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On March 05 2012 04:29 frozenrb wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 04:15 Kimaker wrote:On March 05 2012 04:08 Ventor wrote:
Why do you people refuse to accept change? The carrier didn't fit into what Blizzard had designed so they are removing it. I'm sorry that you don't like it but you need understand Blizzard's decision. Just because YOU like it and think it fits in the game, doesnt mean Blizzard does as well and they are in charge of balance, not you. Please stop complaining, look forward to what HOTS will bring, not what it's taking away. Listen buddy.... I'm already 99% resolved to not bother with HOTS. This would push me to 100%. The Carrier is more than a unit, it's an emblem, a symbol of an entire race in the game. For 10 years this unit encapsulated the essence of "protoss" for a large number of people and you're going to chalk up our argument to "refuse to accept change"? Fine, maybe we are being stubborn, but at least try and understand where we're coming from here. There's a history. A deep one. We're not just screaming to save it because, because because, but rather because there's an emotional attachment. And hell, beyond that Blizzard really HASN'T done anything to try and make the unit viable. That's the problem with game industry. If game developers delete something from game, something witch many people identify with, there are 99% of people who thinks that sux. Tell me how many of you saw usage of Carrier in tournaments?? Maybe 2-3 times??? This is eSport game. Bliizzard hasn't done anything to change it because it's that emblem, a symbol of an entire race in the game... You want them to be small, fast?? Or what ?? I see many people after that kinds of changes bitching all the time. "Oh oh it's carrier why it is so small blizzard make huuuge mistake.. it should be flagship of protos.. BIG, SLOW, AND rape shit..." Because it is like it is people don't use it. SC2 is by design very fast game.
By that arguement we should get rid of broodlords and tanks too.
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Your edit is stupid. Blizzard's comments regarding muta zvp, ending up in the phoenix change, was something like "we were gonna wait until hots to respond to the issues p players face vs mutalisks, but decided to make a change before that". The phoenix change is a contemperary solution (in their eyes) until Hots launch, so it means jack shit when it comes to the carrier.
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On March 05 2012 04:27 Indolent wrote:
Anybody remember Lost Viking? Carrier boss had some kind of special attack there. Just use it, give it splash damage versus air and there, no need for Tempest at all.
oh ya, cause when your opponent has spire tech and air upgrades the first thing you think is Carriers
noone used Carriers, sure for some BW peeps who havent gotten it through there heads this isnt BW2 the carrier is a cool unit
but for everyone else (ie the VAST majority) the carrier is some worthless stargate unit they never tech to
blizzard isnt removing anything becuase the carrier is a NOTHING its a worthless unit at the end of a dead tech noone would ever go air toss, terrans only eer go sky terran in TvT and only in extreme late game because ground forces are jsut better, why go mass void ray when your just gonna get rolled becuase its a slow expensive tech? and if you dont go mass VR then all your investment is in your ground army so how are your carriers supposed to do anything?
if a unit you never use and never see is so important your not going to get HoTS then dont im sure the 3 less sales will totally show blizz whats what, just pretend they didnt remove the Carrier, its not like it was ever used and its not like you would notice its missing anyway
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On March 05 2012 04:36 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 04:29 frozenrb wrote:On March 05 2012 04:15 Kimaker wrote:On March 05 2012 04:08 Ventor wrote:
Why do you people refuse to accept change? The carrier didn't fit into what Blizzard had designed so they are removing it. I'm sorry that you don't like it but you need understand Blizzard's decision. Just because YOU like it and think it fits in the game, doesnt mean Blizzard does as well and they are in charge of balance, not you. Please stop complaining, look forward to what HOTS will bring, not what it's taking away. Listen buddy.... I'm already 99% resolved to not bother with HOTS. This would push me to 100%. The Carrier is more than a unit, it's an emblem, a symbol of an entire race in the game. For 10 years this unit encapsulated the essence of "protoss" for a large number of people and you're going to chalk up our argument to "refuse to accept change"? Fine, maybe we are being stubborn, but at least try and understand where we're coming from here. There's a history. A deep one. We're not just screaming to save it because, because because, but rather because there's an emotional attachment. And hell, beyond that Blizzard really HASN'T done anything to try and make the unit viable. That's the problem with game industry. If game developers delete something from game, something witch many people identify with, there are 99% of people who thinks that sux. Tell me how many of you saw usage of Carrier in tournaments?? Maybe 2-3 times??? This is eSport game. Bliizzard hasn't done anything to change it because it's that emblem, a symbol of an entire race in the game... You want them to be small, fast?? Or what ?? I see many people after that kinds of changes bitching all the time. "Oh oh it's carrier why it is so small blizzard make huuuge mistake.. it should be flagship of protos.. BIG, SLOW, AND rape shit..." Because it is like it is people don't use it. SC2 is by design very fast game. By that arguement we should get rid of broodlords and tanks too.
And, battlecruiser
I know that you will point that out, but Zerg have units with support broodlords, they are great siege units with infestor and other compositions. They are constructed from unit that you can actually use, not tech patch witch by design is broken.
edit.
And carriers look stupid.
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On March 05 2012 04:42 frozenrb wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 04:36 1Eris1 wrote:On March 05 2012 04:29 frozenrb wrote:On March 05 2012 04:15 Kimaker wrote:On March 05 2012 04:08 Ventor wrote:
Why do you people refuse to accept change? The carrier didn't fit into what Blizzard had designed so they are removing it. I'm sorry that you don't like it but you need understand Blizzard's decision. Just because YOU like it and think it fits in the game, doesnt mean Blizzard does as well and they are in charge of balance, not you. Please stop complaining, look forward to what HOTS will bring, not what it's taking away. Listen buddy.... I'm already 99% resolved to not bother with HOTS. This would push me to 100%. The Carrier is more than a unit, it's an emblem, a symbol of an entire race in the game. For 10 years this unit encapsulated the essence of "protoss" for a large number of people and you're going to chalk up our argument to "refuse to accept change"? Fine, maybe we are being stubborn, but at least try and understand where we're coming from here. There's a history. A deep one. We're not just screaming to save it because, because because, but rather because there's an emotional attachment. And hell, beyond that Blizzard really HASN'T done anything to try and make the unit viable. That's the problem with game industry. If game developers delete something from game, something witch many people identify with, there are 99% of people who thinks that sux. Tell me how many of you saw usage of Carrier in tournaments?? Maybe 2-3 times??? This is eSport game. Bliizzard hasn't done anything to change it because it's that emblem, a symbol of an entire race in the game... You want them to be small, fast?? Or what ?? I see many people after that kinds of changes bitching all the time. "Oh oh it's carrier why it is so small blizzard make huuuge mistake.. it should be flagship of protos.. BIG, SLOW, AND rape shit..." Because it is like it is people don't use it. SC2 is by design very fast game. By that arguement we should get rid of broodlords and tanks too. And, battlecruiser I know that you will point that out, but Zerg have units with support broodlords, they are great siege units with infestor and other compositions. They are constructed from unit that you can actually use, not tech patch witch by design is broken. edit. And carriers look stupid.
You look stupid.
^_^
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On March 05 2012 04:42 frozenrb wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 04:36 1Eris1 wrote:On March 05 2012 04:29 frozenrb wrote:On March 05 2012 04:15 Kimaker wrote:On March 05 2012 04:08 Ventor wrote:
Why do you people refuse to accept change? The carrier didn't fit into what Blizzard had designed so they are removing it. I'm sorry that you don't like it but you need understand Blizzard's decision. Just because YOU like it and think it fits in the game, doesnt mean Blizzard does as well and they are in charge of balance, not you. Please stop complaining, look forward to what HOTS will bring, not what it's taking away. Listen buddy.... I'm already 99% resolved to not bother with HOTS. This would push me to 100%. The Carrier is more than a unit, it's an emblem, a symbol of an entire race in the game. For 10 years this unit encapsulated the essence of "protoss" for a large number of people and you're going to chalk up our argument to "refuse to accept change"? Fine, maybe we are being stubborn, but at least try and understand where we're coming from here. There's a history. A deep one. We're not just screaming to save it because, because because, but rather because there's an emotional attachment. And hell, beyond that Blizzard really HASN'T done anything to try and make the unit viable. That's the problem with game industry. If game developers delete something from game, something witch many people identify with, there are 99% of people who thinks that sux. Tell me how many of you saw usage of Carrier in tournaments?? Maybe 2-3 times??? This is eSport game. Bliizzard hasn't done anything to change it because it's that emblem, a symbol of an entire race in the game... You want them to be small, fast?? Or what ?? I see many people after that kinds of changes bitching all the time. "Oh oh it's carrier why it is so small blizzard make huuuge mistake.. it should be flagship of protos.. BIG, SLOW, AND rape shit..." Because it is like it is people don't use it. SC2 is by design very fast game. By that arguement we should get rid of broodlords and tanks too. And, battlecruiser I know that you will point that out, but Zerg have units with support broodlords, they are great siege units with infestor and other compositions. They are constructed from unit that you can actually use, not tech patch witch by design is broken. edit. And carriers look stupid.
God forbid Blizzard actually tries to fix something instead of just scrapping it for an even worse unit from the looks of it.
And it certainly doesn't look anymore stupid than half the units in the game. (cough infestor cough)
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My problem with removing Carriers is that they NEVER tweaked it to try to fix it
Make the interceptors heal when they go inside the Carrier (like they did in Broodwar) as part of the faster deploy speed upgrade.
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My problem with removing Carriers is that they NEVER tweaked it to try to fix it
Make the interceptors heal when they go inside the Carrier (like they did in Broodwar) as part of the faster deploy speed upgrade.
corrupters ignore the intercepters and marines kill them all before they return
your fix wouldnt fix
the problem isnt with the carrier its with other untis, aside from nerfing the corrupter and marine to uselessness the carrier is useless
there is no wa to fix the carrier
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It makes me sad they want to be rid of the Carrier yet keep a pile of thrash like the Colossus(gimme reavers yo). That said the Carrier cannot stay as it is, needs some reworking.
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Idea:
Give the Carrier a spell that allows you to bombard a specific area with your interceptors. Think of it as similar to the Thor's ability (no stun though), only more impressive looking, attacking both air and ground, and basically says "You stay in this area, you DIE" (versus something like the sentry, which just pushes out out of an area). If it was long ranged enough, it could even add some more board control to the game, and it would make the carrier fulfill a different role than Collosi
Edit: Or they could just make the Carrier fulfill the Collosi's role, then remove Collosi =P
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On March 05 2012 05:00 TheRealPaciFist wrote:
Idea:
Give the Carrier a spell that allows you to bombard a specific area with your interceptors. Think of it as similar to the Thor's ability (no stun though), only more impressive looking, attacking both air and ground, and basically says "You stay in this area, you DIE" (versus something like the sentry, which just pushes out out of an area). If it was long ranged enough, it could even add some more board control to the game, and it would make the carrier fulfill a different role than Collosi
oh ya becuase the Thors spell was so amazing that adding it onto the carrier would make it awesome
that was sarcasm, adding storm to carrier wouldnt make it good
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Long live the Carrier.
Blizzard says that they want to go away from the deathball and add the best deathball unit ever, Temptest. It makes no sense...
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On March 05 2012 04:37 Forikorder wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 05 2012 04:27 Indolent wrote:
Anybody remember Lost Viking? Carrier boss had some kind of special attack there. Just use it, give it splash damage versus air and there, no need for Tempest at all. oh ya, cause when your opponent has spire tech and air upgrades the first thing you think is Carriers noone used Carriers, sure for some BW peeps who havent gotten it through there heads this isnt BW2 the carrier is a cool unit but for everyone else (ie the VAST majority) the carrier is some worthless stargate unit they never tech to blizzard isnt removing anything becuase the carrier is a NOTHING its a worthless unit at the end of a dead tech noone would ever go air toss, terrans only eer go sky terran in TvT and only in extreme late game because ground forces are jsut better, why go mass void ray when your just gonna get rolled becuase its a slow expensive tech? and if you dont go mass VR then all your investment is in your ground army so how are your carriers supposed to do anything? if a unit you never use and never see is so important your not going to get HoTS then dont im sure the 3 less sales will totally show blizz whats what, just pretend they didnt remove the Carrier, its not like it was ever used and its not like you would notice its missing anyway
You know that Tempest is Blizzard's answer to mass Mutas? And yes, it requires Fleet Beacon. And it's gonna replace Carrier. We're not discussing here current state of the game, but future of SC2 after HotS is out.
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Carriers are one of the coolest units in the game. They're not as useless as people like to say. I'd much rather see them get patched and changed than see the unit removed. It's one the most iconic unit in starcraft.
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On March 05 2012 04:46 Kimaker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 04:42 frozenrb wrote:On March 05 2012 04:36 1Eris1 wrote:On March 05 2012 04:29 frozenrb wrote:On March 05 2012 04:15 Kimaker wrote:On March 05 2012 04:08 Ventor wrote:
Why do you people refuse to accept change? The carrier didn't fit into what Blizzard had designed so they are removing it. I'm sorry that you don't like it but you need understand Blizzard's decision. Just because YOU like it and think it fits in the game, doesnt mean Blizzard does as well and they are in charge of balance, not you. Please stop complaining, look forward to what HOTS will bring, not what it's taking away. Listen buddy.... I'm already 99% resolved to not bother with HOTS. This would push me to 100%. The Carrier is more than a unit, it's an emblem, a symbol of an entire race in the game. For 10 years this unit encapsulated the essence of "protoss" for a large number of people and you're going to chalk up our argument to "refuse to accept change"? Fine, maybe we are being stubborn, but at least try and understand where we're coming from here. There's a history. A deep one. We're not just screaming to save it because, because because, but rather because there's an emotional attachment. And hell, beyond that Blizzard really HASN'T done anything to try and make the unit viable. That's the problem with game industry. If game developers delete something from game, something witch many people identify with, there are 99% of people who thinks that sux. Tell me how many of you saw usage of Carrier in tournaments?? Maybe 2-3 times??? This is eSport game. Bliizzard hasn't done anything to change it because it's that emblem, a symbol of an entire race in the game... You want them to be small, fast?? Or what ?? I see many people after that kinds of changes bitching all the time. "Oh oh it's carrier why it is so small blizzard make huuuge mistake.. it should be flagship of protos.. BIG, SLOW, AND rape shit..." Because it is like it is people don't use it. SC2 is by design very fast game. By that arguement we should get rid of broodlords and tanks too. And, battlecruiser I know that you will point that out, but Zerg have units with support broodlords, they are great siege units with infestor and other compositions. They are constructed from unit that you can actually use, not tech patch witch by design is broken. edit. And carriers look stupid. You look stupid. ^_^
I had to check on google how they look, that often they are used.
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+1 for this entire thread. The carrier is emblematic to the toss and should stay in the game.
Up the movement speed and put interceptor free are good suggestions. Nicely done OP.
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On March 05 2012 04:15 Kimaker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2012 04:08 Ventor wrote:
Why do you people refuse to accept change? The carrier didn't fit into what Blizzard had designed so they are removing it. I'm sorry that you don't like it but you need understand Blizzard's decision. Just because YOU like it and think it fits in the game, doesnt mean Blizzard does as well and they are in charge of balance, not you. Please stop complaining, look forward to what HOTS will bring, not what it's taking away. Listen buddy.... I'm already 99% resolved to not bother with HOTS. This would push me to 100%. The Carrier is more than a unit, it's an emblem, a symbol of an entire race in the game. For 10 years this unit encapsulated the essence of "protoss" for a large number of people and you're going to chalk up our argument to "refuse to accept change"? Fine, maybe we are being stubborn, but at least try and understand where we're coming from here. There's a history. A deep one. We're not just screaming to save it because, because because, but rather because there's an emotional attachment. And hell, beyond that Blizzard really HASN'T done anything to try and make the unit viable.
Would you rather a balanced game or a game that lets you reminisce? Do you think Blizzard are laughing in their huge offices about taking out the carrier? No. They don't want to remove it but they don't have a choice when it comes to balance. We don't know their position right now but you have to realize that companies make decisions based on the companies best interest. They wouldn't remove it if they didn't feel they had to. If you decide to quit because they remove a unit they don't see fit, then so be it. They won't miss you.
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oh why did this thread revive, after seeing more carrier use overall ? If people start to micro them properly they would really do well and would see even more use. Well still a year till HotS so i guess the carrier is fine, unless the zerg deathball gets nerfed into oblivion.
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Here I will fix the carrier for you:
Option A: Increase utility as a damage dealer to critical units (while being able to kite away from harm easily)
1.) launch range increased to 9 or 10 (kiting range stays at 12)
2.) Moving will not pull interceptors back
3.) Increase acceleration to be same as current mothership
Option B: make it into a tier 3 tank that screws with targeting AI
1.) Interceptor health doubled
2.) Interceptor armor increased to 2/stacks with guardian shield.
3.) Interceptors repair automatically when inside carrier
Some combination of both of the above will make the carrier into a great support unit that screws with targeting AI and can dance with both vikings and corruptors late game. The unit can pick off critical casters and important units when necessary without exposing itself to too much fire.
Ideal scenario:
Example 1)
late game toss death ball vs. MMMVG:
2 Carrier mixed in prevent Vikings from sniping Colossus without taking damage, Vikings cannot escape Carrier Interceptor range up to the 12 kiting range. When Vikings focus down colossus, they take damage from Carriers, when they focus on carriers, they get kited back into stalkers without the interceptors coming back.
Ghosts can get sniped without Blink stalkers having to blink in and open themselves up to damage.
As the 16 interceptors fly out, the Marines shoot at the interceptors instead of the zealots, or when the zealots melt, sentries and stalkers are saved by the interceptors that are left. Interceptor health Increase makes them excellent tanks for the more expensive protoss units below them.
Example 2)
PvZ late game.
Carriers snipe broodlords out of range of Corruptors and can snipe Infestors outside range of Fungal. Increased range and pullback ability allows carriers to pepper corruptors with interceptors at a distance of 10 range away. The corruptors must fly 2 additional range before being able to leave the kill zone of the interceptors, so as a zerg player you lose free corruptors to carriers that pick at your army.
Carrier interceptor range of 10 would be higher than the 9.5 range of broodlords, preventing free "pot shots" from broodlords on the protoss ball of death. The two balls of death are now able to skirmish against each other (brood lord picking at ground army, carriers picking at air units) but will have trouble engaging.
If you make the carrier this way, the mothership and vortex will no longer need to be in the game for PvZ late game since the toss ball can now zone out the zerg ball.
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On March 05 2012 05:32 willyallthewei wrote:
Here I will fix the carrier for you:
Option A: Increase utility as a damage dealer to critical units (while being able to kite away from harm easily)
1.) launch range increased to 9 (kiting range stays at 12)
2.) Moving will not pull interceptors back
3.) Increase acceleration to be same as current mothership
Option B: make it into a tier 3 tank that screws with targeting AI
1.) Interceptor health doubled
2.) Interceptor armor increased to 2/stacks with guardian shield.
3.) Interceptors repair automatically when inside carrier
Some combination of both of the above will make the carrier into a great support unit that screws with targeting AI and can dance with both vikings and corruptors late game. The unit can pick off critical casters and important units when necessary without exposing itself to too much fire.
option B would prabably almsot make it slightly viable agaisnt Terran
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EPT
