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+ Show Spoiler +On February 12 2012 11:10 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +Look, it's great if the UI and everything works for you. And if you prefer to use external tools over the convenience of having features available in the game itself, go ahead. I have no idea why someone would prefer that, but alright. B.net 1.0, or B.Net Perfect, or whatever, will never be as good as Skype or Ventrillo, something that a company has specifically worked on for years. It's called specialization in economics, but the idea is basically why would I care about b.net 2.0 chat when there already exists a chat that was made by people who's only job is to make a good chat system. Secondly, I could care less about chat. I really could care less. I have a gf to socialize, a forum (TL), friends, and conventions to talk SC with, I don't want to talk to randoms on the internet. That's the whole point of the internet, excuse me if I'm the only guy who plays video games that doesn't want to talk to strangers. Third, I think the current system is great. B.Net 1.0 was way worse than 2.0, I don't know how you can think any other way (oh right, you could re-create accounts any time to renew your ladder record because you didn't get 5 straight wins on the first 5 games, or make a new name, because your name is soooo important, no one knows that "Cale" is an EG player). Show nested quote +If nothing changes, there'll be no community left actively playing and enjoying the game by the time LOTV is balanced. Sure. That's not an over-exageration if I've heard one. If blizzard doesn't implement chat channels, everyone will just sit around with their thumbs up their asses, you know, instead of figuring out alternative solutions (like everyone already has done, by going to reddit, /v/, TL, ventrillo, skype, etc). I hate clans, I hate clan support in games, but disregarding that, everyone knows what clan people are in. You don't need an ugly tag to remind us of that every time. Maybe we should bash games for not including a "My Sponsors" page on your profile too? BW didn't have clan support either. You just make new accounts every day (that was helpful when it came to hacking, hmm). Custom games are secondary in SC, as is team play. I like 1v1. Sorry. I think most dedicated players would agree with that. People who have been playing BW for 10 years aren't people who play customs or team games, they are people who have stuck with 1v1 the whole time. 10 years from now, custom gamers and team gamers are going to jump ship to the next RTS game or COD game or WoW. Shared replays are cool, but again, secondary. And the ladder system right now is made to appeal to people who whine about where they are, or say "Yea I'm gold but I'm really platinum material". And quite frankly, unless you are high masters (where you can accurately compare your rank vs other people), your one of the people who the current system is helping full good about yourself. Show nested quote + think we've done a halfway decent job so far of staying polite and informative despite this being a topic we're very passionate about. You could return the favor by not calling our concerns "shit" and treating this discussion with sarcasm and contempt. I don't mean to be offensive, it's just my view on things, it really is. I don't get upset when people say "Pistachio Almond ice cream tastes like shit", it's just they have a different preference. Please understand it's my view on chat UI and clan support, not you. You guys make it out like Blizzard is intentionally leaving this stuff out. At blizzon they even said they had someone who's specific job, 24/7/365, was JUST to make the game results page prettier. And for every page of "Wheres the Chat/Clan/Etc support?" there are 10 balance whine pages, map flaw pages, game bug pages, and "Wheres HOTS?" pages. Now that doesn't make it right, but when they get 10 to 1 in regards to new maps, or balance, then yea, you bet they might have a different priority, and rightly so. I mean come on. What would you prefer. 3 range roaches? Or chat channels? 2 pylon wide ramps? Or clan support? They alkready added a shitton of features to observer view on viewing games/replays, but I guess that just means blizzard is still being lazy right? Those assholes, this all has some way of increasing their profit margins to neglect clan support! The idea that it's a very small team (what is it, only 3 people on balance this whole time right?) who have limited time and must select what they can do, the art, and coding behind everything, is nonsense! Because I'm pretty sure if this game still had rax before depot, 3 range roaches, reaper speed before fact, void ray speed, higher void ray charge damage, always-regenerating roaches, 1 supply roaches, i guarantee that this game and the tournament scene would've died a LONG time ago.
What exactly is better about SC2 UI compared to SC UI. The only thing that I see that is better is the match making system, which is much better. However, everything else is pretty bad.
Maybe it's because today, but I was a casual player in SC. That is not the point. The point is that I made online friends in SC. So far, I have made really 0 friends in SC2. Hell, I played LOL for 2 weeks, and already have made 3 friends. To me, that is the overall shortcoming of the present day UI.
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^ Yea, the ladder, that's all. Ladder/nonladder was also really confusing (at least to me) back then. I never knew what ladder was until a lot later. The way to pick games back then was horrible too. I mean I know people complain about custom games to day, but they are based on popularity and while popularity generally keeps crappy games up, it's better than the totally random system of before where just a bunch of bad games and bad versions of games kept popping up. But mainly ladder. BW ui definitely wasn't newb friendly at all.
I've made a ton of friends on SC2, mainly through TL. I've made way more friends through TL and conventions, than I ever did on any games chat channels.
The reason you dont really make friends on SC2 is the ladder system, 1v1, just doesn't really lend itself to the social nature of say, team games like COD or something. You end up hating the opponent in 1v1 lol. I hate a lot of people, according to some 1.5k games played, I hate about 1.49k people.
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Why is everyone so silly when talking about the ui? Really, the pros are casted playing the game not using the ui. In any event I still think the OP has a valid point. After looking over his post and noting all the things that aren't there(in Bnet 2.0) I believe he's right in some regard. However, I don't believe that revamping the ladder system would be productive. When I go to TL and see 94 unfeatured streams I'm willing to bet that a lot of those aspiring pros are encouraged by the fact that they are in the top eight of their respective master leagues. I know this first hand. I'm a plat player right now and I worked myself all the way up from bronze rank 100 and I can assure you that if I had been rank 982,564/1254987 instead, I would have given up trying to "be a better gamer" a long long, long time ago. So as ambiguous as it may be when comparing your skill against your friends', I believe the division's effect as a motivator far outweighs its ambiguity.
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On February 12 2012 11:33 Belial88 wrote:
^ Yea, the ladder, that's all. Ladder/nonladder was also really confusing (at least to me) back then. I never knew what ladder was until a lot later. The way to pick games back then was horrible too. I mean I know people complain about custom games to day, but they are based on popularity and while popularity generally keeps crappy games up, it's better than the totally random system of before where just a bunch of bad games and bad versions of games kept popping up. But mainly ladder. BW ui definitely wasn't newb friendly at all.
I've made a ton of friends on SC2, mainly through TL. I've made way more friends through TL and conventions, than I ever did on any games chat channels.
The reason you dont really make friends on SC2 is the ladder system, 1v1, just doesn't really lend itself to the social nature of say, team games like COD or something. You end up hating the opponent in 1v1 lol. I hate a lot of people, according to some 1.5k games played, I hate about 1.49k people.
True. I have made more friends on TL than SC2 itself. However, I remember join channels in SC and just talking to people, cause after a game, it dropped you into US West-1 or something like that. And then you might vent, or talk or something. And it seemed much more social.
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I agree with everything the OP has pointed out. I feel like b.net 2.0 is the deciding factor that is keeping me from playing more starcraft.
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Excellent and well articulated post. I think you hit it on the head with the lacking of a social/community aspect, it really is just ridiculous that I can log onto BW and instantly feel like I'm a part of room of people but not the same for SC2. Granted a lot of it is gibberish but hell even the chance to see "wHisPeR m3 4 inviTe 2 4v4 KitTen D3fen5e!!1!" and have the choice to respond to it is better than the isolation of logging on SC2 now. Simply put Blizzard, you need to desperately do something to change this with the release of HotS.
Some of the other points I'm more torn on. I'm all for a system that is going to make the 'lessed skilled' players feel better about themselves so that they potentially play more and hiding losses/making divisions/leagues seems like a decent way to accomplish that. However, I do think that we need more ranking beyond top 200 per region. Perhaps extending it to cover all players through masters or diamond?
Oh and replays... ya... Blizzard seriously wtf on that one lol. Get it together already.
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On February 12 2012 11:15 TKHawkins wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 03:57 BushidoSnipr wrote:
OP clearly has no concept of business.If Blizzard changes the shitty UI, will more people buy it?
NO.
If they make it worse, will less people buy it?
NO.
Blizzard does not care about the bad UI as long they're making bank. And i think it's safe to say that they could destroy the UI entirely and still sell it, due the games EXTREME popularity.
tl;dr: UI is terrible, but it doesnt matter cuz blizzard still gets money. If they make it better will people like me who have quit decide to change there mind and get HOTS? YES (maybe) Any buisness has to put out a quality product to maintain growth. You can't release shitty products and just expect to keep making money in the future. If D3 is terrible, will you buy Blizzard's next game "because it's Blizzard"? Or will you be more hesistant and think twice about it.
I'm not gonna buy D3 cuz I don't like Diablo. I'm going to buy HotS and LotV, because I like the gameplay portion, and a shitty UI hasnt kept me from WoL. I admit, it's a terrible UI, but it doesn't hinder my experience in-game, and thats the bottom line for all pro players and all people who enjoy playing the game competitively.
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I'm replying to the following quote, had to put it in spoiler 'cause of its size
+ Show Spoiler +On February 12 2012 11:10 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +Look, it's great if the UI and everything works for you. And if you prefer to use external tools over the convenience of having features available in the game itself, go ahead. I have no idea why someone would prefer that, but alright. B.net 1.0, or B.Net Perfect, or whatever, will never be as good as Skype or Ventrillo, something that a company has specifically worked on for years. It's called specialization in economics, but the idea is basically why would I care about b.net 2.0 chat when there already exists a chat that was made by people who's only job is to make a good chat system. Secondly, I could care less about chat. I really could care less. I have a gf to socialize, a forum (TL), friends, and conventions to talk SC with, I don't want to talk to randoms on the internet. That's the whole point of the internet, excuse me if I'm the only guy who plays video games that doesn't want to talk to strangers. Third, I think the current system is great. B.Net 1.0 was way worse than 2.0, I don't know how you can think any other way (oh right, you could re-create accounts any time to renew your ladder record because you didn't get 5 straight wins on the first 5 games, or make a new name, because your name is soooo important, no one knows that "Cale" is an EG player). Show nested quote +If nothing changes, there'll be no community left actively playing and enjoying the game by the time LOTV is balanced. Sure. That's not an over-exageration if I've heard one. If blizzard doesn't implement chat channels, everyone will just sit around with their thumbs up their asses, you know, instead of figuring out alternative solutions (like everyone already has done, by going to reddit, /v/, TL, ventrillo, skype, etc). I hate clans, I hate clan support in games, but disregarding that, everyone knows what clan people are in. You don't need an ugly tag to remind us of that every time. Maybe we should bash games for not including a "My Sponsors" page on your profile too? BW didn't have clan support either. You just make new accounts every day (that was helpful when it came to hacking, hmm). Custom games are secondary in SC, as is team play. I like 1v1. Sorry. I think most dedicated players would agree with that. People who have been playing BW for 10 years aren't people who play customs or team games, they are people who have stuck with 1v1 the whole time. 10 years from now, custom gamers and team gamers are going to jump ship to the next RTS game or COD game or WoW. Shared replays are cool, but again, secondary. And the ladder system right now is made to appeal to people who whine about where they are, or say "Yea I'm gold but I'm really platinum material". And quite frankly, unless you are high masters (where you can accurately compare your rank vs other people), your one of the people who the current system is helping full good about yourself. Show nested quote + think we've done a halfway decent job so far of staying polite and informative despite this being a topic we're very passionate about. You could return the favor by not calling our concerns "shit" and treating this discussion with sarcasm and contempt. I don't mean to be offensive, it's just my view on things, it really is. I don't get upset when people say "Pistachio Almond ice cream tastes like shit", it's just they have a different preference. Please understand it's my view on chat UI and clan support, not you. You guys make it out like Blizzard is intentionally leaving this stuff out. At blizzon they even said they had someone who's specific job, 24/7/365, was JUST to make the game results page prettier. And for every page of "Wheres the Chat/Clan/Etc support?" there are 10 balance whine pages, map flaw pages, game bug pages, and "Wheres HOTS?" pages. Now that doesn't make it right, but when they get 10 to 1 in regards to new maps, or balance, then yea, you bet they might have a different priority, and rightly so. I mean come on. What would you prefer. 3 range roaches? Or chat channels? 2 pylon wide ramps? Or clan support? They alkready added a shitton of features to observer view on viewing games/replays, but I guess that just means blizzard is still being lazy right? Those assholes, this all has some way of increasing their profit margins to neglect clan support! The idea that it's a very small team (what is it, only 3 people on balance this whole time right?) who have limited time and must select what they can do, the art, and coding behind everything, is nonsense! Because I'm pretty sure if this game still had rax before depot, 3 range roaches, reaper speed before fact, void ray speed, higher void ray charge damage, always-regenerating roaches, 1 supply roaches, i guarantee that this game and the tournament scene would've died a LONG time ago.
That's all fine and dandy from your point of view.
And that's ok, I can understand that you socialize in a different way, with people irl.
The thing is however, that works for you, but, get this crazy idea now, it doesn't work for other people.
Crazy isn't it ? I know, I mean other people like to do stuff in a different way. For example, you socialize with friends in a bar or something like that I supose, or you go to the movies with your friends and gf, and that's cool and all.
But other people in this thread, including me, are those type of people who want to crack open a beer or other beverage of choice, and just sit down, put on a headset, and have a god damn blast, talking to other people and having fun times.
To name a few situations, imagine for a second, that the SC2 UI is top noch awesome. It has all the features like clan tags, auto tournaments with paypal intergration, public chat and other countless possible featuers.
I could rally my friends, and new people I meet, and quicly organize a tournament without hassle, when other friends are not playing they can cast the match on skype, tell funny jokes like "Oh here comes the baneling bust, shit, John is gonna flip out when he sees this", and moments before it hits him, he starts cursing in the chat, while other are laughing their asses off
After that game John wants a rematch, he hold a grudge now, so its a GRUDGE MATCH, and we all know those are loads of laughts and fun.
John : "Oh its on now brah, I'm gonna rape you next game"
Phill : "Cool story bro"
Now that was just an example of many possible funny stories that could occur on Battle.net 2.0
So I hope that you probably have the idea of what I'm talking about, and I hope you now probably get why a lot of people are frustrated, they want to expirience that fun and lighthearted chaos of the "online battlefield".
I know I am, I'm so frustrated that all that poetential is going to waste.
People fear the cold solo matchmaking that is presented right now, but that doesn't mean that they want to just have fun with custom games.
There are a lot of people who want to master the art of 1v1, including myself, but the way it is presented is off.
To clarify what I mean, take the followling example, imagine you are training in the army.
Yeah, life's tuff, you need to do pushups everyday until you puke, and deal with all the shit the general spits at you.
But tell me, in what kind of environment would you rather train, in the cold harsh outpost in Siberia, all alone, or would you rather train in a bootcamp where you hang out with other comrades, who sometimes dick around just to break that harsh mundane routine of training ?
Why do you think many progamers live together in organized houses ? It gives a whole new level to the whole starcraft expirience.
And while we don't have the luxury of having one of these organized houses, me and the other guys here are fighting to make one online, Battle.net 2.0
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The thing is however, that works for you, but, get this crazy idea now, it doesn't work for other people.
Crazy isn't it ? I know, I mean other people like to do stuff in a different way. For example, you socialize with friends in a bar or something like that I supose, or you go to the movies with your friends and gf, and that's cool and all.
Thread asked me why don't I care. I posted why I don't care. I'm not saying anyone else is wrong for their opinion here, I'm just stating where I'm coming from. While you may like UI stuff and pretty graphics, I do think it's a little unreasonable to straight up bash blizzard, you do realize it's a very small team, and things like revamping just the score screen takes months to get the artwork, coding, final approval, and implementation of right? You are aware HOTS is where most of the team is concentrating on, and the few people still working on WOL, are working more on balance patches, map design, the ladder system, and tournament support right?
I mean you are literally just bashing like 5-10 people because they are focusing on balance patches and new maps than making the UI prettier and giving chat channels and all sorts of stuff that could be more easily implemented in HOTS/LOTV under new, fresh systems.
But, if that's how you feel, you know, go for it. There's nothing wrong with it. I just sort of feel it's like... not to flame, but sort of like a kid bashing their parents for making them do chores when they don't pay rent or anything and never have. There's a limited amount of time for the very small David Kim and his intern team to do, and I for one think they have done an absolutely, 100%, perfectly amazing job at supporting this game since launch. It's very easy for us to sit in the comfort of our homes, just playing the game, to whine, but it's a helluva of a lot harder to get the coding, the artwork, et cetera, all done, and get corporate approval on it all (you have to remember, while we may want something like sc2gears lite at the game results screen, it 'confuses', yep, confuses, the majority of 12 year old kids who play this game and thus actually hurts more than helps sales, which in turn means less money to put into the future expansions and into support of this game).
I mean blizzard has done a damn good job of supporting this game, and anything less than singing their praises, I think, is ridiculous. I mean seriously, we paid some $60 for this game and it's lasted over a year for me, and I'm sure for many of you. And you are going to actually get mad at the developers? Seriously, when has $60 to something ever lasted so long and provided so much? Oh yea, that game 10 years ago, BW. Like really... maybe not everyone is like this, but I feel people need just a liiiiitle bit more perspective on the issue.
You want chat channels. It's important to you? Great. Maybe you even think "Blizz sucks dik". And that's fine, nothing wrong with that. I'm just explaining where I'm coming from.
Maybe it'd be a bit easier to digest if posts were more like "I love what blizz has done so far, this is the best game out right now by far, and I plan to play it for at least the next 5 years, and no matter what happens I'm a 100% locked in sale for HOTS and LOTV as well as a few blizzcon tickets and blizzard merchandise as well as products from SC2 related sponsors, but I really wish they'd devote some time to the UI. I'd be pilling to pay $5 for a UI improvement, and I would rather have $5 go towards UI than balance. I would be okay with 3 range roaches and pre-nerf strike cannons if we had some damn chat channels!".
Again, I really don't mean to upset anyone, and I'm not telling you that your opinion is wrong. I'm just saying what my viewpoint is, and where I'm coming from. I mean come on, is this not the most awesome game of the last 9 years? easily top 3.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love chat channels, UI improvements, et cetera (actually i really dont care lol, but lets pretend) - but if it was a choice of the best UI eva, or the game as it was back in October 2010, or worse, beta (ughghgh, I shiver to think of 1 supply roaches... or love it! go zerg!), I would go with "fuck the UI" every time. Every time.
But tell me, in what kind of environment would you rather train, in the cold harsh outpost in Siberia, all alone, or would you rather train in a bootcamp where you hang out with other comrades, who sometimes dick around just to break that harsh mundane routine of training ?
I really don't think is an appropriate example at all, it's more like "Would you rather have a well-designed game, or better graphics", or "Would you rather the game had chat channels that will never come anywhere near as useful as Vent or Skype, or a more fun game", or to compare it to your example:
"You are about to go to war.You need to be trained well. Would you rather go to a place that's miserable but makes you a war machine, or a fun place where you come out not knowing how to reload a gun?".
But to answer your question... bleh, I think your question is ridiculous. Duh you want to hang out with your friends. But what's the purpose behind what you say? If I wanted to become a better soldier, hell yea I'd go to siberia (hmm dont some aspiring pro gamers go to korea instead of stay in EU/NA where they could earn more money beating foreign tournaments?... yea, they must be nuts!). Actually, if you join the army, the whole point is because it's your career, you know, you need the money, support your family. So fuck yea, I'd go to siberia... I take my work very seriously. Whenever I work, I work hard, because I give a damn about my future.
And while we don't have the luxury of having one of these organized houses, me and the other guys here are fighting to make one online, Battle.net 2.0
You could just use skype. Clans use skype just fine. No one who is anything less than a large company will create anything better than skype. So just use skype.
Or whatever. It's your opinion, and that's fine. We play differently, obviously. I just feel like I get what I need already here at TL and skype and vent and with my IRL friends and conventions and blizzcon, and would prefer a more balanced game than UI features.
It seems to me that a lot of the complaints here seem to think that blizz is just ignoring the UI. No, there's a very small development team. They have a choice. Balance the game, or the UI? Well, if the game is unbalanced, then no tournaments will occur, and then korea will never accept it, and blizzard will have less recognition in Korea, meaning less viewers worldwide, meaning less interest in the game, meaning lower sales and a smaller team to work on HOTS/LOTV, and thus, worse expansions. A better UI, sure, some people might like StarVille, but they risk the competitive scene just dissapearing to DOTA2 and all those weird dota games.
There's a choice for blizzard. UI, or better balance and maps. To me, the choice is clear. Maybe blizzard should split the work, in your opinion, but I for one, am eagerly anticipating 1.4.3, and would much rather have snipe nerfs than better UI in the next month.
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Maybe I'm painting this picture of whiny kids, and maybe it's unfair. I know a lot of you aren't like that, it's just a little easy to get carried away and see the extremist side of the other point of view. And for arguments sake, it's easier to explain myself in contrast to.
Please don't take anything I say personally, if anything, it's more an attack on the POV, but definitely not against any of you.
I'm just stating my opinion. I'm not saying you guys are wrong in what you think, not at all. There's no right or wrong here, it's all preference. I just feel some people fail to understand its' a choice:
Balance Patches (1 supply roaches, larger, 100% energy sapping EMPs) or UI.
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On February 12 2012 13:58 Belial88 wrote:
Maybe I'm painting this picture of whiny kids, and maybe it's unfair. I know a lot of you aren't like that, it's just a little easy to get carried away and see the extremist side of the other point of view. And for arguments sake, it's easier to explain myself in contrast to.
Please don't take anything I say personally, if anything, it's more an attack on the POV, but definitely not against any of you.
I'm just stating my opinion. I'm not saying you guys are wrong in what you think, not at all. There's no right or wrong here, it's all preference. I just feel some people fail to understand its' a choice:
Balance Patches (1 supply roaches, larger, 100% energy sapping EMPs) or UI.
I read your large post above, and I got the vibe that you want to express your opinion, and that is great. We all should express our opinions because that is how discussion is formed.
However, I don't see why it has to be one or the other. There is a team that is building and designing HotS. We have asked for chat channels, and some of the other stuff since beta, so approximately 2 years ago. They have said yes, they are coming. Two years later, and it is still not there.
The fact is that SC2 is an awesome game. However, the UI to keep the players playing the game longer and having a better time at it, is not there. And we think it should be. No, I don't think we are entitled it. But I think it is the fact that most of the things that we want were in Bnet 1.0, and is severely lacking in Bnet 2.0. And that is the big problem. We had this expectation that Bnet 2.0 would be better, and it is not in many regards.
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However, I don't see why it has to be one or the other.
Limited time, limited staff, most of off, limited resources... money.
It's been more like a year, not 2, and the number of dedicated people working on keeping WOL up to date is less than 10. David Kim leads the balance team, which is less than 10 people, and most of them are focused on HOTS. Also, David Kim and Dustin Browder have a LOT of other stuff to do, not just HOTS. They don't work for Starcraft, they work for Blizzard.
Give Blizzard more money, buy stock in Activision/Blizzard, so they can get more funding. Blizzard is notorious for taking forever, and every time they take forever, they release the best games ever. So chill, the UI improvements will come eventually. Soon®.
At Blizzcon they said one guy is working just to improve the game results page, and after 3-4 months of work he did some improvements that got rejected I believe, because it gave too much information to the user and 'overwhelmed them', and sad to say, but the average SC2 customers is some kid who cries about being in bronze or that the game is too hard.
As for things in bnet1.0 that aren't in bnet 2.0, what exactly are you talking about? Everything in the OP was not in BW.
As for b.net 2.0 being overhyped, yea, probably. I think they had a lot of problems, like, you know, the whole Real User fiasco where it put your real name up with your account for everyone to see and your address or whatever.
It's not a simple "just do this". They have to get corporate approval, art has to be behind, coding has to be done, debugging has to be done, testing has to be done. It takes an hour to make a better UI, but it takes a year for a team of 3 (which is all that's really working on WOL right now) just to freshen up the theme.
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because to us that only ladder, it really doesnt matter? even for custom games is not that bad (except its worse than wc3 LOL)
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Getting a clan system and redoing the way custom games are listed are pretty much my only wants as of now.
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On February 12 2012 13:55 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +The thing is however, that works for you, but, get this crazy idea now, it doesn't work for other people.
Crazy isn't it ? I know, I mean other people like to do stuff in a different way. For example, you socialize with friends in a bar or something like that I supose, or you go to the movies with your friends and gf, and that's cool and all. Thread asked me why don't I care. I posted why I don't care. I'm not saying anyone else is wrong for their opinion here, I'm just stating where I'm coming from. While you may like UI stuff and pretty graphics, I do think it's a little unreasonable to straight up bash blizzard, you do realize it's a very small team, and things like revamping just the score screen takes months to get the artwork, coding, final approval, and implementation of right? You are aware HOTS is where most of the team is concentrating on, and the few people still working on WOL, are working more on balance patches, map design, the ladder system, and tournament support right? I mean you are literally just bashing like 5-10 people because they are focusing on balance patches and new maps than making the UI prettier and giving chat channels and all sorts of stuff that could be more easily implemented in HOTS/LOTV under new, fresh systems. But, if that's how you feel, you know, go for it. There's nothing wrong with it. I just sort of feel it's like... not to flame, but sort of like a kid bashing their parents for making them do chores when they don't pay rent or anything and never have. There's a limited amount of time for the very small David Kim and his intern team to do, and I for one think they have done an absolutely, 100%, perfectly amazing job at supporting this game since launch. It's very easy for us to sit in the comfort of our homes, just playing the game, to whine, but it's a helluva of a lot harder to get the coding, the artwork, et cetera, all done, and get corporate approval on it all (you have to remember, while we may want something like sc2gears lite at the game results screen, it 'confuses', yep, confuses, the majority of 12 year old kids who play this game and thus actually hurts more than helps sales, which in turn means less money to put into the future expansions and into support of this game). I mean blizzard has done a damn good job of supporting this game, and anything less than singing their praises, I think, is ridiculous. I mean seriously, we paid some $60 for this game and it's lasted over a year for me, and I'm sure for many of you. And you are going to actually get mad at the developers? Seriously, when has $60 to something ever lasted so long and provided so much? Oh yea, that game 10 years ago, BW. Like really... maybe not everyone is like this, but I feel people need just a liiiiitle bit more perspective on the issue. You want chat channels. It's important to you? Great. Maybe you even think "Blizz sucks dik". And that's fine, nothing wrong with that. I'm just explaining where I'm coming from. Maybe it'd be a bit easier to digest if posts were more like "I love what blizz has done so far, this is the best game out right now by far, and I plan to play it for at least the next 5 years, and no matter what happens I'm a 100% locked in sale for HOTS and LOTV as well as a few blizzcon tickets and blizzard merchandise as well as products from SC2 related sponsors, but I really wish they'd devote some time to the UI. I'd be pilling to pay $5 for a UI improvement, and I would rather have $5 go towards UI than balance. I would be okay with 3 range roaches and pre-nerf strike cannons if we had some damn chat channels!". Again, I really don't mean to upset anyone, and I'm not telling you that your opinion is wrong. I'm just saying what my viewpoint is, and where I'm coming from. I mean come on, is this not the most awesome game of the last 9 years? easily top 3. Don't get me wrong, I'd love chat channels, UI improvements, et cetera (actually i really dont care lol, but lets pretend) - but if it was a choice of the best UI eva, or the game as it was back in October 2010, or worse, beta (ughghgh, I shiver to think of 1 supply roaches... or love it! go zerg!), I would go with "fuck the UI" every time. Every time. Show nested quote +But tell me, in what kind of environment would you rather train, in the cold harsh outpost in Siberia, all alone, or would you rather train in a bootcamp where you hang out with other comrades, who sometimes dick around just to break that harsh mundane routine of training ? I really don't think is an appropriate example at all, it's more like "Would you rather have a well-designed game, or better graphics", or "Would you rather the game had chat channels that will never come anywhere near as useful as Vent or Skype, or a more fun game", or to compare it to your example: "You are about to go to war.You need to be trained well. Would you rather go to a place that's miserable but makes you a war machine, or a fun place where you come out not knowing how to reload a gun?". But to answer your question... bleh, I think your question is ridiculous. Duh you want to hang out with your friends. But what's the purpose behind what you say? If I wanted to become a better soldier, hell yea I'd go to siberia (hmm dont some aspiring pro gamers go to korea instead of stay in EU/NA where they could earn more money beating foreign tournaments?... yea, they must be nuts!). Actually, if you join the army, the whole point is because it's your career, you know, you need the money, support your family. So fuck yea, I'd go to siberia... I take my work very seriously. Whenever I work, I work hard, because I give a damn about my future. Show nested quote +And while we don't have the luxury of having one of these organized houses, me and the other guys here are fighting to make one online, Battle.net 2.0 You could just use skype. Clans use skype just fine. No one who is anything less than a large company will create anything better than skype. So just use skype. Or whatever. It's your opinion, and that's fine. We play differently, obviously. I just feel like I get what I need already here at TL and skype and vent and with my IRL friends and conventions and blizzcon, and would prefer a more balanced game than UI features. It seems to me that a lot of the complaints here seem to think that blizz is just ignoring the UI. No, there's a very small development team. They have a choice. Balance the game, or the UI? Well, if the game is unbalanced, then no tournaments will occur, and then korea will never accept it, and blizzard will have less recognition in Korea, meaning less viewers worldwide, meaning less interest in the game, meaning lower sales and a smaller team to work on HOTS/LOTV, and thus, worse expansions. A better UI, sure, some people might like StarVille, but they risk the competitive scene just dissapearing to DOTA2 and all those weird dota games. There's a choice for blizzard. UI, or better balance and maps. To me, the choice is clear. Maybe blizzard should split the work, in your opinion, but I for one, am eagerly anticipating 1.4.3, and would much rather have snipe nerfs than better UI in the next month.
Are you seriously saying the development team for SC2 is "very small" and that they choose between balancing the game and interface design? and how does having a better UI mean people will shift to dota type games which is a different genre altogether
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So they make public channels for d3 after people complained, great
Now i hope we can reach simalar things, clan support, real public channels, online watch of replays , friend list with all its commands from scbw, and a better custom map system
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On February 12 2012 14:42 Belial88 wrote:Limited time, limited staff, most of off, limited resources... money. It's been more like a year, not 2, and the number of dedicated people working on keeping WOL up to date is less than 10. David Kim leads the balance team, which is less than 10 people, and most of them are focused on HOTS. Also, David Kim and Dustin Browder have a LOT of other stuff to do, not just HOTS. They don't work for Starcraft, they work for Blizzard. Give Blizzard more money, buy stock in Activision/Blizzard, so they can get more funding. Blizzard is notorious for taking forever, and every time they take forever, they release the best games ever. So chill, the UI improvements will come eventually. Soon®. At Blizzcon they said one guy is working just to improve the game results page, and after 3-4 months of work he did some improvements that got rejected I believe, because it gave too much information to the user and 'overwhelmed them', and sad to say, but the average SC2 customers is some kid who cries about being in bronze or that the game is too hard. As for things in bnet1.0 that aren't in bnet 2.0, what exactly are you talking about? Everything in the OP was not in BW. As for b.net 2.0 being overhyped, yea, probably. I think they had a lot of problems, like, you know, the whole Real User fiasco where it put your real name up with your account for everyone to see and your address or whatever. It's not a simple "just do this". They have to get corporate approval, art has to be behind, coding has to be done, debugging has to be done, testing has to be done. It takes an hour to make a better UI, but it takes a year for a team of 3 (which is all that's really working on WOL right now) just to freshen up the theme.
Limited time, staff, resources? I'm sorry, but this is not a valid argument. They already had everything implemented in WarCraft 3, they just had to remake it for SC2. I just can't understand why would they recreate everything. I mean they recreated the game, I'm not happy with that (a lot of BW fans aren't) but it's OK, they wanted an easier game so casuals can play it (more casuals = more money, however after 2 years most of these casuals switched the game, the remaining are either from BW, or who decided to be competitive after 2 years). But why change the UI for Battle.net? I just don't get. It blows my mind. It doesn't support casuals, it doesn't make more money, it doesn't do anything good, it only costed more money, because they made a whole new UI. Not to mention, this UI really doesn't fit PC games, and especially Blizzard games. Also there is some seriously stupid stuff going on, like only one person can watch a replay. I mean even in BW they could do it which is more than 12 years old. Just imagine how much online tournament organizers, who stream later the replays have to struggle, that just makes no sense. And that's true for a lot of similar things, I'm sure everyone knows what I am talking about, if not well, they shouldn't comment here.
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HOLY SHIT I'D LOVE THIS:
I took the img from the op.. dont know who made it, but prpz to him/her!!!
This would make sc2 SOOOOOOOO much more enjoyable..
I want this! NOW!!
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On February 12 2012 19:36 qwertzi wrote:HOLY SHIT I'D LOVE THIS: I took the img from the op.. dont know who made it, but prpz to him/her!!! This would make sc2 SOOOOOOOO much more enjoyable.. I want this! NOW!!
Ye I know what are you talking about, I just LOVE this idea. I mean joining as observer to your friend games and stuff like that. Also he made funny chat there :D But another thing about custom games that they didn't mention: They should have made password protection for custom games, it's very, I mean VERY frustrating when you cast games and all your real ID friends join you non stop and you have to kick them all 5 fives in a row, and then the real ID friends of other casters start joining. You can't even start a game because they join non stop, you can't have a password and neither close slots in game. (like in BW, W3, again 7-12 years old games, Blizzard WHYYYYYYY)
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I like the laddersystem as it is at the moment, I feel great ranking nr. 1 in silver and not being rank 182.731/200.000 or whatever 
What is missing are open chat channels to talk to random people. And clan features. And everything else that is mentioned in the first post of this thread. 
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/b7pAn.jpg)
