EPTYou can engage them, though. Try to understand them, find flaws, and provide a counterargument to the counterargument.
An article on Naniwa from Thisisgame - Page 22
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
You can engage them, though. Try to understand them, find flaws, and provide a counterargument to the counterargument. | ||
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Roynalf
Finland886 Posts
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Russano
United States434 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:55 dartoo wrote: Half assed yes, a complete walk over, in a premier tournament like a world cup? no. Yes there have been http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germany_v_Austria_(1982) Professional teams will half ass games to get better draft picks when actually winning the game no longer becomes the goal. Kobe Bryant famously didn't shoot in game 7 of the western conference finals, to prove how shit his team was. This situation happens alot more in starcraft then people think, the only reason anyone is paying attention is because the game lasted around a minute. There have been numerous other examples in this thread already. | ||
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Sitinte
United States499 Posts
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drepnir
Norway3 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:58 SoylentCreep wrote: Actually its the same. Professional means getting payed to do something be it playing video games or cutting open people. Naniwa isn't getting paid to play video games, he's getting paid to win. Comparing this situation to a doctor trying to save a life, would mean that even if the doctor is 100% sure that the patient is dead, he is supposed to make a show of it and continue CPR, to please the family. | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:53 blae000 wrote: Very fast!! ... wow "Greg Fields is an angel compared to Naniwa" What a priceless comment! XD That was my favorite part as well XD. As a side note Greg fields wrote on twitter "dont have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously." I can see that side of the argument, but still it wouldn't hurt Naniwa to play a game vs Nestea. | ||
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SonOfMKP
United States30 Posts
On December 14 2011 01:03 Sitinte wrote: I love MVP tweeting about the fiasco at the very end of the spoiler. Yeah, isn't it just ironic as hell? On December 14 2011 01:03 radscorpion9 wrote: That was my favorite part as well XD. As a side note Greg fields wrote on twitter "dont have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously." I can see that side of the argument, but still it wouldn't hurt Naniwa to play a game vs Nestea. Do you really think that? Currently Naniwa is 2-0 (in bo3') against Nestea. Obviously he wants to keep an edge over Nestea, so by playing him seriously in this useless match would only benefit Nestea. Nestea gets practice for free. | ||
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Alacast
United States205 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:46 scatmango2 wrote: All these fucking Koreans crying like it's the end of the world need to grow the fuck up man...Naniwa can do whatever the FUCK he wants to do is not obligated to do anything. No one is obligated to do anything: eat, breathe, sleep. You could ignore all that shit, if you're badass enough right? It's not like Naniwa had to get invited to participate in the tourney/play on a team/practice in a house/get paid sponsorships right? He just goes and bangs on peoples' doors long and hard enough until they give him what he wants? Maybe some people don't like being blatantly disrespected by selfish and arrogant people who "don't give a fuck," and will do everything in their power to stop said "badasses" in their tracks when and wherever possible. If you piss enough important people off, you may just find yourself out of a job. Welcome to the world. | ||
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MiraMax
Germany532 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:58 Alpino wrote: I'm astonished with people using the argument of "Have you ever seen some football team throwing a maaatch??" Yes. Literally hundreds of time. By the end of the brazilian championship the teams that don't have nothing to fight for send their younger squad just to get them more experienced knowing they'll probably lose the game(we even have teams paying others behind the curtains to send not the best of their players to a game). Yeah ... but they don't "goalkeeper-rush" the opposing team or just decide to play with 5 players since the game doesn't matter anyway. That's exactly the point. Your slippery argument is too slippery. Every sane person knows that when nothing is on the line, spectacular performances are not to be expected. Nevertheless players who show dedication anyway and in spite of this give a good effort are usually well-respected and princess divas who only break a sweat if they can really shine are disrespected. This is all sane and normal. Now it all comes down to determining whether probe rushing belongs to the former category of good efforts or is rather a little princess strat. I'll leave this up to you. | ||
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SedativeDev
Slovenia316 Posts
All of this is just stupid. The mass people hopped on the band wagon because the pro players started talking shit about NANI. My opinion: if they are pros they should handle this situation like pros without insulting other people. | ||
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Eviscerador
Spain286 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:58 Djagulingu wrote: Naniwa plays his ass off all the way until last game: Nobody cares because its his job. He then skips one game that has zero and absolutely zero effect on the group: OUTRAGE!!!!!!! Why? Welcome to the internetz. PS: I totally support your opinion | ||
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MayorITC
Korea (South)798 Posts
On December 14 2011 00:57 Madder wrote: Right, that shows how much you love SC2 then, because of one player. Because of one player who chose not to play to his fullest because in the end, the game had no bearing on the the advance for either player in the tornament. The game shouldn't of taken place, don't feel like you've been robbed or feel like you're entitled to falsified entertainment. Actually, I do feel like I've been robbed - apparently, a sentiment shared by the Korean progamers. I will continue to support other progamers, and SC2 tournaments, but I won't financially support a tournament that involves Naniwa. It's a personal choice much like how Naniwa made a personal choice to probe rush. Questioning my love for SC2 or any other comment about how I'm hurting e-sports seems just as much of an overreaction as the people criticizing Naniwa for throwing away the game against Nestea. I'm not trying to persuade anyone else to do the same. I was just answering rblstr's original question. | ||
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Zefa
United States297 Posts
The article is a bit of an overreaction but you can't really say its not worth talking about. If this was acceptable, who draws the line in the future when another pro-gamer throws a game with very little on the line while using the naniwa/nestea game as a precedent and justification for their action? Also naniwa is a bit naive to think there was nothing on the line. He's losing respect from the community, sponsors, and players. This can definitely be detrimental to his future invitations, teams, and potential practice partners. There's also an inherent value you gain from just beating a player like Nestea in a televised tournament. Beat Nestea/MVP/MC etc in televised games that have nothing on the line and I guarantee sponsors will be more willing to raise your contract salary in the future. Its like building a resume. | ||
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PeachTea
United States149 Posts
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rblstr
Ireland398 Posts
On December 14 2011 01:05 MayorITC wrote: Actually, I do feel like I've been robbed - apparently, a sentiment shared by the Korean progamers. I will continue to support other progamers, and SC2 tournaments, but I won't financially support a tournament that involves Naniwa. It's a personal choice much like how Naniwa made a personal choice to probe rush. Questioning my love for SC2 or any other comment about how I'm hurting e-sports seems just as much of an overreaction as the people criticizing Naniwa for throwing away the game against Nestea. I'm not trying to persuade anyone else to do the same. I was just answering rblstr's original question. But you do realise that you'd be hurting the scene more than Naniwa by refusing to support MLG/Dreamhack/etc? | ||
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dartoo
India2889 Posts
On December 14 2011 01:02 Russano wrote: Yes there have been http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germany_v_Austria_(1982) Professional teams will half ass games to get better draft picks when actually winning the game no longer becomes the goal. Kobe Bryant famously didn't shoot in game 7 of the western conference finals, to prove how shit his team was. This situation happens alot more in starcraft then people think, the only reason anyone is paying attention is because the game lasted around a minute. There have been numerous other examples in this thread already. From the page you quoted " However, as the 1982 match did not live up to these expectations and was widely perceived to be fixed, many observers including German and Austrian were strongly critical of the teams' performances." "In a similar instance in the 1978 tournament, at the end of the second round group stage the Argentinian team had the benefit of knowing the result of an earlier game involving Brazil, which led to a 6-0 win over Peru, advancing them to the final by goal difference. As a result of these and similar events, FIFA ruled that in the future both final group matches must start on the same day at the same time, so as to prevent such an event ever occurring again". Clearly people were not happy, to point of changing the rules, I dont about the other thing your talking about, dont follow american sports. | ||
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redeux
United States148 Posts
My only comment is at least when teams match-fix the spectators get half a match to watch. I feel deprived of entertainment. | ||
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Russano
United States434 Posts
On December 14 2011 01:05 MayorITC wrote: Actually, I do feel like I've been robbed - apparently, a sentiment shared by the Korean progamers. I will continue to support other progamers, and SC2 tournaments, but I won't financially support a tournament that involves Naniwa. It's a personal choice much like how Naniwa made a personal choice to probe rush. Questioning my love for SC2 or any other comment about how I'm hurting e-sports seems just as much of an overreaction as the people criticizing Naniwa for throwing away the game against Nestea. I'm not trying to persuade anyone else to do the same. I was just answering rblstr's original question. It's not Naniwas fault that you or the Koreans feel entitled to a match befitting your standards. He met the standards of the competition. | ||
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centinel4
Austria50 Posts
- Immature handling of the situation? Yes - Lack of professionalism? Yes - Disrespectful to opponent, fans and others? Yes - Cultures react different to actions from others. Yes - Overreaction from Korean community? No. that is how they feel. - Foreigners just dont give a shit about respect. This is how we roll. | ||
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SonOfMKP
United States30 Posts
Theory 2: Koreans all breathe out of their mouths, but I breathe out of my nose. Should I be banned from Korea for not following their customs which are not laws or rules? Think about that. Probe rushing, while it may be identical to just walking out and not playing a match, is not the same. If GSL's rules do not involve "No worker rushing", then by all means Naniwa has every right to end a game he doesn't want to play as fast as he can by executing said strategy. You did not pay to watch Naniwa vs Nestea, you paid to watch an entire year of GSL. The naniwa vs nestea match was just a bonus, and you don't deserve a refund because you didn't like the results. | ||
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