EPTThere are probably more interesting games from MLG but I couldn't see much due to the fact that I live in Europe, so if anyone recommends another game, don't hesitate to not do this one ;-)
Intimate ZvX with Stoic - Page 32
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Aelendis
Belgium892 Posts
There are probably more interesting games from MLG but I couldn't see much due to the fact that I live in Europe, so if anyone recommends another game, don't hesitate to not do this one ;-) | ||
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FXOTheoRy
United States519 Posts
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stoicRegret
Canada206 Posts
On June 12 2012 01:42 LgNTheoRy wrote: Hello Regret. In episode 21 you posted a game vs me, and you insult my play and accuse me of hacking. This is really unprofessional and disrespectful, and please consider this when analyzing your ladder replays in the future. Thanks. DefinitelY meant it as a joke. If you follow all of our VODs, you'd understand the sarcastic nature of our VODs. However, i do sincerely appologize for the blunt statement about hacking. I know you do not hack as I have played you many times. Hope to have ggs with you in the future. | ||
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stoicRegret
Canada206 Posts
On June 12 2012 01:41 Aelendis wrote: It would be nice if you could analyse the game between Stephano and SaSe on Metropolis. I think there's not much to analyse from the game in general since it's just a 2-bases timing but I'd like to hear your views on Stephano's play. Like, what do you think he did wrong on that game, since he's supposed to have one of the bests ZvP worldwide? There are probably more interesting games from MLG but I couldn't see much due to the fact that I live in Europe, so if anyone recommends another game, don't hesitate to not do this one ;-) This game was played very oddly by stephano. Normally he responds to this much better. To deal with an early 3rd and 4th gas using a stephano style, view game one of that series. He simply recognized that rediculously high investment was going into immortals, and so he rushed to infestors. If Sase decides to push out with 4 imortals at the 10 minute mark as he did on metropolis, then you will have 5-6 infestors out in time. Compile this up with any number of lings and roaches on 4 hatches, you will be hard countering the strategy. | ||
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oZii
United States1198 Posts
Also in your last vods you said that you go 17 gas now in ZvT will you be going over your new ZvT opening? | ||
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stoicRegret
Canada206 Posts
On June 12 2012 02:04 oZii wrote: It seems that DRG favors going a few early roaches then quickly transitioning into mutaling. Do you think this is a better strategy instead of just maxing on roach? Also in your last vods you said that you go 17 gas now in ZvT will you be going over your new ZvT opening? ZvP has a lot to discuss about, but here is how i see it in a nutshell: The roach max push on paper should not work vs specifically designed strategies protoss have to take a 3rd base. The reason for this is that all of them know that a roach max push is possible. Proper walling, imortal counts, and most importantly good forcefields are suppose to stop them from dieing to a max roach push. That being said, there are only really 2 HARD counter 3rd-base strategies protoss have against the roach push. One would be a stupidly high number of imortals built first before they take their base (imagine 3 imortals at the 9 minute mark, then taking their 3rd), and the other would be voidray openings with 2-3 voidrays, into imortals (EVERYTHING here counters roaches now). So, for the sake of not saying "if you max roach and multi-pronged attack, you will beat everyone with less APM than you..", we can analyze how to punish 3 base protoss from a econ point of view. Roaches are a gas deposit, and so lings are the mineral deposit. Therefore, i never want to go more than 1 gas deposits, and I always want to resort back to lings if I am gearing up for a new gas deposit (waiting for the spire or infestation pit or HYDRA DEN?!??! to finish). So, if you look at it like this, then you can invest into max roach if and only if your strategy is to play roach for a good 2-3 minutes. With this in mind, DRG simply believes that max roach will do less damage to his opponents than Mutas would have in these specific games. It is not to say that max roach is worse than going straight to muta, simply they are both two different strategies that allocate your gas deposit differently at around the 10-12 minute mark of the game. I'd say that a general rule of thumb would be to base your decision of what to max on by looking at the wall he is making with his gateways and pylons. The better walls on maps with tighter chokes make it very very difficult for his army to move around while chasing your mutas. Go mutas if you enjoy base trading and are ok with hitting your injects on time. Go roach/ling if you enjoy infestor based play, but be wary that you have to be confident in fighting large armies with infestor/ling/roach/corruptor/spines. I will be going over ZvT gas openings, just for you! Haha, thanks for watching. | ||
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niladorus
Greece116 Posts
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DoctorHot
United States42 Posts
On June 08 2012 11:29 stoicRegret wrote: Probably wasn't me. The last time I've played Stephano was before he became better than Nerchio (can't even remember how long ago this was). I looked over it again, and it's a guy called "NoRegret," I must have mixed up "NotDavid" and "Regret" haha. | ||
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BearPack
Australia35 Posts
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stoicRegret
Canada206 Posts
On June 13 2012 12:29 BearPack wrote: Absolutely love what you guys do, I've watched each video at least twice, and am picking up new concepts every time! Keep it up! <3 Thanks to everyone for watching, we really appreciate it. Shawn is back this coming Monday, post your questions or requests (unfortunately, MLG replays are not out yet, but we can talk about some of the games). GSL as well... GO NESTEAAAAAAAAA. | ||
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SupeR z
United States73 Posts
On June 14 2012 03:02 stoicRegret wrote: Thanks to everyone for watching, we really appreciate it. Shawn is back this coming Monday, post your questions or requests (unfortunately, MLG replays are not out yet, but we can talk about some of the games). GSL as well... GO NESTEAAAAAAAAA. I just want to thank you for these awesome VoDs as far as learning zerg there is definitely none better ! Im not sure if there is any vods with this subject but it would be cool to see one on quick teching to infestor ZvZ | ||
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CoNSECRATIO
Australia24 Posts
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6xFPCs
United States412 Posts
On June 12 2012 01:19 stoicRegret wrote: Hey guys, if you have any questions about the recent MLG games (especially strategies and decisions made by DRG, stephano, Symbol, and violet), we can go over them in the next VODs or simply ask them here in the forums. We haven't been getting many views as of late, compiled with Shawn being out of the country for a week; the next VODs will be a while i feel. For those of you who keep watching, thank you so much! - A sad panda Regret Care to comment on that ultra bling infestor pincer that stephano did to mkp? It's in the TL recap as a gif even, so I watched it a few times just there, and it feels.. not replicable. MKP ran on creep and was caught unsieged, so it was more MKP making a bad call (I don't know the context) instead of stephano being brilliant. Also, did you watch the kespa pros? they seem to really like launching ITs from burrowed infestors under the Terran army, which feels like stephano's old IT-led ultralisk-infestor-ling attacks. i feel like those infestors are basicalky getting thrown away doing the burrowed approach though (terran will scan 95% of the time they see eggs appear), any thoughts? | ||
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stoicRegret
Canada206 Posts
On June 15 2012 03:24 6xFPCs wrote: Care to comment on that ultra bling infestor pincer that stephano did to mkp? It's in the TL recap as a gif even, so I watched it a few times just there, and it feels.. not replicable. MKP ran on creep and was caught unsieged, so it was more MKP making a bad call (I don't know the context) instead of stephano being brilliant. Also, did you watch the kespa pros? they seem to really like launching ITs from burrowed infestors under the Terran army, which feels like stephano's old IT-led ultralisk-infestor-ling attacks. i feel like those infestors are basicalky getting thrown away doing the burrowed approach though (terran will scan 95% of the time they see eggs appear), any thoughts? Hihi, Stephano always plays this strategy vs terran. Let me just generalize Stephano's playstyle as a whole: Stephano does not win vs high level players due to his builds. He is purely winning from his unique (probably the best at this) ability to take these extremely narrow victories through 1-2 amazing decisions. A lot of his games comes down to what I call a one-luck moment. However, even though the word lucky is used to describe these engagements, he is constantly putting himself in situations that create the opportunity for this to happen. That way, when this occurs 4-5 times a game, he is bound to get an edge off of his amazing play rather than the strategy itself. Stephano does not prepare for matches, and his builds should definitely not be copied as they actually make no sense if your opponent plays a certain way. As for the game on entombed valley (you didn't mention which game you were refering to, so i assumed), yes MKP did screw up. But the game was not won by MKP at all. The map was very large, and stephano would probably not engage unless it was favourable in the first place. The kespa pros are a prime example of good mechanics meets "I have no idea what I'm doing". Everything they did was similar to when normal GM players were figuring out how to play sc2 at the masters level. If you use ITs while engageing, there is no reason to lose the infestors. If you are using this trick and not engageing, then yes, he will scan and kill your infestors. So don't do that. | ||
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ixi.genocide
United States981 Posts
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stoicRegret
Canada206 Posts
On June 15 2012 04:16 ixi.genocide wrote: It is so weird that you guys only get a couple hundred views. I find your videos to be extremely informative and helpful. Maybe you could ask to get on one of the weekly shows like Sotg or Itg to discuss it and get a bigger audience. We tried. No one cares about us aside from our viewers. Therefore, thank you all so much for watching. Shawn and I really do appreciate it! These are fun to do, keep zerging it up! GO NESTEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA | ||
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Noobity
United States871 Posts
I haven't been watching, and for that I'm sorry. Diablo took up a lot of my time and because of that I've been demoted :< It's clear the SC gods are punishing me for not supporting intimate ZvX the way I should, so I have to rectify that. Thanks again, dudes! | ||
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smwatkin
Canada399 Posts
On June 12 2012 01:42 LgNTheoRy wrote: Hello Regret. In episode 21 you posted a game vs me, and you insult my play and accuse me of hacking. This is really unprofessional and disrespectful, and please consider this when analyzing your ladder replays in the future. Thanks. I sincerely apologize. I took the VOD down; I know how serious of an accusation is and there's no need for it. I don't want any people watching that one in the future and getting any ridiculous ideas. Sorry, and thanks for watching! | ||
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6xFPCs
United States412 Posts
On June 15 2012 03:54 stoicRegret wrote: Hihi, Stephano always plays this strategy vs terran. Let me just generalize Stephano's playstyle as a whole: Stephano does not win vs high level players due to his builds. He is purely winning from his unique (probably the best at this) ability to take these extremely narrow victories through 1-2 amazing decisions. A lot of his games comes down to what I call a one-luck moment. However, even though the word lucky is used to describe these engagements, he is constantly putting himself in situations that create the opportunity for this to happen. That way, when this occurs 4-5 times a game, he is bound to get an edge off of his amazing play rather than the strategy itself. Stephano does not prepare for matches, and his builds should definitely not be copied as they actually make no sense if your opponent plays a certain way. As for the game on entombed valley (you didn't mention which game you were refering to, so i assumed), yes MKP did screw up. But the game was not won by MKP at all. The map was very large, and stephano would probably not engage unless it was favourable in the first place. The kespa pros are a prime example of good mechanics meets "I have no idea what I'm doing". Everything they did was similar to when normal GM players were figuring out how to play sc2 at the masters level. If you use ITs while engageing, there is no reason to lose the infestors. If you are using this trick and not engageing, then yes, he will scan and kill your infestors. So don't do that. Mm I like the way you describe stephano's zvt, I've had trouble being able to explain his style. I think you're assuming the correct game. Thanks for the insight. I will stick to BLs, still feels more stable to me than ultras. Yeah I did see flashes of "old" styles more than anything else. I still feel that just lobbing ITs from infestors within your army is still the better way to soak up tank shots. My point about losing the burrowed infestors is that when the Terran scans, those infestors are the closest targets for a decent portion of the Terran army, which means they die almost instantly, even if you're already running in with the rest of your army. I guess it's a minor issue in the end, I was mostly just hoping that either jaedong or soulkey would show up with something cool. How do you feel about DRG's run? He stated in a recent interview (not sure if before or after MLG) that ZvT is now zerg's to lose, and that if he plays perfectly, he will win. I guess I'm just tiptoeing around the question, so I'll just ask it: what do you think of the queen buff? | ||
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stoicRegret
Canada206 Posts
On June 15 2012 12:54 6xFPCs wrote: Mm I like the way you describe stephano's zvt, I've had trouble being able to explain his style. I think you're assuming the correct game. Thanks for the insight. I will stick to BLs, still feels more stable to me than ultras. Yeah I did see flashes of "old" styles more than anything else. I still feel that just lobbing ITs from infestors within your army is still the better way to soak up tank shots. My point about losing the burrowed infestors is that when the Terran scans, those infestors are the closest targets for a decent portion of the Terran army, which means they die almost instantly, even if you're already running in with the rest of your army. I guess it's a minor issue in the end, I was mostly just hoping that either jaedong or soulkey would show up with something cool. How do you feel about DRG's run? He stated in a recent interview (not sure if before or after MLG) that ZvT is now zerg's to lose, and that if he plays perfectly, he will win. I guess I'm just tiptoeing around the question, so I'll just ask it: what do you think of the queen buff? Ah, yes you are correct attributing the queen buff to the recent surge in zerg dominance (in the pro scene). Zerg has found that the ability to spread creep so efficiently allows you to comfortably get into the mid game tier army with extreme safety. This becomes very difficult for the terran player to determine whether they should play aggresive or defensively, as mass banlings destroys new-style high tech strategies, whereas defensive play is destroyed by quick hive tech strategies. Poor terrans  As for DRG, he never misses an inject. Oh my god how amazing his injects are. This is why he is one of the only zergs to consistently go mutas in both ZvT and ZvP: the ability to barely kill off the terran army with 1-2 more ling rotations is the differnece between winning and losing. Otherwise, infestor play is a lot easier! Especially when going roaches! If you have over 20 roaches, you don't even notice if you miss an inject... I'm not saying that I'm promoting poor injecting play, but it is more practical to play infestors if you don't hit your injects. That's about it. | ||
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