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UI still sub-par 2 years later. Why don't we care? - Page 43

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Darkzler
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden58 Posts
February 08 2012 20:23 GMT
#841
One of the best posts in a long time! I can't more than agree, the UI is a huge step backwards and needs to be updated when HotS is released, else this game may lose even more players than it already has.
Play hard, go pro!
shablaGOO
Profile Joined January 2011
United States13 Posts
February 08 2012 20:40 GMT
#842
I'm glad I randomly checked TL today, as I haven't been on TL or SC2 in months. My interest in SC2 had almost completely evaporated, and this post details EXACTLY why.

Reading that Q&A related to Diablo III also made me reconsider even buying it when it comes out (whenever that is). Why does Blizzard not want us to be able communicate with each one another?
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
February 08 2012 20:41 GMT
#843
Talking about UI improvements - just realized Protoss production tab doesn't indicate chrono boosts - it should, I think. Of course, any protoss player could tell by the speed of the progress bar if it's boosted, or not, but the casual non-toss viewer would enjoy being shown the chrono on the tab.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
Shockk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany2269 Posts
February 08 2012 20:44 GMT
#844
On February 09 2012 05:13 Gwypaas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 04:55 wunsun wrote:
On February 09 2012 04:48 aderum wrote:
On February 09 2012 04:32 Gwypaas wrote:
On February 09 2012 04:26 wunsun wrote:
You know what's frustrating... the lack of any comment regarding to this topic on the Blizzard forums. They have people reading their forums, and Shock did a beautiful write up which is linked from the Blizz forums. I feel that we should at least had some sort of response by now.

The lack of response just shows that they don't have a response that will even remotely fulfill what we demand and just hopes that this will blow over and then that we either way will go and buy D3 and HotS so they make their money.

This is just disgusting.


Best(IE hurts the most) way to protest is to simply not buy it... but we all now thats easier said than done =(


The game itself is great; just that the system doesn't make us want to play it as much as it could be.

And that's the heart of the problem, we all love the actually playing of the game but it grows boring and tedious when the system you use to play it is antisocial and lowers the replayability. When I bought SC2 I expected something close to the satisfaction WC3 gave me, which was 5 years of having that as my main game while hopping around a bit on other games without any IRL friends playing it really. SC2 on the contrary lasted 3 months of playing and 2 months of randomly playing but with the main difference that we were a bunch of IRL friends and that I had my WC3 friends playing with me. Everyone ended up quitting within half a year.

The most hilarious part of this is that I still watch the tournaments and keep up with the game because the game itself is awesome, but I can't for all the willpower in the world start up SC2 and actually play it.


Great post. It sums the subjective "Battle.Net feeling" part nicely. And it inspired me to add a new category to the OP:

[image loading]


I'll try to spotlight posts by prominent TL users, select anecdotes that explain the various sides of the issue at hand, and other notable contributions to this discussion, beginning with Gwypaas' post and a couple of other comments. As with all parts of this thread, it's a work in progress, so please bare with me if I should miss a great post here or there.

Feel free to PM me should you feel that a certain post deserves special attention (or shouldn't be highlighted), but please note that I can't or won't consider all suggestions, and updates may take some time.
Gwypaas
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden41 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 21:00:49
February 08 2012 20:45 GMT
#845
On February 09 2012 05:05 iloveav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 04:32 Gwypaas wrote:
On February 09 2012 04:26 wunsun wrote:
You know what's frustrating... the lack of any comment regarding to this topic on the Blizzard forums. They have people reading their forums, and Shock did a beautiful write up which is linked from the Blizz forums. I feel that we should at least had some sort of response by now.

The lack of response just shows that they don't have a response that will even remotely fulfill what we demand and just hopes that this will blow over and then either way go and buy D3 and HotS so they make their money.

This is just disgusting.

Spoilered because so long.
+ Show Spoiler +

Of course they dont. If they told us the reasons, we probably would hate them even more than we already do. ( hate as beeing pissed off i guess ).

To fully understand this situation, you need to put yourself in blizzards position.

You must understand that Blizzard cannot allow a game to survive 2 long. If it does, they dont get new income from another game they will make.

Here comes the first mistake: If they make a game like starcraft 1 or diablo 1, they are almost certainly guaranteed to sell their next titles. The reason is a huge respect for the company as a gaming industry, making it more likely to buy their games rather than others.

However, if we talk about a community like we had in diablo 1 or sc:bw, its a small load to the servers, so its a small cost.

In the starcraft 2 the cost of servers is consistently higher, and since there is no LAN (anti piracy maybe, but more likely for monitoring their gaming community), players have no way to play it out of battle.net.

Now lets assume that sc2 life is about to end beeing a "profit" in monetary form for blizzard.
What then the company wants is to shut down those servers or migrate them to something "new/pay for play".

However (and here is the key concept), if you have a huge community playing that game, you cant shut down the servers, because even if in terms of agreement you specify this eventuality, 5.000.000 angry gamers will have a huge impact in your next game sales. Those 5 million might translate into 50k very bad opinions on internet, and that might "persuade" a potential customer not to buy their next title.

Now, lets assume, that you create a bad UI, unfriendly, and loag loading each key you press, you get those 5 million down to barely 100.000 gamers left active.
Now you close the servers for that game (or leave a small, lagging one), and you get 1k bad opinions online.
Then you simply overflow the "bad" opinions with reviews, your own webpages, or simply information about your next title.

You will have a much higher chance to quiet down 1k ppl than 50k.

A simple example:

"Alcampo" is a shopping center that in spain has had NO internet interest at all for a huge ammount of time. Because of where i worked before, i saw first hand what happens you "you, the company" have no movement on the internet: People do it for you, the way they want.

If you search "Alcampo" in youtube, nowdays (after the campaign Alcampo did), the first things you see are something posted to have a "ok" image on internet. Before, the top video was a dude that was using a plastic bag of "alcampo" to lose weight. You can imagine that even with absolutelty nothing to do with the store, it actually impacted the store very negativly.
(Btw now its on the 7th spot in the youtube search).

Same shit here, just more complex.

About Pros, or casters:

Its obvious they cant bite the hand that is feeding them. "WE" (the regular players) have the luxury to comment on this freely, but they might lose a lot because of this. (remmber when Naniwa probe rushed some zerg and lost his code S seed?)

Now, the question we should ask ourselves: Is there any way we can influence Blizzard to change their approach? If there is, How to? And do we really want to do it?.

1: There is always a way, just it might require us to have strong principles ( like not buying the game until they show they solved this issue, and we would have to do it by the millions), or commitment.

2: Hard spamming a a twitter account for 1 month by about 70% of the guys that are following anyone from blizzard related to the matter could do the trick. Or creating a good amount of negative blog/threads about this.

3: Thats what everyone has to decide, but i am quite sure that without a form of "agreement" from everyone, most people will think the same way people who dont vote for politics think: If only i do it, it wont have any effect, and i only will only look like a loner who just rage talks.

At least this is my opinion :D.


I would say the problem with your reasoning is that we paid for Battle.net when we bought the game, and they included it in the game to make us buy it. As someone said in the D3 thread, this is not a dictatorship, this is a relationship. The thing that created the massive company Blizzard is today was players leaving Battle.net with a good taste in the mouth, as in: "I have had an awesome time playing Wc3 but since I started playing XXX I rather play that, although I may check in on Wc3 from time to time just to see how things are going and play a game or two." Almost all those people ended up buying SC2 and following Blizzard's every move.

On the other hand many players leaving SC2 just have a feeling that something was missing and that there is no point even logging on to SC2 again since it will not offer anything new or fun. Maybe they will buy the expansions if they are groundbreaking but, they won't line up on fansites following the hype and tell all their friends about this new awesome game.

Ramroth
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany9 Posts
February 08 2012 21:02 GMT
#846
Personally, the game's UI discourages me from playing on a daily basis. When the new battle.net was developed, we were promised that we'd "never want to be offline again". But every single time I log on, I feel utterly alone, maybe play a game or two, and then leave again. Both in SC/BW and WC3, I'd idle around forever, hang out in channels or waste time in custom games.


That pretty much sums it up for me. Haven`t even finished my ranking matches for the last two seasons ...
godly-cheese
Profile Joined November 2011
United States67 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 21:49:17
February 08 2012 21:48 GMT
#847
Ok so I extremely interested to see what Blizzard had to say about this thread. I felt like e-mailing it directly doesn't work so I decided to submit a ticket about it which I thought was the best way to get it across. I linked an image for you all to see.

[image loading]

Oh and if you're wondering, I accidentally submitted it to the World of Warcraft department, but either way. I thought it was interesting.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
February 08 2012 21:53 GMT
#848
I'm even more sad now that two days ago.
Got a dota2 betakey, saw the UI in that game, and all the features.
Damn Battlenet 2.0 is bad...
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
korona
Profile Joined October 2009
1098 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 22:11:23
February 08 2012 22:11 GMT
#849
On February 09 2012 06:48 godly-cheese wrote:
Ok so I extremely interested to see what Blizzard had to say about this thread. I felt like e-mailing it directly doesn't work so I decided to submit a ticket about it which I thought was the best way to get it across. I linked an image for you all to see.

<clip>removed picture from the quote</clip>

Oh and if you're wondering, I accidentally submitted it to the World of Warcraft department, but either way. I thought it was interesting.

Are you sure you submitted it to WoW department? Recently I reported one issue via support ticket in US server and selected SC2 as a game. I received a generic response that my issue is being handled and the message ended with: "I hope you have a wonderful day and enjoy your stay in the World of Warcraft."

I reopened the ticked and asked if the issue was received and handled by the right people. In the response they told that WoW Game Master Department handles also all SC2 support tickets regarding US server (includes a funny typo):
"I wanted to come by and let you know that your issue was in fact handled by the correct derpartment. Game Masters are the support side for all of our game, and as such, they handle issues that are submitted from us/battle.net as well."
godly-cheese
Profile Joined November 2011
United States67 Posts
February 08 2012 22:17 GMT
#850
On February 09 2012 07:11 korona wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 06:48 godly-cheese wrote:
Ok so I extremely interested to see what Blizzard had to say about this thread. I felt like e-mailing it directly doesn't work so I decided to submit a ticket about it which I thought was the best way to get it across. I linked an image for you all to see.

<clip>removed picture from the quote</clip>

Oh and if you're wondering, I accidentally submitted it to the World of Warcraft department, but either way. I thought it was interesting.

Are you sure you submitted it to WoW department? Recently I reported one issue via support ticket in US server and selected SC2 as a game. I received a generic response that my issue is being handled and the message ended with: "I hope you have a wonderful day and enjoy your stay in the World of Warcraft."

I reopened the ticked and asked if the issue was received and handled by the right people. In the response they told that WoW Game Master Department handles also all SC2 support tickets regarding US server (includes a funny typo):
"I wanted to come by and let you know that your issue was in fact handled by the correct derpartment. Game Masters are the support side for all of our game, and as such, they handle issues that are submitted from us/battle.net as well."


Hm, very weird. That must be the case. I was rather confused when he/she said something about World of Warcraft so maybe that's the case. Thanks for clearing that up.

Although, some Game Masters are really butt-hurt and don't like answering my questions and instead give me some links to the StarCraft 2 guide or some shit like that. And then others, are pretty cool such as the one I posted in the picture.

As of right now, I talking to the Game Masters via the ticket support system (I may as well be abusing it this way). I will post if anything interesting shows up.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Roxy
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada753 Posts
February 08 2012 22:45 GMT
#851
Do you think we should all submit a ticket?

bothering them too much could leave them spending too much time replying to us and not enough actually fixing the issues?

on the other hand, the more we bother, probably the faster they will react
http://sc2ranks.com/us/941824/Roxy - Masters Protoss: "Respect my authoritai"
Twiggs
Profile Joined January 2011
United States600 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 23:56:44
February 08 2012 22:47 GMT
#852
Links to the D3 forum topics. They are just as mad about having shit chat.

Thread 1 (Maxed): http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015163779
Thread 2: (Maxed) http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015344357
Thread 3: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015205370

You might want to include it in the OP seeing as D3 and SC 2 are linked.
My life for Auir | FLASH . JD . BISU . HERO . Nony . Incontrol . FIGHTING
tnud
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden2233 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 22:54:10
February 08 2012 22:53 GMT
#853
On February 09 2012 07:47 R3demption wrote:
Links to the D3 forum topics. They are just as mad about having shit chat.

Thread 1 (Maxed): http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015163779
Thread 2: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015344357

You might want to include it in the OP seeing as D3 and SC 2 are linked.

Actually the d3 forum is on their third thread
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015205370
gg. They are even angrier then we are
- ಠ_ಠ - | disinfect wrote: AHAHHAHAHA 2DG FUCK ME ALREADY.
godly-cheese
Profile Joined November 2011
United States67 Posts
February 08 2012 22:54 GMT
#854
On February 09 2012 07:47 R3demption wrote:
Links to the D3 forum topics. They are just as mad about having shit chat.

Thread 1 (Maxed): http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015163779
Thread 2: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015344357

You might want to include it in the OP seeing as D3 and SC 2 are linked.


Thread 2 is maxed now. I feel strongly about everything that is in the OP so I really want some official responses, so I can go to bed knowing that BNet 0.2 might not suck after all.

These things will either happen in HotS or LotV. LAN might even come at LotV after we've complained so much since Activision/Blizzard finally have our money :/
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
nucLeaRTV
Profile Joined May 2011
Romania822 Posts
February 08 2012 23:00 GMT
#855
On February 09 2012 07:54 godly-cheese wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 07:47 R3demption wrote:
Links to the D3 forum topics. They are just as mad about having shit chat.

Thread 1 (Maxed): http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015163779
Thread 2: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4015344357

You might want to include it in the OP seeing as D3 and SC 2 are linked.


Thread 2 is maxed now. I feel strongly about everything that is in the OP so [color=red]I really want some official responses, so I can go to bed knowing that BNet 0.2 might not suck after all.[/color]

These things will either happen in HotS or LotV. LAN might even come at LotV after we've complained so much since Activision/Blizzard finally have our money :/


Seriously, it's so clear that they don't really care about the game's design as long as they've earned a lot of money from it.
You can't feed the dog and then ask him to run for 2 hours straight. They ran a little, dropped here and there some weird balance patches (and some needed, indeed), they kept their own idea that the UI is fine, no need for improvment (We EVEN got chat channels, what else do we want??) and they're now sitting and waiting for the next campaign to finish so they can release the next expansion.
"Having your own haters means you are famous"
Glasse
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1237 Posts
February 08 2012 23:01 GMT
#856
I like watching tournaments but I can't get myself to log on and play anymore. Match making is boring to do all the time (to me at least) and the custom map list is terrible.
Roxy
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada753 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 23:03:12
February 08 2012 23:02 GMT
#857
I know rite?

We want some information!

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
http://sc2ranks.com/us/941824/Roxy - Masters Protoss: "Respect my authoritai"
korona
Profile Joined October 2009
1098 Posts
February 08 2012 23:05 GMT
#858
On February 08 2012 19:34 Parnass wrote:
one question, why don't we try to write dbrowder@blizzard.com directly? I mean it works with congress men and gabe newell, why not with dustin browder :D


Browder is not necessarily making big decisions regarding SC2 and its' Battle.net features. Guys like Rob Pardo & Frank Pearce are more likely to make the high level decisions.

I still remember 2009 when the 'no LAN' policy was announced. Chris Sigaty told in some interviews that they were considering some kind of semi-LAN (presumably online authentication -based), but Rob Pardo strictly answered that there will be no LAN when he was interviewed in the same event.

Regarding the future 'improvements' of Battle.net we can expect that the marketplace will be one. During Gamescon 2011 Frank Pearce named that not having marketplace ready during the launch of SC2 is one of the biggest failures by Blizzard: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/08/17/blizzard-co-founder-we-failed-with-the-starcraft-marketplace.aspx and VOD (regarding the failures at 37:05) http://www.own3d.tv/video/183126/Blizzard_Press_Conference_GamesCom_2011

Parnass
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany145 Posts
February 08 2012 23:07 GMT
#859
On February 09 2012 08:05 korona wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 19:34 Parnass wrote:
one question, why don't we try to write dbrowder@blizzard.com directly? I mean it works with congress men and gabe newell, why not with dustin browder :D


Browder is not necessarily making big decisions regarding SC2 and its' Battle.net features. Guys like Rob Pardo & Frank Pearce are more likely to make the high level decisions.

I still remember 2009 when the 'no LAN' policy was announced. Chris Sigaty told in some interviews that they were considering some kind of semi-LAN (presumably online authentication -based), but Rob Pardo strictly answered that there will be no LAN when he was interviewed in the same event.

Regarding the future 'improvements' of Battle.net we can expect that the marketplace will be one. During Gamescon 2011 Frank Pearce named that not having marketplace ready during the launch of SC2 is one of the biggest failures by Blizzard: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/08/17/blizzard-co-founder-we-failed-with-the-starcraft-marketplace.aspx and VOD (regarding the failures at 37:05) http://www.own3d.tv/video/183126/Blizzard_Press_Conference_GamesCom_2011




thanks for the info, I guess rob pardo it should be then. I feel this issue is so immensely important And I just can't wait to get an official statement at least recognizing the problem... they fucked up and they should own up to it, there is no way around that!
blizzind
Profile Joined February 2010
United States642 Posts
February 08 2012 23:15 GMT
#860
if diablo3 is going to be the same way then i'm not sure if i even want to buy it
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