EPTand got well deserved backlash for it.
An article on Naniwa from Thisisgame - Page 75
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
and got well deserved backlash for it. | ||
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Femari
United States2900 Posts
On December 14 2011 12:09 U_G_L_Y wrote: I am finding that the line between making my point with humorous sarcasm and straight up trolling people who are logically challenged is getting kind of hazy, so I better be done for tonight before I say something that gets me banned. He participated because he wanted to win the tournament and the money. Once that was no longer a possibility, he stopped trying. Goodnight folks. Doesn't really justify throwing games that you agreed to play. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On December 14 2011 11:24 U_G_L_Y wrote: MLB, NBA, NHL, NFL etc are not stupid enough to create a format where players have no chance of getting paid and are still required to play. For the record, I'm not saying that Naniwa isn't an immature little brat, but we already knew that. I'm saying that the tournament format is stupid and there is no logical basis for condemning his actions in this instance. I guess a lot of the good stuff gets lost in the shit storm. Those sports are not only team sports, but it also comes down to the individual athlete performance as well. They lose as a team, but you can have several players who played incredibly poor and showed lack of effort for whatever reason. It's far more complex than you guys are making it out to be and I already addressed that. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia12799 Posts
If you think that doing the bare-arse minimum is ok because you're "meeting your obligations" then GL in life. You'll need it. | ||
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sechkie
United States334 Posts
I feel like this is against u lol | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15391 Posts
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mlspmatt
Canada404 Posts
This may sound very emotional but Naniwa does not have qualifications to be a pro gamer. This statement is beyond the pale. The game was irrelevant, it meant nothing, Naniwa was out, Nestea was out, the game was meaningless. Naniwa lost a game on purpose, he threw a game again Yes he did. An irrelevant game. A game that didn't matter. A game that should not have existed. This isn't game fixing or collusion. This is a player who was upset and threw a meaningless game. I don't understand the outcry. | ||
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MorningMusume11
United States3490 Posts
On December 14 2011 12:27 Mohdoo wrote: Man, talk about culture clash. Korea is being completely and totally ridiculous. They barely even have a SC2 scene, so they could really stand to be a little more subtle. You should be thankful that there's enough national support in Korea to have a structured SC2 league... cuz wouldn't start one on their own. That so called "ridiculous" county provided the foundation for the SC2 scene you follow. On December 14 2011 12:30 mlspmatt wrote: This is a bit ridiculous. This statement is beyond the pale. The game was irrelevant, it meant nothing, Naniwa was out, Nestea was out, the game was meaningless. Yes he did. An irrelevant game. A game that didn't matter. A game that should not have existed. This isn't game fixing or collusion. This is a player who was upset and threw a meaningless game. I don't understand the outcry. The throwing of games of any nature is a question of integrity | ||
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GeNeSiDe
United Kingdom354 Posts
On December 14 2011 10:38 Roxy wrote: Hey everyone, lets look at this game: Stephano vs Bratok They were both TRYING to lose.. anyone want to hang them too? how about when nestea threw this game: and i dont have the link, but remember when Idra 6-pooled jinro in GSL.. ya.. throwing games that you dont give a crap about is nothing new. why is everyone out to hang naniwa? grow up The first game, ok fair enough, both of them were trying to get SarenS not Sen. but as I have said AGAIN AND AGAIN, you ignoramus Naniwa lovers seem to be unable to comprehend that although that game was dumb, both players were trying to avoid a superior next round opponent. It's silly, but noone suicided, they didnt do the most viable strategies but it was an entertaining match. That is not "throwing" a match. That is not the same as pulling your probes, Amoving them at your opponent and aborting all micro and macro actions. It's a smart tactical decision given the circumstances and having experience in sports tournaments I have seen this one done a million times. It's not "right" in the sense of honor but that's not exactly why everyone is on Nani's back(only part of the reason). If Stephano or BratOK had just GGed and f10-N'ed without building anything thats equivalent to Naniwa's situation. Although I think its wrong to not try to win every game it can be tolerated when it is for a reasonable, competitive reason, and when it is not obvious. Say im living in a dream world but most these players can play a pretty damn good game at 50% speed(that BRATOK v Stephano game was intensely interesting, much more than a shitty probe rush). Having a linearity of compeition is what's important when trying to establish a professional standard. Also why the hell are you saying NesTea threw a finals? Are you crazy? That game was 40min long half map? The difference between him winning and losing was literally some epic EMPS that stopped game-winning fungals from revealing the ghosts as well as the IT's needed to snipe vikings. And no, the iDra 6pool is not throwing the towel, throwing the towel is iDra cancelling his CC and GGing, which was equally well-received as naniwas actions. | ||
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MorningMusume11
United States3490 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15391 Posts
On December 14 2011 12:36 MorningMusume11 wrote: You should be thankful that there's enough national support in Korea to have a structured SC2 league... cuz wouldn't start one on their own. That so called "ridiculous" county provided the foundation for the SC2 scene you follow. They laid the foundation, but it doesn't make them deserving of any special treatment or consideration. The author of this piece of being absurd. I don't consider it a representation of all of Korea, but this guy is crazy. | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
My 12 year old son gave me a thumbs down yesterday.. now he didn't say anything bad about a tournament or anything but he has said some questionable things in the past... should I exile him also? This community is fucked. eSorts will never grow because the people who are entertained by it (incluiding myself) are immature little bitches who think giving someone a thumbs down is the end of the world. Anybody who could actually make eSports go main stream, wether it will be TV producers, or cable channels like ESPN or Spike will take one look at this cluster fuck we call a community and laugh. I can see it now, SC2 has finally made it to the big screen, we are being shown on ESPN for the first time, things are looking good for the growth of eSports "oh shit one of the ESPN producers gave Nestea a dirty look, holy fuck!!! whats the email to the president of ESPN, this is unnaceptabe, so BM, I can't believe they would allow someone to do this, did you see that shit?? Thank god I got a picture of it with my phone, I need to upload this shit to reddit and TL, we need to spread the word that this ESPN producer just gave Nestea a dirty look, then gave him a thumbs down, outrageous, can you believe that in the world we live in today someone could actually give someone a thimbs down? what is this world coming too??" Everyone is screaming the sky is falling, soon enough it will. This shit is just emberassing. | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On December 14 2011 12:30 mlspmatt wrote: This is a bit ridiculous. This statement is beyond the pale. The game was irrelevant, it meant nothing, Naniwa was out, Nestea was out, the game was meaningless. Yes he did. An irrelevant game. A game that didn't matter. A game that should not have existed. This isn't game fixing or collusion. This is a player who was upset and threw a meaningless game. I don't understand the outcry. I'm not 100% sure but i believe we have two different errors in communication here. First of all qualification in this context means mental preparation according to a korean friend of mine (i don't speak korean and he doesn't speak english well, but that is the concept he tried to explain for the word when i showed him the quote). Basically he said he lacks the attitude to be a pro gamer. You might disagree with that statement (actually i think quite a few people in this thread have disagreed with it loudly) but it's a bit less offensive than qualifications. The second error is our "western" understanding of the word "progamer" and how the korean culture sees it. In our case progamer is frankly not defined at all. You either call yourselve a pro, or you don't but there isn't any strict barrier between them. Naniwa definitly is a pro gamer according to our customs, there is no sense denying it, but it also doesn't mean much semantically, it's just a label which means different things to different people (which is where the heated discussion of 70+ pages comes from, because he doesn't fit what some people want as progamers). In Korea the cultural understanding and use of the word progamer is still connected to the Progamer license of Kespa days. It was and is a far better defined concept, including some fairly strict guidelines in how you have to behave. According to that use of the word Naniwa did not behave as a Korean progamer should have. Regarding your second quote, it really doesn't matter to the Koreans (and frankly to many western people as well) how important or unimportant a match is, if you throw a match on live TV you will get flack for it. If you throw a highly anticipated and hyped match you will get lots of flack for it. That's just the way things are, people were looking forward to the "next" installment of the Naniwa/Nestea rivalry and instead they got a proverbial "fuck you" as a game. | ||
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On December 14 2011 12:47 magnaflow wrote: I don't get what all the hate is towards Naniwa. Is it because he thumbed down Nestea? Because he called out a tournament for making a mistake? My 12 year old son gave me a thumbs down yesterday.. now he didn't say anything bad about a tournament or anything but he has said some questionable things in the past... should I exile him also? This community is fucked. eSorts will never grow because the people who are entertained by it (incluiding myself) are immature little bitches who think giving someone a thumbs down is the end of the world. Anybody who could actually make eSports go main stream, wether it will be TV producers, or cable channels like ESPN or Spike will take one look at this cluster fuck we call a community and laugh. I can see it now, SC2 has finally made it to the big screen, we are being shown on ESPN for the first time, things are looking good for the growth of eSports "oh shit one of the ESPN producers gave Nestea a dirty look, holy fuck!!! whats the email to the president of ESPN, this is unnaceptabe, so BM, I can't believe they would allow someone to do this, did you see that shit?? Thank god I got a picture of it with my phone, I need to upload this shit to reddit and TL, we need to spread the word that this ESPN producer just gave Nestea a dirty look, then gave him a thumbs down, outrageous, can you believe that in the world we live in today someone could actually give someone a thimbs down? what is this world coming too??" Everyone is screaming the sky is falling, soon enough it will. This shit is just emberassing. not sure what's more embarassing. the fact that you can't get your facts right or your inability to spell. either way both are are pretty preposterous. | ||
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mrRoflpwn
United States2618 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15391 Posts
On December 14 2011 12:50 mrRoflpwn wrote: different culture in korea- your supposed to show good games for the fans and out of respect- its pretty simple. would it really have killed Naniwa to play a simple 10 minute game and just 4 gate? I completely agree with the koreans (its just how i was raised). Naniwa's actions are pretty disrespectful to GOM. Yeah. Once he was cooled off and doing interviews about it, he said that in retrospect he should have just 4gated or something. I think that no matter what, it was not reasonable to expect either of them to put forth a big, awesome, excitement filled macro game though. I consider Naniwa and Nestea both to be "very high caliber" players, and they were both no doubt very ashamed and embarrassed with their performance/elimination. Add the fact that the two have a bit of a rivalry, which means that people are going to be looking to answer: "WHO IS BETTER??". With both being in what must have been a terrible mindset, I think both of them would have wanted to do builds that people can't draw conclusions from. I honestly don't think that Naniwa was considering the reputation of GOM, Quantic or considering the viewers. I don't think he was ignoring them. I just don't think it even crossed his mind. We've all seen that he's somewhat off in some ways socially. I really don't think it crossed his mind, with it being such a rage'y situation for him. I think the only thing going through his mind was "Fuck this shit". Obviously, this is purely conjecture, but it fits well in my head. | ||
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
Calling yourself a "pro-gamer" means that you're saying you're a "professional gamer." That means you consider yourself, to some extent, a professional. When you call yourself a professional, you aren't just saying that you earn your living by doing something. You're saying that you hold yourself to a higher standard in a given field. You take pride in your profession and you expect a degree of respect in return. And that's why the Koreans feel that Naniwa shouldn't be considered a pro-gamer alongside people like Boxer, Nestea and MVP. Serious pro-gamers understand that e-sports only exists because of the fans - they owe everything to their fans. They thank their fans for their support when they win, and they apologize to their fans when they lose. That's why they put on a good show for the fans even when the outcome doesn't matter. But Naniwa showed that he simply doesn't care about Starcraft fans. He doesn't care that they paid good money to watch him play Nestea. He was being selfish and petty, and he's too self-absorbed to even realize why people are upset with him. His post-match interview, where he whines that he's being unfairly singled out, just further demonstrates his warped, self-centered worldview. He's an embarrassment to the entire concept of e-sports, which is ostensibly what this site represents, and I'm astonished that people are contorting this into an argument about tournament format instead of seeing Naniwa for what he is. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13379 Posts
On the topic of the nestea vs MVP game from blizzcon I think its hard to say he threw it away on purpose. Naniwa's actions are completely seperate from this. The whole thing the koreans are referencing here is professionalism. It has nothing to do with whether he gets paid or not its about his attitude towards the games and how he fulfills his obligations to GOM. He signed up to play the tourney, he knew all games would be played and as such he should have actually played them all. At the very least do a strategy that might maybe work instead of a strategy that will fail and is basically just calling it in. | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
On December 14 2011 12:50 JoeSchmoe wrote: not sure what's more embarassing. the fact that you can't get your facts right or your inability to spell. either way both are are pretty preposterous. Exactly, I made a couple spelling mistakes and here you are, whining. Also if you look at where the mistakes are you will notice I just missed some letters while typing, i'll try to work on my typing skilsl before I am sentenced to death for spelling errors. | ||
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W2
United States1177 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:44 Sated wrote: Does he make most of his money from gaming? Yes. Is he therefore a pro-gamer? Yes. This is moronic. It's like saying that calling Mario Balotelli a pro-footballer is "overrating him" because he does stupid shit. NaNiWa is a pro-gamer whether you like his attitude or not. different meanings for the word "professional". Western defines pro- by income and if that is the only definition you know then it's understandable you have comprehension issues. | ||
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