke cigarettes doesn't mean its the correct thing to do. Think of your own strategies for once and stop trying to copy them you idiot. I have tried banshee/viking/raven, it didn't work very well. You claimed that I must be low-level because I don't realize that banshee/viking/raven is good. I pointed you at some players who I'm sure we can all agree are not low-level who also apparently don't realize banshee/viking/raven is good. I am working on strategies that improve my mechanics, they're called standard play. This is my last post to you if you keep being ignorant. You think the Terran bio ball was always used since the beginning? Wrong. This game is still evolving. If you remember beta than you know what strategies were used. Terran's didn't always have the 1-1-1 build. They are still coming up with new strategies, so stop being an ignorant ass and try and be ahead of the curve.
Lets flip that around. Why aren't zergs trying to come up with new strategies to the relatively new endgame ghost play? Only one out of ten ZvTs even get to a MVP vs July stage at this time and I can count like 20 pro TvZs I've seen that has gotten to that point since the first time it happened, and now snipe is getting nerfed when zergs had no time to figure out new things.
What is the justification for this?
|
On February 12 2012 09:54 Aceace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:36 Aceace wrote:On February 12 2012 09:26 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:14 Aceace wrote:On February 12 2012 09:03 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 08:53 Tulkas25 wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. We waste our time posting responses about innefective tier 3 units to counter your Tier 3 and tier 2.5 units a.k.a infestors..Have you ever wonder why ppl even if they have an economy advantage stay on marine/tank/medivac with the occasional thor???Because they have nothing to transition to..Get your facts straight.We don't like to base our game on a unit that easily dies to mass tier 1 units anyway.We want viable late game units that capitalize on our mid to late game advantage(if that exists at any given game) I implore you to think before speaking. Terran has units to transition to, here are some examples: Raven, Banshee, Battlecruiser. Terran 's refusing to try and incorporate them into their army is a whole different story. This is why I admire White Ra. He makes use of the underused Carrier and makes it a very viable and powerful unit. Just because Terran's still have yet to discover how to use these units properly is not a valid reason to say " we have nothing to transition into". No we have some options for transition. But we cannot wait for their upgrades, we cannot build toooo many production facilities, we cannot replenish our army quickly. I mean. lets think a TvZ game. T chooses mech and start upgrades. he build 5-6 factories and techlabs for tank and thor production. He reaches at least 3/0 upgrades. And you're saying "Build 10 rax and start: -Stim, Shield, Conc Shells, and 3/3 bio upgrades. orrr you say go air. Build 5 starports -Raven energy, banshee cloak, 3/3 air upgrades..." ITS IMPOSIBRUUU!!!!! If Protoss can get 3/3/3 upgrades, Terran can upgrade Air to at least 3/0. Terran is the least dependant on gas out of all the races. If Protoss can get 3/3/3 with their limited gas, Terran can spare some gas to upgrade Air and get some Air units. Oh noo... You're completely missing the point. Terran is the least dependant on gas IF he/she is going bio heavy build. Otherwise (mech or air) its extremely heavily uses gas. And lets think again. TvZ again. Terran chooses Marine tank. (As usual Terran reaches 3/3 bio and lets say 2/0 mech. If you start building air or mech you STILL have to build respective buildings and addons. If you start upgrading your air before 3/3-2/0 you'll need another armory and another gas for air upgrades. Your tank count will be decrease heavily. And still I don't say anythink if BC-Raven-Viking..... composition against zerg. Because its really really bad... I'm just saying you can NOT transition while playing terran! Thats funny because Protoss's seem to be able to transition into Carriers with 0/0/0 upgrades. Because I am tired of hearing Terrans whine, here is a unit composition to go for against Zerg. Get some banshees and harass Zerg expansions, you can even do this with Vikings. Main unit composition: Ghosts, Marine, Medivac, Tank, Thor, Cloaked Banshee and maybe some Vikings with a Raven or two. Man.. Please. I'm tryin to tell you why you can't do that and you're sayin what? "Funny?"... Yeah you can transition into carriers with 0/0/0 upgrades. Because only +1 air attack on Carriers would help. (You know every attack upgrade increase carrier dmg by 16 :S ) And also your 3 shield upgrade help carriers too. Also you have chronoboost. Your carriers will catch enemy upgrades quickly. Thats we cannot! -Banshee harrass on zerg expansions: You need at least 2 starport with techlabs -Raven: If you're not using HSM PDD won't help them as it would. Zerg just retreat in miliseconds to runaway from PDD. And we cannot go after them. Because T with Siegetanks are extremely immobile and Fungal prevents running like crazy. BTW why we're making 250 gas unit for PDD? Its damn expensive.. -Tank, Thor: Its mech. You HAVE to upgrade them. -Marine Ghost. Its bio. You HAVE to upgrade them. Please man try being constructive. Saying funny is not constructive!
You guys already have Starports while Protoss still has to make them. Thats your first advantage. Secondly, we won't have +3 shields until late game. In the late game you should already have a huge amount of money, so you can afford it.
|
On February 12 2012 10:00 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:58 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:51 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:48 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:37 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:33 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:23 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:16 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:08 Noocta wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. Your reasoning is stupid. If we follow that, Feedback is the most broken ability in the game, which we know it isn'"t. Think about your response a little more next time please. Feedback is not the same as snipe. Feedback can't kill any major unit I can think of. It is outranged by almost everything. Snipe > Feedback. Raven just needs to stay out of range. Same with infestor. And what do you plan to do with this raven? It's not close enough to seeker missile(not that seeker missile does all that much relative to mana cost anyway), PDD does almost nothing against a lategame protoss army, and autoturrets are kind of bleh. Mind you, I do build ravens. I build them as uncloaked observers which cost 3 times as much. My mechanics are poor enough that it's worth it for me to not lose a handful of units to each DT while I'm trying to multitask or whatever. You must be a low level player than. In which case you don't know how to play Terran properly, so your opinion losses some validity. Ever go cloak banshee with viking with raven against Protoss? Its pretty much over for the Protoss. So, your argument is because I never go banshee/viking/raven against protoss I must be a low-level player. I guess some other low-level players include MVP, MMA, Supernova, and Jjakji, along with every other pro. I am so sorry than. You are right up there with MVP and MMA aren't you? Laugh. You said your mechanics are bad so find a strategy that works with that or improve your mechanics. This game hasn't been out long enough for professionals to have it completely figured out yet. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean its wrong. Just because a lot of people smoke cigarettes doesn't mean its the correct thing to do. Think of your own strategies for once and stop trying to copy them you idiot. I have tried banshee/viking/raven, it didn't work very well. You claimed that I must be low-level because I don't realize that banshee/viking/raven is good. I pointed you at some players who I'm sure we can all agree are not low-level who also apparently don't realize banshee/viking/raven is good. I am working on strategies that improve my mechanics, they're called standard play. This is my last post to you if you keep being ignorant. You think the Terran bio ball was always used since the beginning? Wrong. This game is still evolving. If you remember beta than you know what strategies were used. Terran's didn't always have the 1-1-1 build. They are still coming up with new strategies, so stop being an ignorant ass and try and be ahead of the curve. Lets flip that around. Why aren't zergs trying to come up with new strategies to the relatively new endgame ghost play? Only one out of ten ZvTs even get to a MVP vs July stage at this time and I can count like 20 pro TvZs I've seen that has gotten to that point since the first time it happened, and now snipe is getting nerfed when zergs had no time to figure out new things. What is the justification for this?
Because Zerg's have been struggling with Snipe for a while. Nothing late game can counter ghosts in the zerg army.
|
On February 12 2012 10:07 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 10:00 Dalavita wrote:On February 12 2012 09:58 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:51 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:48 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:37 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:33 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:23 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:16 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:08 Noocta wrote:
[quote]
Your reasoning is stupid.
If we follow that, Feedback is the most broken ability in the game, which we know it isn'"t. Think about your response a little more next time please. Feedback is not the same as snipe. Feedback can't kill any major unit I can think of. It is outranged by almost everything. Snipe > Feedback. Raven just needs to stay out of range. Same with infestor. And what do you plan to do with this raven? It's not close enough to seeker missile(not that seeker missile does all that much relative to mana cost anyway), PDD does almost nothing against a lategame protoss army, and autoturrets are kind of bleh. Mind you, I do build ravens. I build them as uncloaked observers which cost 3 times as much. My mechanics are poor enough that it's worth it for me to not lose a handful of units to each DT while I'm trying to multitask or whatever. You must be a low level player than. In which case you don't know how to play Terran properly, so your opinion losses some validity. Ever go cloak banshee with viking with raven against Protoss? Its pretty much over for the Protoss. So, your argument is because I never go banshee/viking/raven against protoss I must be a low-level player. I guess some other low-level players include MVP, MMA, Supernova, and Jjakji, along with every other pro. I am so sorry than. You are right up there with MVP and MMA aren't you? Laugh. You said your mechanics are bad so find a strategy that works with that or improve your mechanics. This game hasn't been out long enough for professionals to have it completely figured out yet. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean its wrong. Just because a lot of people smoke cigarettes doesn't mean its the correct thing to do. Think of your own strategies for once and stop trying to copy them you idiot. I have tried banshee/viking/raven, it didn't work very well. You claimed that I must be low-level because I don't realize that banshee/viking/raven is good. I pointed you at some players who I'm sure we can all agree are not low-level who also apparently don't realize banshee/viking/raven is good. I am working on strategies that improve my mechanics, they're called standard play. This is my last post to you if you keep being ignorant. You think the Terran bio ball was always used since the beginning? Wrong. This game is still evolving. If you remember beta than you know what strategies were used. Terran's didn't always have the 1-1-1 build. They are still coming up with new strategies, so stop being an ignorant ass and try and be ahead of the curve. Lets flip that around. Why aren't zergs trying to come up with new strategies to the relatively new endgame ghost play? Only one out of ten ZvTs even get to a MVP vs July stage at this time and I can count like 20 pro TvZs I've seen that has gotten to that point since the first time it happened, and now snipe is getting nerfed when zergs had no time to figure out new things. What is the justification for this? Because Zerg's have been struggling with Snipe for a while. Nothing late game can counter ghosts in the zerg army.
And terrans have been struggling with infestor broodlord longer. Nothing late game post snipe can counter it.
See what I did there? In fact, my statement is more valid than anything you've said today.
|
On February 12 2012 10:03 KiLLJoy216 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 09:54 Aceace wrote:On February 12 2012 09:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:36 Aceace wrote:On February 12 2012 09:26 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:14 Aceace wrote:On February 12 2012 09:03 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 08:53 Tulkas25 wrote:On February 12 2012 08:41 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
Let me inform you people on the reason why they nerfed the ghost's snipe ability:
In the late game, a lot of the ghosts have 150 energy saved up, if not more. When 2 ghosts can snipe an ultra or broodlord without the Terran losing any units, it's imbalanced. That is effectively removing 4-6 supply of the zerg's army, which is worth roughly 300 minerals and 200 gas, for free. Tier 3 units are meant to be the backbone of all the races' army. So when you can remove those units basically for free, there is a problem. After you remove those units all Zerg is left with are Tier 1 units, zerglings, and maybe some infestors and banelings.
Some may say thats a stretch but let me tell you, it isn't. If you have seen any Terran professionals play, you would know most of them have about 16 ghosts ( If not more ) in the late game versus Zerg. There goes 8 Ultralisks, or 16 Broodlords essentially for free.
Don't waste your time posting a response if you are going to come up with the argument of micro. It is not that micro intesive to pull off. Even if the Terran loses 4 ghosts, he/she is still ahead by miles. We waste our time posting responses about innefective tier 3 units to counter your Tier 3 and tier 2.5 units a.k.a infestors..Have you ever wonder why ppl even if they have an economy advantage stay on marine/tank/medivac with the occasional thor???Because they have nothing to transition to..Get your facts straight.We don't like to base our game on a unit that easily dies to mass tier 1 units anyway.We want viable late game units that capitalize on our mid to late game advantage(if that exists at any given game) I implore you to think before speaking. Terran has units to transition to, here are some examples: Raven, Banshee, Battlecruiser. Terran 's refusing to try and incorporate them into their army is a whole different story. This is why I admire White Ra. He makes use of the underused Carrier and makes it a very viable and powerful unit. Just because Terran's still have yet to discover how to use these units properly is not a valid reason to say " we have nothing to transition into". No we have some options for transition. But we cannot wait for their upgrades, we cannot build toooo many production facilities, we cannot replenish our army quickly. I mean. lets think a TvZ game. T chooses mech and start upgrades. he build 5-6 factories and techlabs for tank and thor production. He reaches at least 3/0 upgrades. And you're saying "Build 10 rax and start: -Stim, Shield, Conc Shells, and 3/3 bio upgrades. orrr you say go air. Build 5 starports -Raven energy, banshee cloak, 3/3 air upgrades..." ITS IMPOSIBRUUU!!!!! If Protoss can get 3/3/3 upgrades, Terran can upgrade Air to at least 3/0. Terran is the least dependant on gas out of all the races. If Protoss can get 3/3/3 with their limited gas, Terran can spare some gas to upgrade Air and get some Air units. Oh noo... You're completely missing the point. Terran is the least dependant on gas IF he/she is going bio heavy build. Otherwise (mech or air) its extremely heavily uses gas. And lets think again. TvZ again. Terran chooses Marine tank. (As usual Terran reaches 3/3 bio and lets say 2/0 mech. If you start building air or mech you STILL have to build respective buildings and addons. If you start upgrading your air before 3/3-2/0 you'll need another armory and another gas for air upgrades. Your tank count will be decrease heavily. And still I don't say anythink if BC-Raven-Viking..... composition against zerg. Because its really really bad... I'm just saying you can NOT transition while playing terran! Thats funny because Protoss's seem to be able to transition into Carriers with 0/0/0 upgrades. Because I am tired of hearing Terrans whine, here is a unit composition to go for against Zerg. Get some banshees and harass Zerg expansions, you can even do this with Vikings. Main unit composition: Ghosts, Marine, Medivac, Tank, Thor, Cloaked Banshee and maybe some Vikings with a Raven or two. Man.. Please. I'm tryin to tell you why you can't do that and you're sayin what? "Funny?"... Yeah you can transition into carriers with 0/0/0 upgrades. Because only +1 air attack on Carriers would help. (You know every attack upgrade increase carrier dmg by 16 :S ) And also your 3 shield upgrade help carriers too. Also you have chronoboost. Your carriers will catch enemy upgrades quickly. Thats we cannot! -Banshee harrass on zerg expansions: You need at least 2 starport with techlabs -Raven: If you're not using HSM PDD won't help them as it would. Zerg just retreat in miliseconds to runaway from PDD. And we cannot go after them. Because T with Siegetanks are extremely immobile and Fungal prevents running like crazy. BTW why we're making 250 gas unit for PDD? Its damn expensive.. -Tank, Thor: Its mech. You HAVE to upgrade them. -Marine Ghost. Its bio. You HAVE to upgrade them. Please man try being constructive. Saying funny is not constructive! You guys already have Starports while Protoss still has to make them. Thats your first advantage. Secondly, we won't have +3 shields until late game. In the late game you should already have a huge amount of money, so you can afford it.
I'm talking about TvZ :D ahaha.
|
On February 12 2012 10:09 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 10:07 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 10:00 Dalavita wrote:On February 12 2012 09:58 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:51 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:48 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:37 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:33 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:23 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:16 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
[quote]
Think about your response a little more next time please. Feedback is not the same as snipe. Feedback can't kill any major unit I can think of. It is outranged by almost everything. Snipe > Feedback. Raven just needs to stay out of range. Same with infestor. And what do you plan to do with this raven? It's not close enough to seeker missile(not that seeker missile does all that much relative to mana cost anyway), PDD does almost nothing against a lategame protoss army, and autoturrets are kind of bleh. Mind you, I do build ravens. I build them as uncloaked observers which cost 3 times as much. My mechanics are poor enough that it's worth it for me to not lose a handful of units to each DT while I'm trying to multitask or whatever. You must be a low level player than. In which case you don't know how to play Terran properly, so your opinion losses some validity. Ever go cloak banshee with viking with raven against Protoss? Its pretty much over for the Protoss. So, your argument is because I never go banshee/viking/raven against protoss I must be a low-level player. I guess some other low-level players include MVP, MMA, Supernova, and Jjakji, along with every other pro. I am so sorry than. You are right up there with MVP and MMA aren't you? Laugh. You said your mechanics are bad so find a strategy that works with that or improve your mechanics. This game hasn't been out long enough for professionals to have it completely figured out yet. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean its wrong. Just because a lot of people smoke cigarettes doesn't mean its the correct thing to do. Think of your own strategies for once and stop trying to copy them you idiot. I have tried banshee/viking/raven, it didn't work very well. You claimed that I must be low-level because I don't realize that banshee/viking/raven is good. I pointed you at some players who I'm sure we can all agree are not low-level who also apparently don't realize banshee/viking/raven is good. I am working on strategies that improve my mechanics, they're called standard play. This is my last post to you if you keep being ignorant. You think the Terran bio ball was always used since the beginning? Wrong. This game is still evolving. If you remember beta than you know what strategies were used. Terran's didn't always have the 1-1-1 build. They are still coming up with new strategies, so stop being an ignorant ass and try and be ahead of the curve. Lets flip that around. Why aren't zergs trying to come up with new strategies to the relatively new endgame ghost play? Only one out of ten ZvTs even get to a MVP vs July stage at this time and I can count like 20 pro TvZs I've seen that has gotten to that point since the first time it happened, and now snipe is getting nerfed when zergs had no time to figure out new things. What is the justification for this? Because Zerg's have been struggling with Snipe for a while. Nothing late game can counter ghosts in the zerg army. And terrans have been struggling with infestor broodlord longer. Nothing late game post snipe can counter it. See what I did there? In fact, my statement is more valid than anything you've said today.
agreed
terran lategame is nearly unwinnable
|
On February 12 2012 10:09 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 10:07 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 10:00 Dalavita wrote:On February 12 2012 09:58 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:51 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:48 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:37 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:33 KiLLJoy216 wrote:On February 12 2012 09:23 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 09:16 KiLLJoy216 wrote:
[quote]
Think about your response a little more next time please. Feedback is not the same as snipe. Feedback can't kill any major unit I can think of. It is outranged by almost everything. Snipe > Feedback. Raven just needs to stay out of range. Same with infestor. And what do you plan to do with this raven? It's not close enough to seeker missile(not that seeker missile does all that much relative to mana cost anyway), PDD does almost nothing against a lategame protoss army, and autoturrets are kind of bleh. Mind you, I do build ravens. I build them as uncloaked observers which cost 3 times as much. My mechanics are poor enough that it's worth it for me to not lose a handful of units to each DT while I'm trying to multitask or whatever. You must be a low level player than. In which case you don't know how to play Terran properly, so your opinion losses some validity. Ever go cloak banshee with viking with raven against Protoss? Its pretty much over for the Protoss. So, your argument is because I never go banshee/viking/raven against protoss I must be a low-level player. I guess some other low-level players include MVP, MMA, Supernova, and Jjakji, along with every other pro. I am so sorry than. You are right up there with MVP and MMA aren't you? Laugh. You said your mechanics are bad so find a strategy that works with that or improve your mechanics. This game hasn't been out long enough for professionals to have it completely figured out yet. Just because they don't do it doesn't mean its wrong. Just because a lot of people smoke cigarettes doesn't mean its the correct thing to do. Think of your own strategies for once and stop trying to copy them you idiot. I have tried banshee/viking/raven, it didn't work very well. You claimed that I must be low-level because I don't realize that banshee/viking/raven is good. I pointed you at some players who I'm sure we can all agree are not low-level who also apparently don't realize banshee/viking/raven is good. I am working on strategies that improve my mechanics, they're called standard play. This is my last post to you if you keep being ignorant. You think the Terran bio ball was always used since the beginning? Wrong. This game is still evolving. If you remember beta than you know what strategies were used. Terran's didn't always have the 1-1-1 build. They are still coming up with new strategies, so stop being an ignorant ass and try and be ahead of the curve. Lets flip that around. Why aren't zergs trying to come up with new strategies to the relatively new endgame ghost play? Only one out of ten ZvTs even get to a MVP vs July stage at this time and I can count like 20 pro TvZs I've seen that has gotten to that point since the first time it happened, and now snipe is getting nerfed when zergs had no time to figure out new things. What is the justification for this? Because Zerg's have been struggling with Snipe for a while. Nothing late game can counter ghosts in the zerg army. And terrans have been struggling with infestor broodlord longer. Nothing late game post snipe can counter it. See what I did there? In fact, my statement is more valid than anything you've said today.
And lets just ignore the months and moths where terran was doing just fine against lategame zerg without snipe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
