EPTNaNiwa speaks out on CompLexity / Quantic move - Page 38
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pearlMoNsTeR
3 Posts
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hmsrenown
Canada1263 Posts
On December 12 2011 08:05 Hydroxyl wrote: Due to the way Complexity's contracts are written, he had no choice wether he agreed or not, and in what team he would end in. It would be only pure luck that he ended in a team he agreed himself to be in. That's the a real deal: do we want esport to have the players have their word in what team and environnement they work? What if Sase wasn't in QxG, or that QxG had not a partnership with Startale, but would end up buying Naniwa's contract nonetheless? Do contracts like the ones of Complexity have to leave all the rights to the structure and none to the players? Is it bright for the future of esport, or even what we want it to be? No, Lake isn't stupid enough to sell his contract somewhere Nani doesn't want to be in. Jason is smart enough to know if the bridge is burnt, it might bring much larger damage to CoL than departure of their top SC2 talent. | ||
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Hydroxyl
206 Posts
On December 12 2011 11:43 LuckoftheIrish wrote: If you have information share it. Otherwise, reading what you say isn't education. You can say your ass is made of ice cream but that don't make you a hot fudge sundae. If I said my ass is made of ice cream but you never seen my ass, how can you rather assure I'm not a hot fudge sundae than assure I am? That being said, it's not even like chances are 50/50 like in your example, since, even without an inside look into Complexity's contracts and the way they are handled, you can safely deduct yourself what I explained from the simple outside outcome of this situation and the confess Jason Lake himself on reddit. For instance, Jason Lake said he would sell Naniwa's contract to any team with or without Naniwa's approval, it was just a matter of time to find a team that accepted to buy it. Wether I have inside information on Naniwa's contract or not, like having read it, you can still affirm from Jason Lake's mere confession that Naniwa's contract - and it is not like it is the only time, as a matter of fact (see in the past), that's why you can go further than Naniwa's contract but talk about Complexity's contracts in general - that those contracts are written in such a way that Complexity has more weight and rights than Naniwa has about himself. It is not even an hypothesis waiting to be confirmed or invalidated, it is a fact confirmed by Jason Lake. That's why I am sorry but I have to dismiss your theory that if I don't give more informations that what is already present to the eyes of the community, what I expressed on the matter is not appropriate. | ||
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Hydroxyl
206 Posts
On December 12 2011 16:39 hmsrenown wrote: No, Lake isn't stupid enough to sell his contract somewhere Nani doesn't want to be in. Jason is smart enough to know if the bridge is burnt, it might bring much larger damage to CoL than departure of their top SC2 talent. I wouldn't speculate on the matter since it is pretty much hypothetical to think he would not do what he said himself on reddit. The only argument that stands your point is "Jason Lake is not stupid enough to damage CoL by doing this", but considering he created most of the flak against coL by his own comment on reddit, I wouldn't bet on it myself. | ||
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hmsrenown
Canada1263 Posts
On December 12 2011 17:22 Hydroxyl wrote: I wouldn't speculate on the matter since it is pretty much hypothetical to think he would not do what he said himself on reddit. The only argument that stands your point is "Jason Lake is not stupid enough to damage CoL by doing this", but considering he created most of the flak against coL by his own comment on reddit, I wouldn't bet on it myself. That's true...I just gave him the benefit of the doubt (if there is any) for his excellent managing in years past. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 12 2011 17:29 hmsrenown wrote: That's true...I just gave him the benefit of the doubt (if there is any) for his excellent managing in years past. Except his years of excellent management were in the game that he himself was passionate about, while Starcraft and Starcraft players are nothing more than a business venture for him. | ||
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Paladia
802 Posts
On December 12 2011 08:31 Ercster wrote: If Ret demanded a 200k salary, and TL said no, so Ret left, that would make it a failure on TL's part? Please stop posting. Nothing you have said has had any basic thought or logic put into it. It's not just one player that has left on good terms. All their high profile players have left the team. Stephano Naniwa Destiny Not to mention that their entire HoN team left as well (which was the best team in NA). And every single time Complexity has turned it into drama and publically bashed their former players, all this in a few months time. So yes, it is very obvious that there are serious issues within Complexity. The question is if anyone serious even wants to join Complexity anymore. | ||
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eauxlune
43 Posts
On December 12 2011 23:53 Paladia wrote: It's not just one player that has left on good terms. All their high profile players have left the team. Stephano Naniwa Destiny Not to mention that their entire HoN team left as well (which was the best team in NA). And every single time Complexity has turned it into drama and publically bashed their former players, all this in a few months time. So yes, it is very obvious that there are serious issues within Complexity. The question is if anyone serious even wants to join Complexity anymore. Wait.. What?... Destiny left because he didn't like that ROOT was merging into a large organization. I love the guy but he's not a "result oriented player" like you said. Not a result of complexity being a bad organization, just that Destiny didn't want to be a part of a big organization at the time. Was Stephano technically ever on the team? Maybe for a few hours? That's not about retention. Naniwa left on these terms, but its Nani. He's a controversial player who wants what he wants. This isn't the first team transfer involving him. You can't really think up much about this. Now with the fact that complexity hasn't picked up many players of big name and retained them recently is a strange occurrence, but the academy they have running is extremely legitimate. Goswser is definitely a player people have to look out for in the future. | ||
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coljbass
United States42 Posts
The fact is like the above said Destiny was a unique circumstance. At the time he did not want to be part of a "large organization" so we decided it was best for both of us if we not hold him to a contract he did not want. With Stephano, It is my belief we did everything right. We signed him, announced it and then found out by him going on a show that he was breaking our contract and re-signing with Millenium. That is hardly something we did but more that something happened to us. Not much we could have done differently. With Naniwa, I think all that needs to be said has been said. We wished we could have made it work but it was just a difficult situation that again left us very little choice in the matter as to what was best for our business going forward. We are actively looking to continue to add to our roster and continue to be one of the top Gaming organizations in the world. | ||
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Spec
Taiwan931 Posts
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Ercster
United States603 Posts
On December 12 2011 23:53 Paladia wrote: It's not just one player that has left on good terms. All their high profile players have left the team. Stephano Naniwa Destiny Not to mention that their entire HoN team left as well (which was the best team in NA). And every single time Complexity has turned it into drama and publically bashed their former players, all this in a few months time. So yes, it is very obvious that there are serious issues within Complexity. The question is if anyone serious even wants to join Complexity anymore. Destiny got kicked off of CoL because of the shit he says on his stream. Stephano was on two teams and decided to join the other team, Mil, because he wanted to be on a French team. Naniwa left because he thinks placing well at tournaments is more important than stream views, stream views, by the way, that continue to keep CoL in business because the sponsors are being shown to thousands of people. It shows that you know nothing about this and yet you continue to act as though you do. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On December 13 2011 05:48 Ercster wrote: Destiny got kicked off of CoL because of the shit he says on his stream. Stephano was on two teams and decided to join the other team, Mil, because he wanted to be on a French team. Naniwa left because he thinks placing well at tournaments is more important than stream views, stream views, by the way, that continue to keep CoL in business because the sponsors are being shown to thousands of people. It shows that you know nothing about this and yet you continue to act as though you do. Wait...Destiny was never on CoL. He jumped ship during the ROOT/CoL merger because he didn't want to be on the team. What on earth could he say on his stream (which attracts an obscene number of viewers) that would get him thrown off a team? | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On December 12 2011 08:05 Hydroxyl wrote: Due to the way Complexity's contracts are written, he had no choice wether he agreed or not, and in what team he would end in. It would be only pure luck that he ended in a team he agreed himself to be in. That's the a real deal: do we want esport to have the players have their word in what team and environnement they work? What if Sase wasn't in QxG, or that QxG had not a partnership with Startale, but would end up buying Naniwa's contract nonetheless? Do contracts like the ones of Complexity have to leave all the rights to the structure and none to the players? Is it bright for the future of esport, or even what we want it to be? I doubt you can have an employment contract where you reserve the right to sell your employee to someone else. | ||
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Paladia
802 Posts
On December 13 2011 01:20 coljbass wrote: I can't fault the logic that we have had some issues as of late. If you just look at the fact that we have lost high profile players without looking at the facts surrounding them then yes it looks very bad. We are actively looking to continue to add to our roster and continue to be one of the top Gaming organizations in the world. As I said I have nothing against complexity and wish you, just like all other esports teams, the best of luck. I think you bring a seriousness in some ways to the table that esports needs but you do it in the wrong way. As an example, does real companies sue each other or send legal threats? For sure, but it is something they avoid at (almost) all cost and they certainly don't tweet about it in public or create a drama around it. Overall, I get the feeling that your pursuit of being a "serious" business has made you very unsmooth to deal with, even for your own players to some degree. I'm also not sure why you create such drama each time a player leaves. Questioning Destiny's professionalism, calling Stephano "disrespectful" and "disheartening" together with even more bashing and drama. The current drama surrounding Naniwa (you even have complexity officials in this very thread questioning his mental state) and lets not even get into the whole HoN team issue. Why are you so keen on bashing former players and creating drama about it? Do you think players are more anxious to join Complexity when you throw them out to the wolves with a knife in the back if they leave? Do you think it is professional? Some people say that I have no idea what I am talking about and I couldn't even begin to imagine how things work within large organisations. However, I was the leader of the largest and most successful European WoW guild, I've been an esports writer for a very long time and have had the opportunity to lead some of the worlds most celebrated esports figures. I do know that there are a ton of internal conflicts in an organisation on all levels, it is unavoidable as people don't get along and want different things, especially in such a large organisation as WoW. However, it is the job of the management to manage it, that's why it is called management. At some points, it isn't possible and a player has to leave for what-ever reasons, sometimes due to an internal conflict. However, at no point in time did we ever hang out a former member or ever call him anything negative in public regardless of what we thought of him. That, out of respect of him, ourselves and his new endeavours. So while I wish you the best of luck, I will never understand why you bash former players in public and create drama around it. It is just unprofessional at all levels. | ||
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Regretful
Sweden91 Posts
That said i think NaNiWa will have a good time in the StarTale house. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
@SC2MVP (Team MVP official twitter): What a relief that Complexity transferred Naniwa to Quantic. We almost had to have that kind of player stay in our house for longer. The most disappointing game as an SC2 fan. | ||
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Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
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callthecops
United States24 Posts
On December 10 2011 09:09 Kfcnoob wrote: i c, complexity was all about maximizing their advertising, but didn't care about of how mediocre their players were(in nani's opinion) instead praising a more popular player, naniwa wanted to join a team that emphasized being a more talented player. so true what you say about coL.. i mean look at the HoN team they tried to put together, it was full of mediocre pub stars and got rolled by everyone | ||
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Paladia
802 Posts
Not sure if there is anything to say. Less qq, more pew pew, please. | ||
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Dexington
Canada7276 Posts
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