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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 14:51 mvtaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 14:45 SweetNJoshSauce wrote:
I love these changes. Sick of Ghosts just insta killing T3 units like they did. Looks like Terrans will have to use Ravens(for PDD) and vikings. Poor them, I'm sure they had fun A moving while they could lol So you say ghosts were a problem as they insta killed stuff and then say the terran just a moves his army? Seriously, watch MVP lose on BelShir beach when trying to use Vikings to counter broodlord corrupter infestor without ghosts, it does not and will not work if the two players enter late game in similar positions.
But that doesn't matter does it? Ghosts are op and Blizzard doesn't care about Terran lategame obviously. They only have to make sure it's impossible for zerg to lose once they have broodlords so that the majority of the people on their forums and on TL (which happen to be zerg players) can be happy.
And if you think this was a sarcastic post, no it really wasn't. It's a fact that Terrans are a minority outside of Bronze League, so most of the people who actively post on forums are either protoss or zerg players. And since blizzard always does what the majority wants, the minority (terran) will always have a harder time.
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Nice one more reason to just execute all-ins in TvZ, only playable matchup is TvT now from my T perspective.
What I don't understand is that P (HT and Sentry) and Z (Infestor) have spellcasters which can change the outcome of a fight on their selves, while the Ghost is now just in the game to counter these spellcasters (which seems to be blizzards aim with this nerf and the emp radius nerf and the max 100 shield remove nerf) and the other T spellcaster is just an expensive and vulnerable detector.
This could mean that T will get a useful spellcaster that can do shit alone (like Infestors and HTs) or that the Raven will be buffed to something useful or the game will keep being broken in my opinion because T is just missing this massive AoE damage by the mentioned spellcasters.
MULE change well it's ok but still wasn't necessary because if you miss a timing vs a Z he will be able to get a big round of drones (14-21) for his 3rd or 4th and will have a higher income, same with P as soon as he chrono-boosts probes they both (P and/or Z) give minerals away and reduce their ability to produce an army for raising their income and now you have the T MULE. As long as a T saves MULEs in the hope to get a gold expansion he gives minerals away (cause he would have mined them otherwise) and with that the ability to produce units is reduced, but he is doing so with the aim to raise his income.
I can't say something about the phoenix buff, since I play T but maybe we will see more colossi/poenix builds, now that the phoenix outranges marines.
APM/CPM useful change!
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On February 11 2012 14:45 SweetNJoshSauce wrote:
I love these changes. Sick of Ghosts just insta killing T3 units like they did. Looks like Terrans will have to use Ravens(for PDD) and vikings. Poor them, I'm sure they had fun A moving while they could lol
Hope you get banned for such a bad post
User was temp banned for this post.
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Great...Ghosts are nerfed....Snipe is not as powerful now.This is dangeous vs Z late game.
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Jesus, ENOUGH WITH THE GOLDS!!
Golds are still unbalanced in ZvP.
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On February 11 2012 15:00 Belha wrote:
Jesus, ENOUGH WITH THE GOLDS!!
Golds are still unbalanced in ZvP.
How?
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On February 11 2012 15:01 MelodyBW wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 15:00 Belha wrote:
Jesus, ENOUGH WITH THE GOLDS!!
Golds are still unbalanced in ZvP. How?
Gold base expo banelings bust on maps with no rocks on gold vs FFE
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very very interesting changes
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Like the changes overall. I think they might have overdone it with the ghost though. It already has EMP to counter spellcasters and now snipe is mainly to take out casters as well... It just doesn't feel right that a snipe wont insta-kill a zergling anymore. I think it would have been much better if they nerfed it to do -15 (or something) vs massive.
I really hope that the phoenix/fleetbeacon-play will attract more people to use carriers before they are removed.
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Look, MVP vs Nestea endgame.
That shit shouldn't be able to happen. And now it can't. Good patch 
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Give a viking buff at the fusion core too, could be interesting. +1 range or armor or something
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On February 11 2012 14:52 Jimbo77 wrote:
I believe this was discussed here already many times, but anyways, i want to express my opinion.
They want to help P to deal with mass muta harrass by increasing phoenix range that is... in fleet beacon!
They are, apparently, on high-weighted drugs. Anyone see that build FB just for phoenix upgrade is most ridiculous thing ever.
But if P can afford FB economically, why the hell not just build MS?... Why do you need phoenix in that stage of the game... I can never understand their logic.
Concerning ghost snipe:
He said that snipe counter all the Z units. Oh yeah... Exact the same way as FG counter all the T has.
If T makes lot of Vikings to counter BL (that is a good choice) he eventually get demolished to quick Ultra switch. All the world does know about that T late game problem but David Kim.
Remove FG affect Air and lot of issues would be solved immediately, and you can change ghost snipe whatever way you want.
This is really sad... Not the patch itself, but the way they try to figure this game out.
...why would you build a mothership against mass mutalisks... I'm assuming this is a late game scenario considering the idea behind it is to counter MASS mutalisks so I don't think a FB cost is going to matter that much by that point.
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wouldn't do crap Vs festors fungal. Maybe Range + attack speed upgrade. that'd be the only way to make vikings viable in TvZ lategame.
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On February 11 2012 15:08 Iksf wrote:
Give a viking buff at the fusion core too, could be interesting. +1 range or armor or something
Vikings already have +9 range, it'd be silly to give them more.
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On February 11 2012 15:08 Iksf wrote:
Give a viking buff at the fusion core too, could be interesting. +1 range or armor or something
vikings need magic dmg reduction from fusion core just like the mountain giants from wc3! :D
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On February 11 2012 15:05 Weson wrote:
Like the changes overall. I think they might have overdone it with the ghost though. It already has EMP to counter spellcasters and now snipe is mainly to take out casters as well... It just doesn't feel right that a snipe wont insta-kill a zergling anymore. I think it would have been much better if they nerfed it to do -15 (or something) vs massive.
I really hope that the phoenix/fleetbeacon-play will attract more people to use carriers before they are removed.
Thank you, best post I have read so far. Make ghost snipe do less damage vs. massive units. That way I can still use ghosts effectively against infestor. O well, kinda no point in playing terran anymore (due to everything terran uses being nerfed and all the other races being buffed or un-punished for an "OP unit."
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On February 11 2012 14:33 zmansman17 wrote:
Not a fan of all of these changes.
I agree with the pheonix range, Protoss needed that.
However, if the goal of snipe was to reduce effectiveness against ultras and broodlords, why not make it do less damage against massive instead of nerfing the daamge. This has a host of consequences, which change snipes on workers, marines, zealots, roaches, etc.
some people have mentioned this in this thread, but I don't think it is getting as much attention as it deserves.
all this talk of the snipe change effecting tvz lategame. what about the early and mid-game? ghost tech is available to be started BEFORE factory (potentially).
i must point out once again that there was an earlier patch changing ghost costs to be more mineral heavy and less gas in the effort to make them more accessible in earlier stages of the game.
since snipe is one of the few abilities a ghost can capitalize on shortly after creation (pre-mobius); such a large hit to its efficacy greatly diminishes the value of the unit before the late game.
i dunno, but i always thought there was great potential in early ghost rush builds; or even early mid game timings with one or two ghosts mixed into a solid army.
was snipe too potent against Z t3 units? hell yes it was, but this is going about it all the wrong way imo.
if blizz is so hellbent on nerfing the damage of snipe; i personally want to see nuke tech not require factory.
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tbh the phoenix change wont change much of the higher level of PvZ, toss just needs a lot of stalker archon and the zerg will eventually stop produce mutas to switch to broodlords
would you really get a fleet beacon, get phoenix range upgrade, for mutalisk only?
only time will tell ;D
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On February 11 2012 02:44 Ventor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 02:40 Thorzain wrote:
I really feel that they overdid the snipe nerf. Ghosts really isn't a counter to ultralisks (300 energy to kill 1 ultralisk), and not a hard-counter to brood lords (they are good against them but not imba).
I feel that 20 damage is too much of a removal. When snipe doesn't even one shot a baneling or a zergling, something is wrong. Will be useless against zealots as well because the normal attack is just as strong as the snipe will be against light units. Did you read the reasons for the nerf? Currently, massing ghosts is too powerful in the lategame. They don't want one unit being able to really well vs all late game zerg units.
Massing ghosts isnt as easy as most people would think.
Do watch MVP's game vs curious on daybreak this gsl.
Furthermore, what other options will Terran have against T3 zergs?
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EPT
