EPTI share the same opinion as the OP, I give him a +1.
UI still sub-par 2 years later. Why don't we care? - Page 53
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Kinzo
New Zealand3 Posts
I share the same opinion as the OP, I give him a +1. | ||
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CalmKiwi
12 Posts
On February 12 2012 13:58 Belial88 wrote: Maybe I'm painting this picture of whiny kids, and maybe it's unfair. I know a lot of you aren't like that, it's just a little easy to get carried away and see the extremist side of the other point of view. And for arguments sake, it's easier to explain myself in contrast to. Please don't take anything I say personally, if anything, it's more an attack on the POV, but definitely not against any of you. I'm just stating my opinion. I'm not saying you guys are wrong in what you think, not at all. There's no right or wrong here, it's all preference. I just feel some people fail to understand its' a choice: Balance Patches (1 supply roaches, larger, 100% energy sapping EMPs) or UI. I understand what you are trying to say, and to be fair you answered with your opinion. Like the guy a few posts back said, it wouldn't be a discussion if we all agreed on the same thing. And yes, I am aware that balancing the game should be the top priority, hell, I also want the game to be better in terms of gamplay. There are a lot of people who just come here and bash Blizzard without arguments, and I get the idea why you feel frustrated on that point, but there are a lot of people here who write a list of arguments and opinions. The logical thing was that many thought, including myself, that when Blizzard announced Battle.net 2.0, we made the asumption that it would be a whole new level. And yes, the matchmaking is perfect, I can't argue there, but other things feel a bit "clunky". And yes, when you mention money, it is a whole new ball game. We don't pay "rent", as you metnioned earlier, to Blizzard like the people playing WoW do. So I can understand that the SC2 fans are lower priority in regards to the WoW fans. Thing is, I hope Blizzard just responds with a simple answer, in theory peaceful protests are just a plea for answers. I often argue that Blizzard is taking a bigger bite than they can chew, I mean, you have to manage 3 franchises and develop a whole new MMO that is going to revolutionize MMO's, like WoW did. I can understand that this is quite a handfull. In conclusion, I just wanted to point out that, people here, including myself, don't bash because we don't have better things to do, but we "bash" because we have the passion for Blizzard and Starcraft 2, and we want it to be the best game ever. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
On February 12 2012 13:55 Belial88 wrote: There's a choice for blizzard. UI, or better balance and maps. To me, the choice is clear. Maybe blizzard should split the work, in your opinion, but I for one, am eagerly anticipating 1.4.3, and would much rather have snipe nerfs than better UI in the next month. SC2 credits on mobygames show 3.800+ people associated with SC2's production. Not counting contractors, externals and random credits, it's still reasonable to assume that we're not talking about a handful of people in a basement in Irvine handling everything. Unless you have insight into Blizzard's distribution of manpower and ressources that we're lacking, please don't repeat your mantra of "UI or balance" as if it were a fact. | ||
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Baseic
Netherlands310 Posts
The first is the point that you're making, Blizzard is busy balancing, they have a small team, everyone is on HotS. This is true, I don't find that a good excuse for Blizzard, but it's true. But the second point is that Blizzard promised improvements ever since release. Every time people started about certain problems/requests, Blizzard would react with that it's on their short-term list, and that they're thinking about it. They never deliver though, and that's the part that makes me angry. Every single time they react with a non-effort post that they're planning it, and will release/adjust it soon, meanwhile Blizzard made a new time unit "Blizzard-soons" and trust me, that's a very long time span. Also I wouldn't mind paying €5 per month just to speed up every single project. Not saying that this would be justified, but it depicts how much this bothers me. | ||
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CalmKiwi
12 Posts
On February 12 2012 20:58 Baseic wrote: Also I wouldn't mind paying €5 per month just to speed up every single project. Not saying that this would be justified, but it depicts how much this bothers me. I was thinking the same thing about your idea of paying Blizzard to fix it becuase it is a big frustration to a lot of people. Althought that wouldn't justify the matter, but I would like it to be done asap, so if small donation, but in huge numbers, would help speed up the process, I would be more than happy to pay €5 or even €10. With this idea in mind, Blizzard taking a bigger role in eSports, could solve many of the financial problems. Makes me wonder would Blizzard prioritize Starcraft more if we payed a monthly fee. | ||
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Poisonblack
452 Posts
UI being sub-par is an understatement especially considering that games (developed by the same company!) that are 10yo+ have vastly superior ones. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On February 12 2012 20:16 RayBeans wrote: I like the laddersystem as it is at the moment, I feel great ranking nr. 1 in silver and not being rank 182.731/200.000 or whatever  What is missing are open chat channels to talk to random people. And clan features. And everything else that is mentioned in the first post of this thread.  There are public chat channels where you can talk to random people. Some issues stated in the OP are not real issues, rather a misunderstanding of the OP's poster (like AT vs RT matching is fair since it uses the MMR system to match teams.) Most other points are a matter of personal taste. For example I overall like to use the SC2 Bnet UI to get fast into a game, may it be a ladder game or a custom game. I am not distracted by large public chat windows. I also like the league system better than many proposals here in the thread. There are some things which could be done better, but in my opinion WC3 is not a useful example for a good UI. I played WC3 for years and find SC2's UI much cleaner and easier to use. It also offers more features where it matters. (Party system, friends list with the option to add a note.) Some more details in the player statistics would be nice. Clan support would be great. But please no return to the Bnet 1.0 look and feel. | ||
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RayBeans
Germany331 Posts
On February 12 2012 21:41 [F_]aths wrote: There are public chat channels where you can talk to random people. Some issues stated in the OP are not real issues, rather a misunderstanding of the OP's poster (like AT vs RT matching is fair since it uses the MMR system to match teams.) Most other points are a matter of personal taste. For example I overall like to use the SC2 Bnet UI to get fast into a game, may it be a ladder game or a custom game. I am not distracted by large public chat windows. I also like the league system better than many proposals here in the thread. There are some things which could be done better, but in my opinion WC3 is not a useful example for a good UI. I played WC3 for years and find SC2's UI much cleaner and easier to use. It also offers more features where it matters. (Party system, friends list with the option to add a note.) Some more details in the player statistics would be nice. Clan support would be great. But please no return to the Bnet 1.0 look and feel. Of course there are open chat channels but no one uses them, at least not the ones officially offered (like zerg strategy talk etc.) If i remember correctly in WC3 users automatically joined an open chat channel when entering bnet, this would at least help to populate the existing channels. Otherwise i agree with your points, as they are more or less my points | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
On February 12 2012 21:41 [F_]aths wrote: Some issues stated in the OP are not real issues, rather a misunderstanding of the OP's poster (like AT vs RT matching is fair since it uses the MMR system to match teams.) You haven't played a lot of SC2 team games, have you? Oh, and do me a favor and don't assume I'm stupid, alright? There is nothing to "misunderstand", but I'll gladly elaborate on why AT vs. RT isn't fine. Regardless of matchmaking, an AT will always be in an advantageous position compared to an RT. Be it predetermined strategies or voice communitcation. Also, the matchmaking system in team games is atrocious. It will create "even teams" only on paper, usually by pairing good players with weakers ones to create an "even" team. A "real" even team will easily roflstomp such a forced composition. And finally, RTs are abused 24/7. People will sign up with premade 2/3-man teams for 3/4man team games, for example, where they're rated as RT but will obviously have a huge edge over their opponents. Most team games aren't fun. You either win against teams you're hopelessly outmatching, or you'll get stomped by a team you have no hope winning against. Every 1 in 10 games is an actual even, entertaining match. | ||
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Rafael
Venezuela182 Posts
I think Blizzard need to focus some resource on this one right away, always said that. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On February 12 2012 20:39 Shockk wrote: SC2 credits on mobygames show 3.800+ people associated with SC2's production. Not counting contractors, externals and random credits, it's still reasonable to assume that we're not talking about a handful of people in a basement in Irvine handling everything. Unless you have insight into Blizzard's distribution of manpower and ressources that we're lacking, please don't repeat your mantra of "UI or balance" as if it were a fact. Well I went to blizzcon and they talked a lot about development there, so I'd like to think I have a little insight. But all those people? They are now working on WOW or HOTS. I don't think anyone is actually working 100% full time on WOL anymore, but you have a few people, like David Kim, who is doing a *few* things for WOL, with the help of less than 10 people. Than they have to get support, Dustin Browder to look over it (and you know he's busy with HOTS full time), corporate support, et cetera. It's not just development and coding, there's a lot of art involved too. CalmKiwi I appreciate the reply. I get that most of the frustration is that blizz promised a lot, and delivered nothing. I guess that's kind of like... being promised SC2 as a game, and not getting it. So, you know, makes sense. But I think maybe the alternative would have been that WOL would have been released tommorow instead of a year ago, and Blizzard makes a bit less money. They're games are already late as shit. | ||
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zuperketla
Norway212 Posts
more people to play against = better. | ||
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Tuthur
France985 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/i7Zt6.jpg) | ||
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Damnight
Germany222 Posts
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Zarrow
7 Posts
Limited time, staff, resources? I'm sorry, but this is not a valid argument. They already had everything implemented in WarCraft 3, they just had to remake it for SC2. I just can't understand why would they recreate everything. I mean they recreated the game, I'm not happy with that (a lot of BW fans aren't) but it's OK, they wanted an easier game so casuals can play it (more casuals = more money, however after 2 years most of these casuals switched the game, the remaining are either from BW, or who decided to be competitive after 2 years). But why change the UI for Battle.net? I just don't get. It blows my mind. It doesn't support casuals, it doesn't make more money, it doesn't do anything good, it only costed more money, because they made a whole new UI. Not to mention, this UI really doesn't fit PC games, and especially Blizzard games. Also there is some seriously stupid stuff going on, like only one person can watch a replay. I mean even in BW they could do it which is more than 12 years old. First off what is this? You claim his argument is untrue, and yet you offer no facts yourself, so how can your own argument even stand? Secondly, have you ever taken a computer course or anything associated? You say it yourself "all they had to do was remake it" let me point your attention to the word remake which means, make again, which means they had to start from scratch, you can't just pull enormous amounts of code from a super old game and shove it into a new one. Thirdly, why are you complaining about the game? If you want to play BW play BW, SC2 was always supposed to be a new game not just some revamped BW. Fourthly, you say the new UI doesn't do anything good and again you don't give any support, you list two things that are highly opinion based and believe you can make a point out of that? There's no way you can know that the UI doesn't make Blizz more money, you have no facts. Lastly, I agree with you that there should be shared replay watching but that doesn't mean you can blame Blizz for not implementing it into a TOTALLY new game (engine wise). Let me remind you that SC2 was pushed back for years and at some point they had to release it. Just like Skyrim, of course there are ridiculous amounts of features that they could have put in but for me, I'd rather have the game now and wait for a small almost negligible part of the game later, even if that is more than two years down the road. | ||
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RajaF
Canada530 Posts
On February 13 2012 03:23 Zarrow wrote: First off what is this? You claim his argument is untrue, and yet you offer no facts yourself, so how can your own argument even stand? Secondly, have you ever taken a computer course or anything associated? You say it yourself "all they had to do was remake it" let me point your attention to the word remake which means, make again, which means they had to start from scratch, you can't just pull enormous amounts of code from a super old game and shove it into a new one. Thirdly, why are you complaining about the game? If you want to play BW play BW, SC2 was always supposed to be a new game not just some revamped BW. Fourthly, you say the new UI doesn't do anything good and again you don't give any support, you list two things that are highly opinion based and believe you can make a point out of that? There's no way you can know that the UI doesn't make Blizz more money, you have no facts. Lastly, I agree with you that there should be shared replay watching but that doesn't mean you can blame Blizz for not implementing it into a TOTALLY new game (engine wise). Let me remind you that SC2 was pushed back for years and at some point they had to release it. Just like Skyrim, of course there are ridiculous amounts of features that they could have put in but for me, I'd rather have the game now and wait for a small almost negligible part of the game later, even if that is more than two years down the road. You don't get it... the UI is serious business. Have you not noticed the more than 1000 people who posted their support in bashing blizzard for not implementing clan support. And I mean, everyone knows how easy it is to write 5K+ lines of code. Those blizzard devs must do nothing all day but smoke weed in the office  | ||
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ionONE
Germany605 Posts
The UI is a very basic think. 1998 blizzard was a "small" company and they created the bnet and look how they updated there UI from scbw to wc3. Now we can look up to a stone? There are points they could fix fast! I want to join a custom 1 v 1 ... im a bronze noob and want to practice agains noobs, so i join shattered temple because it is on page 1 so very popular ... i get a master terran player ... i want to leave the game but i cant ... i need to logout ... i try again ... again a master player -.- | ||
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YaShock
Hungary119 Posts
On February 13 2012 03:23 Zarrow wrote: First off what is this? You claim his argument is untrue, and yet you offer no facts yourself, so how can your own argument even stand? Secondly, have you ever taken a computer course or anything associated? You say it yourself "all they had to do was remake it" let me point your attention to the word remake which means, make again, which means they had to start from scratch, you can't just pull enormous amounts of code from a super old game and shove it into a new one. Thirdly, why are you complaining about the game? If you want to play BW play BW, SC2 was always supposed to be a new game not just some revamped BW. Fourthly, you say the new UI doesn't do anything good and again you don't give any support, you list two things that are highly opinion based and believe you can make a point out of that? There's no way you can know that the UI doesn't make Blizz more money, you have no facts. Lastly, I agree with you that there should be shared replay watching but that doesn't mean you can blame Blizz for not implementing it into a TOTALLY new game (engine wise). Let me remind you that SC2 was pushed back for years and at some point they had to release it. Just like Skyrim, of course there are ridiculous amounts of features that they could have put in but for me, I'd rather have the game now and wait for a small almost negligible part of the game later, even if that is more than two years down the road. Okay, first of all, I didn't mention too many examples because you can find all of them in OP. Secondly, you say they have to make everything from scratch, yes the coding, designing, but not the idea. If they had a good idea why would they ever just throw it away and say "screw it, we are going to make a new one!", if it was working perfectly. Thirdly, yes BW and SC2 is a different game, but the SC2 wouldn't exist without BW, it's like if I saw W2 was a better game than W3, you can't just say it's different game, it's different but not entirely, because they are about same world, strategy, design. You can't just make a totally new game and name it after another game. It's still StarCraft and it will be always StarCraft. If they would do some stupid stuff in campaign you wouldn't say it's different game, right? Okay, you're right, I don't know if they are making money of UI or not, but if they changed UI just to get more money, it even worse than I expected from them. So it doesn't make anything better. Lastly, you say you agree that they shouldn't have removed those features I mentioned which already existed in their previous games and than you say I shouldn't blame Blizzard for not implementing those in their own new game which is a new part of previous StarCraft. It just makes no sense. It's still their game, with same characters from campaign with plenty old units and with it's original name. Instead of adding Facebook features they sure could make better UI, that's for sure. Blizzard is a very large company, they have plenty of people, money and technology. Don't tell me they CAN'T make these things. Sure it would be harder to implement these features for SC2 than it was for BW but come on, Blizzard has grown to 100 hundreds bigger company, they sure could do that, they just simply don't want to for whatever reason. | ||
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YaShock
Hungary119 Posts
On February 13 2012 03:29 RajaF wrote: You don't get it... the UI is serious business. Have you not noticed the more than 1000 people who posted their support in bashing blizzard for not implementing clan support. And I mean, everyone knows how easy it is to write 5K+ lines of code. Those blizzard devs must do nothing all day but smoke weed in the office Okay that was just a stupid comment, you have said nothing useful here. Ye it's hard to write that much code, but sure you don't know programming because it's much more than 5K. But more to the point: it's their job. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
Once again thanks to PoweRForgeD for keeping it going! http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/4038616990 | ||
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