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On December 31 2011 06:25 Hider wrote:
This analaysis is lackingl. You definie size as number of users. What about defining size in terms of viewers watching vods or streams constantly.
Eg. if 30.000 ppl are watching streams or vods constantly, thats the size of sc2.
The size of lets say a soccer league where 9 games are played each week, and each game has an average viewership of 1.000.000, and lasts 2 hours, has a viewership of: (1000000/((24*7)/2))* 9 = 107.000
It's hard to measure number of viewers like that, and I believe there is a lot of correlation between the number of TL users number of people watching streams.
People like a community like TL because they can easily find all the info they need, I'm quite certain there's only a small portion of players that always know when GSL or MLG is happening, and they just happen to visit their website to watch.
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The vertical axis of the first graph begins at 12,000 and ends at 0. Is that graph totally screwed up or are the numbers just reversed by accident?
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On December 31 2011 06:47 hitpoint wrote:
The vertical axis of the first graph begins at 12,000 and ends at 0. Is that graph totally screwed up or are the numbers just reversed by accident?
The graph ranks the popularity of the site in comparison to others on the net. Right now Teamliquid is about the 3300th most popular site on the net.
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On December 31 2011 06:48 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 06:47 hitpoint wrote:
The vertical axis of the first graph begins at 12,000 and ends at 0. Is that graph totally screwed up or are the numbers just reversed by accident? The graph ranks the popularity of the site in comparison to others on the net. Right now Teamliquid is about the 3300th most popular site on the net.
Ah, ok that makes a lot more sense.
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On December 31 2011 06:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 06:25 Hider wrote:
This analaysis is lackingl. You definie size as number of users. What about defining size in terms of viewers watching vods or streams constantly.
Eg. if 30.000 ppl are watching streams or vods constantly, thats the size of sc2.
The size of lets say a soccer league where 9 games are played each week, and each game has an average viewership of 1.000.000, and lasts 2 hours, has a viewership of: (1000000/((24*7)/2))* 9 = 107.000 It's hard to measure number of viewers like that, and I believe there is a lot of correlation between the number of TL users number of people watching streams. People like a community like TL because they can easily find all the info they need, I'm quite certain there's only a small portion of players that always know when GSL or MLG is happening, and they just happen to visit their website to watch.
There is a high correlation undoubtely. But i still think there is a possiblity that total viewer counts have gone up even though ppl are visiting TL Less. Maybe 1 year ago ppl primarily visited TL to check for news, then they logged off, and checked it again 1 hour letter. Perhaps today ppl at logging into TL to see a stream which they will watch for a few hours.
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30k and 60k? holy shit =O those aren't even players I would consider to be that big name
thanks for the analysis, it is nice!
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Personally, I felt a bit of an oversaturation in terms of major tournaments. I think there was a big tournament to watch almost every weekend from September to November. Certainly we noticed some players have fatigue issues with all the traveling. One weekend even, I believe it was IEM NY and MLG Orlando were scheduled the same weekend. I'm not saying having tons of events is bad, but hopefully one can see that the sc2 fanbase is in fact limited and splitting their attention with two events hurts one if not both of those events that rely on the viewership to survive.
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I find the only major tournaments in SC2 that help promote true skills are GSL, NASL, and (as much as I hate to say it) MLG. GSL and NASL are not getting as many attention as they deserve, especially GSL where the top level players are displayed. I see people saying Stephano was the best player a few weeks ago, but he would be absolutely demolished in Code S RO 16 and thereafter. The TeamLiquid community is paying too much attention to tournaments that confine to mainly foreigners and honestly have little idea who are the best players.
Sorry as I have gotten off topic a bit, but my point is that the competition of StarCraft 2 is falling because of the amount of tournaments and how the attention is being diverted and distributed to tournaments that, in all honesty, don't matter.
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I would say sc2 like sc1 will wither slowly but never die. So long as you have a professional level you will inspire more people to join filling lower leagues and the few that get better will replace quiting higher league players.
New expansions will start the process over but the options given in the OP are not quite fair.
I picked decline however I only meant that in the way that the overall player base will decrease as it does with all games but starcraft as an esport only grows.
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On December 31 2011 06:02 adrenaLinG wrote:
Anyone that's been on BNet knows that more than half their friends list doesn't go on anymore since Season 3.
My guess is that there are a lot of people like me who barely play anymore but still follow the scene. Personally I recently sold my gaming PC because I didn't use it anymore and college, my social life and work take up most of my time to be honest.
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On December 31 2011 07:02 bopoznpvt wrote:
Personally, I felt a bit of an oversaturation in terms of major tournaments. I think there was a big tournament to watch almost every weekend from September to November. Certainly we noticed some players have fatigue issues with all the traveling. One weekend even, I believe it was IEM NY and MLG Orlando were scheduled the same weekend. I'm not saying having tons of events is bad, but hopefully one can see that the sc2 fanbase is in fact limited and splitting their attention with two events hurts one if not both of those events that rely on the viewership to survive.
I agree with the fact we have an oversaturation of SC2 tournaments.
At first glance, having an abundance of content is great because only the best will survive, but simultaneously I feel we are spreading the viewership too thin and making it hard for casual viewers to feel connected. Too much supply with not enough demand.
Although I prefer SC2 as a spectator, I think Korean BW has better content management. BW generally has one team league (Proleague) to give exposure to all teams and most players, and one (formerly two) individual league (OSL) to give exposure to star players. That's it. With a limited amount of content available the value of each game goes up, all fans know when / where to view the games, and view all the same matches (allowing better discussions, etc.).
I doubt this is possible at the moment with SC2 still being so young, teams needing to get more exposure and sponsors, and it being as international as it is, but I would definitely prefer this in the future.
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On December 31 2011 06:05 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 06:02 adrenaLinG wrote:
Anyone that's been on BNet knows that more than half their friends list doesn't go on anymore since Season 3. See the way many many hobbies in life work is that yes, people will leave, but new blood comes, the problem with SC2 is very few new players are coming into the scene.
I agree with you, except there is no problem. Sc2 is not dieing. The people who wouldnt just watch sc2 are leaving..it may be going down, but dont be worried
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Starcraft and eSports are clearly in a "bubble" growth, we just ahve to hope the bubble doesn't pop..
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On December 31 2011 07:33 xXxSepirothxXx wrote:
Starcraft and eSports are clearly in a "bubble" growth, we just ahve to hope the bubble doesn't pop..
I just highlighted the important part of your post.
No we don't hope, we caress it so it doesn't pop, not just pray or whatever you wish to say.
Why do people just assume that everything will work out, it's not a reality, and if you look at the raw facts and statistics, I don't think it will succeed if we let esports run its own course.
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haha, these aren't very good stats. tl.net isn't going to be affected drastically by any trends b/c only sc freaks post here ;p. if you want to watch graphs plummet, check out more mainstream stuff like youtube views. all the "2011 esports is huge guys" might have a heart attack when they find out 2010 was sc2's peak.
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I'd say a slow and steady increase.
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the stats may not be good, and also the analysis falls short. the majority of people i meet on battle.net ( lower ranks ie bronze- > gold) have no idea what TL is
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Kind of expected this sc2 decline. I think the reason (at least for me) that people stop playing as much is that starcraft is such an intense game and often is really fustrating, while other videogames like Cod, LoL, and Skyrim are fun and relaxing. Don't get me wrong, I think playing is fun, but its hard to pick starcraft over other games when you know that you might rage and be in a bad mood the rest of the day, while for other games you know you will have a good time.
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It's true i spend less time in teamliquid.net because i also visit other starcraft sites and i also believe the scene will eventually lose players that only wanted to play SP, people with bad pcs, people with no internet or bad internet.
I don't play starcraft regularly, i don't think i played 200 games on Bnet and i have the game since dez 2011. Now i spend my time in starcraft watching streams, GSL, tl and other sites, I think I'm a fan of starcraft and of teams and players.
First you get overwhelmed with the content and after a while i might get a bit bored and then you become more selective, you chose what you want to see and wait for it, i see a few MLG games each day if you can or even travel there and watch it live. If you want to play skyrim a few hours a day for a few weeks maybe you wont spend it watching a stream or whatever.
My point is if you consume to much of anything because you are not a pro player or a guy trying it's only natural and even healthy to take a break sometime.
EDIT:
One possible solution would be if Blizzard created a calendar for e-sport events and tournaments with starcraft and their other e-sport games, in a very exposed part of battle.net in-game and site. Help promote the events they charge for..
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maybe it's not less new people but more people leaving because of doom and gloom threads?
this hurts my head.
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EPT
