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On December 27 2011 07:24 Lore-Fighting wrote:
The biggest thing hindering Stephano is that he is French. Their culture/work ethic is real hinderance to being able to put in the dedication to being really good at this game. Is he the most talented? Maybe, but he will never develop it. The reason why Koreans is so good is their work ethic and culture, not anything to do with race.
What is this bullshit seriously? I thought people on TL had an open-mind. Unfortunately, by leaving post like that you are reinforcing the stereotype of your own country! One thing in french culture that is extremely important is work/life balance, how can this hinder performance?
Many frenchies have been top athletes, scientists, and so on...
I really hope Stephano will continue to progress and show top play.
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On December 27 2011 07:57 Sleed wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 07:24 Lore-Fighting wrote:
The biggest thing hindering Stephano is that he is French. Their culture/work ethic is real hinderance to being able to put in the dedication to being really good at this game. Is he the most talented? Maybe, but he will never develop it. The reason why Koreans is so good is their work ethic and culture, not anything to do with race. What is this bullshit seriously? I thought people on TL had an open-mind. Unfortunately, by leaving post like that you are reinforcing the stereotype of your own country! One thing in french culture that is extremely important is work/life balance, how can this hinder performance? Many frenchies have been top athletes, scientists, and so on... I really hope Stephano will continue to progress and show top play.
Lol I agree with the Asian ethics, but not so sure about the French stereotyping. It is not limiting him, he can change himself anytime he wants to. Stephano is obviously not the MOST talented player, and his development entirely depends on his own individual will.
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On December 27 2011 07:05 mjf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 05:40 The_Darkness wrote:
(makaprime (ie, Byun -- not MKP)
for the record, i dont think anybody would think makaprime=marineking i think they would think that makaprime=makaprime
People had in fact been saying makaprime = MKP, hence my statement.
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On December 27 2011 07:24 Lore-Fighting wrote:
The biggest thing hindering Stephano is that he is French. Their culture/work ethic is real hinderance to being able to put in the dedication to being really good at this game. Is he the most talented? Maybe, but he will never develop it. The reason why Koreans is so good is their work ethic and culture, not anything to do with race.
seriously ? you should give up social studies and start getting your head out of your ass instead, wtf with the french stereotyping.
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On December 27 2011 07:24 Lore-Fighting wrote:
The biggest thing hindering Stephano is that he is French. Their culture/work ethic is real hinderance to being able to put in the dedication to being really good at this game. Is he the most talented? Maybe, but he will never develop it. The reason why Koreans is so good is their work ethic and culture, not anything to do with race.
Do you know that France has the best hourly labor productivity in the world ?
It's 50% higher than japan (i.e. the highest hourly labor productivity in asia).
It's just as it is, french people are smarter, stronger, healthier, better educated. They are truly a superior race.
So this is perfectly expected that Stephano can be as good as koreans while only practicing half the time.
Ok, enough with the stupid cliché.
More seriously, in france, you may not be legally bound to work many hours, but you still have to get your job done, so in practice, people work more than what they are paid for. On the other hand, in japan (and some other asian countries), you usually don't leave before your boss, even if it means slacking off. But what matters is that they are all capable of doing the job.
Stephano is just doing what he thinks is best to improve. It's not true that you improve more when you practice more. You learn much slower when you are exhausted. And there is worse, if you are exhausted your play will be sloppy, and this is when you risk to developp bad habits. At the end of the day, what matters is how much you improved, not how much time you have spent practicing.
I also think his training translates into Stephano's playstyle. Defending 3 pronged attacks against a terran during 1 hour with no muta to shut down the drops, this requires a high level of concentration, especially when harassing in mutiple place with infestors. I doubt he could play like that after 12hours of Starcraft.
On the contrary, if you consider a protoss player who FE against zerg to do a timing push. This requires a low level of concentration, because there is really not that much to do. But this protoss needs to practice much longer, because he needs to repeat his strategy many times to refine it.
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Stephano seems to have a solid fundamental as a zerg player, but he will need to be proficient at more zerg strategies if he wants to keep up with GSL level players. Frankly, I'm not really sure how serious he is at making a career out of SC2.
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Dominican Republic275 Posts
On December 27 2011 07:57 ninjamyst wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 07:52 Khonsou wrote:On December 27 2011 07:24 Lore-Fighting wrote:
The biggest thing hindering Stephano is that he is French. Their culture/work ethic is real hinderance to being able to put in the dedication to being really good at this game. Is he the most talented? Maybe, but he will never develop it. The reason why Koreans is so good is their work ethic and culture, not anything to do with race. Man, I hope you didn't go out of your country even one time, because if it's the case, you surely missed something. Seems like you never been out of the country either. Different countries have different cultures and work ethnics. That's a fact. Europeans tend to have more vacation days and shorter work days. That's a fact. Asian tend to be more work focused and discipline focused. That's a fact. Whether Stephano being French makes him less of a player than a Korean...that's debatable. However, you can't deny that Korean work ethnics can be correlated to their dominance of the gamr.
While surely they work more, the productivity is pretty much never in the balance. I've lived in Japan and while they sureley work countless hours, for alot of them their productivity is far from optimal. Asians are disciplined, sure, they bruteforcing apprentissage, most certainly. Is that why they are better? I'm note sure. They just are alot more mature in the pro-game industry/environment: it's accepted to be a pro gamer, they've had gaming houses for a while now, etc.
And yes, while the 35h/week is in the law, for one, it's almost never the case (more like 38h), and it's appliable only for employees, not managers. I'm pretty sure that most of the managers in my country a working 50h/week if not more.
My remark was that generalizing like this is pretty narrow-minded. I do agree that french people (me included :D) have a lot of issues regarding their culture, but if you went to France you would've seen that what compose France is A LOT of different cultures. In the case of Stephano, while he's french, he's from tunisian descend. So should that statement apply for tunisians too?
Anyway, we'll see.
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On December 27 2011 03:49 Nouar wrote:
I might be wrong but last i heard
Stephano is NOT going to take part in gsl, doesn't want to.
And he is banking money to afford his medicine studies which are VERY expensive, and to avoid a loan or parttime job. Then he'll be able to concentrate 100% on his studies. A doctor here makes around 6k euros à month i believe, i'm sure he's aware of that.
Stop assuming things.
That's all they make? In North America they make a lot more...
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On December 27 2011 23:12 Khonsou wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 07:57 ninjamyst wrote:On December 27 2011 07:52 Khonsou wrote:On December 27 2011 07:24 Lore-Fighting wrote:
The biggest thing hindering Stephano is that he is French. Their culture/work ethic is real hinderance to being able to put in the dedication to being really good at this game. Is he the most talented? Maybe, but he will never develop it. The reason why Koreans is so good is their work ethic and culture, not anything to do with race. Man, I hope you didn't go out of your country even one time, because if it's the case, you surely missed something. Seems like you never been out of the country either. Different countries have different cultures and work ethnics. That's a fact. Europeans tend to have more vacation days and shorter work days. That's a fact. Asian tend to be more work focused and discipline focused. That's a fact. Whether Stephano being French makes him less of a player than a Korean...that's debatable. However, you can't deny that Korean work ethnics can be correlated to their dominance of the gamr. While surely they work more, the productivity is pretty much never in the balance. I've lived in Japan and while they sureley work countless hours, for alot of them their productivity is far from optimal. Asians are disciplined, sure, they bruteforcing apprentissage, most certainly. Is that why they are better? I'm note sure. They just are alot more mature in the pro-game industry/environment: it's accepted to be a pro gamer, they've had gaming houses for a while now, etc. And yes, while the 35h/week is in the law, for one, it's almost never the case (more like 38h), and it's appliable only for employees, not managers. I'm pretty sure that most of the managers in my country a working 50h/week if not more. My remark was that generalizing like this is pretty narrow-minded. I do agree that french people (me included :D) have a lot of issues regarding their culture, but if you went to France you would've seen that what compose France is A LOT of different cultures. In the case of Stephano, while he's french, he's from tunisian descend. So should that statement apply for tunisians too? Anyway, we'll see.
No wonder everytime I'd see Stephano, he didn't really look caucasian to me. He looks very much like a Tunisian guy I knew.
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On December 27 2011 13:32 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 07:24 Lore-Fighting wrote:
The biggest thing hindering Stephano is that he is French. Their culture/work ethic is real hinderance to being able to put in the dedication to being really good at this game. Is he the most talented? Maybe, but he will never develop it. The reason why Koreans is so good is their work ethic and culture, not anything to do with race. Do you know that France has the best hourly labor productivity in the world ? It's 50% higher than japan (i.e. the highest hourly labor productivity in asia). It's just as it is, french people are smarter, stronger, healthier, better educated. They are truly a superior race. So this is perfectly expected that Stephano can be as good as koreans while only practicing half the time. Ok, enough with the stupid cliché. More seriously, in france, you may not be legally bound to work many hours, but you still have to get your job done, so in practice, people work more than what they are paid for. On the other hand, in japan (and some other asian countries), you usually don't leave before your boss, even if it means slacking off. But what matters is that they are all capable of doing the job. Stephano is just doing what he thinks is best to improve. It's not true that you improve more when you practice more. You learn much slower when you are exhausted. And there is worse, if you are exhausted your play will be sloppy, and this is when you risk to developp bad habits. At the end of the day, what matters is how much you improved, not how much time you have spent practicing. I also think his training translates into Stephano's playstyle. Defending 3 pronged attacks against a terran during 1 hour with no muta to shut down the drops, this requires a high level of concentration, especially when harassing in mutiple place with infestors. I doubt he could play like that after 12hours of Starcraft. On the contrary, if you consider a protoss player who FE against zerg to do a timing push. This requires a low level of concentration, because there is really not that much to do. But this protoss needs to practice much longer, because he needs to repeat his strategy many times to refine it.
Can you link me to a source that says france has the best hourly labor productivity in the world? That is a very interesting statistic. I know back in 2007 it was Luxemburg but obviously things change :D.
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Russian Federation748 Posts
Stephano is NOT going to take part in gsl, doesn't want to.
And he is banking money to afford his medicine studies which are VERY expensive, and to avoid a loan or parttime job. Then he'll be able to concentrate 100% on his studies. A doctor here makes around 6k euros à month i believe, i'm sure he's aware of that.
They're by no means very expensive. He's simply banking money because he likes banking it.
And I'm afraid I have to agree on what has been said on France and French people. Albeit people's laziness is not the real problem but simply their attitude. French people (my people, sadly) are for the most part incapable of any seriouness and effort. When was the last time you heard a French progamer/other Starcraft-related person speak correct English ? Now compare it with the Swedes and Germans. Do you often see people greeting you in their mothertongue at the beginning of a game ? Do you ever lose against Frenchmen on the ladder ( I do not ). I could write a whole list of these.
Verily, what I admire most about Stephano is his excelling, coming from such a background. How the situation was in Elky's time, I don't know. I would assume "e-sports" entailed a more mature and elitist community back then.
Can you link me to a source that says france has the best hourly labor productivity in the world? That is a very interesting statistic. I know back in 2007 it was Luxemburg but obviously things change :D.
I have no source but I have heard it as well.
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Mstephano: Yea i'm in korea
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The whole "more productive per hour thing" . . . you do realize that the first hour of work you do is the most "productive" because of diminishing marginal return, as in, every subsequent hour will yield slightly less work than the previous one.
The work that the French person does in his six hours of work is probably equivalent to the first six hours of work done by the Korean, let's say 60 units of work. However, for the next four hours, although the Korean will do less work per hour, say only 4 units of work compared to 10, his total ten hours of work will end up being far more work. All together, the Korean will accomplish 84 units of work over 10 hours compared to 60 units of work over 6 hours. Per hour, the French worker is productive, but that is precisely because he worked less.
This is a very basic explanation, but you get the idea.
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Oh mate, i am watching his stream now, he isnt just good.... he is the best
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On December 27 2011 07:57 ninjamyst wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 07:52 Khonsou wrote:On December 27 2011 07:24 Lore-Fighting wrote:
The biggest thing hindering Stephano is that he is French. Their culture/work ethic is real hinderance to being able to put in the dedication to being really good at this game. Is he the most talented? Maybe, but he will never develop it. The reason why Koreans is so good is their work ethic and culture, not anything to do with race. Man, I hope you didn't go out of your country even one time, because if it's the case, you surely missed something. Seems like you never been out of the country either. Different countries have different cultures and work ethnics. That's a fact. Europeans tend to have more vacation days and shorter work days. That's a fact. Asian tend to be more work focused and discipline focused. That's a fact. Whether Stephano being French makes him less of a player than a Korean...that's debatable. However, you can't deny that Korean work ethnics can be correlated to their dominance of the gamr.
Correlate, sure, but that doesn't mean anything.
Every single culture has positive and negative features. The moment a country does comparatively good, we focus on the good features, the moment it does bad we focus on the negative ones. The ideas you are referring to have been made for christianity (protestantism especially), to confucianism, to islam.
To name a few examples: Islam has been referred to as both being good for science and bad for it, while the actual principles never changed. Pre-industrialized European countries were all referred to as 'lazy' by foreign observers, the same held true for China/Korea/Taiwan up to recently.
The point is that succes creates culture more then a culture creates succes.
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Stephano isn't a really good player, he'll dissapear soon enough just watch him.
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On December 28 2011 09:19 Kyrillion wrote:Show nested quote +Stephano is NOT going to take part in gsl, doesn't want to.
And he is banking money to afford his medicine studies which are VERY expensive, and to avoid a loan or parttime job. Then he'll be able to concentrate 100% on his studies. A doctor here makes around 6k euros à month i believe, i'm sure he's aware of that. They're by no means very expensive. He's simply banking money because he likes banking it. And I'm afraid I have to agree on what has been said on France and French people. Albeit people's laziness is not the real problem but simply their attitude. French people (my people, sadly) are for the most part incapable of any seriouness and effort. When was the last time you heard a French progamer/other Starcraft-related person speak correct English ? Now compare it with the Swedes and Germans. Do you often see people greeting you in their mothertongue at the beginning of a game ? Do you ever lose against Frenchmen on the ladder ( I do not ). I could write a whole list of these. Verily, what I admire most about Stephano is his excelling, coming from such a background. How the situation was in Elky's time, I don't know. I would assume "e-sports" entailed a more mature and elitist community back then. Show nested quote +
Can you link me to a source that says france has the best hourly labor productivity in the world? That is a very interesting statistic. I know back in 2007 it was Luxemburg but obviously things change :D.
I have no source but I have heard it as well.
Fnactic TOD.
Now you can get out and keep your bs for yourself.
Ah and last thing
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=productivité travail 2011 france
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I think Stephano's a really good player because he wins a lot.
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How come this discussion about french people not being able to compete or something not moderated?
I think is the worst thread I ever come to read on TL ... Let's focus on the player guys, not the french stereotypes ...
Sad Face...
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
Shit, first he was just bad. Then it was all offline results. Then he was being figured out. Now its because he's french. So simple guys, Stephano is terrible, don't you understand?
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EPT
