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Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 11 2011 10:40 iLikeRain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! So you basically shit on your friends in public with your statements? How very mature and kind of you.
On December 11 2011 10:08 coL.CatZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 08:32 Beakyboo wrote:
Seems to me that there's some irony to be found in CatZ's writing about Naniwa not being able to conduct himself appropriately in what is actually a massively inappropriate post in itself. It was kind of painful reading that. Seemed like he meant to be sincere but then proceeds to use his relationship with Naniwa to attack him on a way more personal level, right in the middle of a massive shit storm on a public forum. Really now? Show a little discretion. you're absolutely correct, I wasn't thinking clearly, and this wasn't really the place or time to voice my opinions on this.
Read the thread plz
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Seems absolutely fine to me. coL are a business, and like money of every form. NaNi is a player, and likes winning. Everyone's doing what everyone's gonna do, and it's just better for everyone for them to part ways.
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On December 11 2011 10:30 HerbalTylenol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 10:18 flagg wrote:On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! You consider Nani a friend and then shit all over him publicly? Maybe you could have kept this private just as you could have kept your girlfriend stripping private instead of streaming it? Whooooaaaa VODS?????
i think he mistaken Catz with Ret
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On December 11 2011 10:28 Jiddra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 10:18 flagg wrote:On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! You consider Nani a friend and then shit all over him publicly? Maybe you could have kept this private just as you could have kept your girlfriend stripping private instead of streaming it? Hey, gotta keep up those core values 
Pretty much if you consider that Catz insults other progammers like he did with Spanishiwa on stream or get it on with fans' girlfriends like at MLG Colombus.
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yo, stop with the player bashing, rofl.
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I feel Nani is a little bit of an out-spoken bm-machine, kind of like IdrA. I feel his concerns are legit, but still. I guess manners don't get you very far in SC2. He's got personality, that's for sure... but still.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
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On December 11 2011 04:42 HardMacro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
Whoa, I'm sorry for all the flame I've caused, that was not my intention. All I was trying to say is that whatever personal flaws Niniwa has, they should be kept secret by his friends and co-workers; there's not place for posting it on such a highly public forum.
I think if CatZ just said that "Niniwa sometimes can be difficult to work with, and he has had arguments with the team and the management in the past concerning player salaries. It's unfortunate that he has decided to leave the team, however I wish him best of luck in the future!", it would have been completely professional yet at the same time give a little insight into why Niniwa left the team. It was the detail, tone and liberal counts of pejorative descriptions of Niniwa that he wrote which I thought was over the line.
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On December 11 2011 07:24 Sethronu wrote:
I love how whenever a company / team / person writes something cautiously and keeps stuff to themselves to make sure their words can't be seen as 'bm' and 'negative' towards anyone, everyone goes 'I wish people were just honest and tell us exactly what happens!!', but whenever anyone does exactly that, they get raged at and the same damn people tell them to 'be more courteous' and shizzle. Unless of course the person in question is an 'accomplished' player, in which case it's okay for them to say and do anything they want because apparently winning in a tournament or two gives you a free pass to being a douche to anyone and automatically makes anything you say true and 100% correct.
Well coL didn't actually say what happend.
They just started being assholes, but didn't say what happend at all. So you sir obviously don't know what you are talking about.
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Naniwa has been KNOWN to be bm and difficult as hell. When he first signed with Dignitas, I think there was a part of the contract that was revealed that he had to stay mannered or else, something along those lines.
Anyway I have tremendous admiration and respect for Naniwa as a competitor/player. As a person, however, I think he is severely lacking social skills, thus immature and bm as hell.
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This is exactly what I like about Naniwa. All the play and never the advertising.
That's how a professional player's attitude should be. Not just about the money and hype.
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On December 11 2011 12:45 JaBrOnI wrote:
This is exactly what I like about Naniwa. All the play and never the advertising.
That's how a professional player's attitude should be. Not just about the money and hype.
Why can't they be about winning AND advertising? Plenty of players are great a both. Naniwa is only good at one.
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Say what you want about NaNi, at least he comes out and does the interview like a man and explains his reasons without hiding behind anyone or anything. Even if you don't respect his motivations, respect the fact that he has a pair and doesn't give us some flimsy excuse or bs about why he switched. That being said, good for NaNi- I'm glad he feels that tournament wins where he crushes through SEVERAL of the best players in the world means more than streaming and everyday exposure for a team. Proud NaNi fan, good luck in korea with ST and best of luck in Quantic!
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Naniwa fighting ~ !
One of the greatest overall Starcraft II players !
@On_Slaugh : Like what player ? The only good player (player that won tournaments) that I can think of is Idra, and the only reason he has so many viewers is because he's bad mannered most of the time.
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Conplexity handled this situation well. The confusion seem to arise from somewhere else, like people assuming something. I wish all parties luck, to Quantic, Complexity, and especially to Nani
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On December 11 2011 13:56 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 12:45 JaBrOnI wrote:
This is exactly what I like about Naniwa. All the play and never the advertising.
That's how a professional player's attitude should be. Not just about the money and hype. Why can't they be about winning AND advertising? Plenty of players are great a both. Naniwa is only good at one.
Why can't they just be about one? And the most important one too.
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On December 11 2011 10:40 iLikeRain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! So you basically shit on your friends in public with your statements? How very mature and kind of you.
I really didn't read his statement that way at all. I don't know about you, but I have a friend who seems like a complete dick but he's also a fantastic person once you get to know him. He knows it, I know it, and I've said that to other friends who were offended by his behavior. So, CatZ isn't shitting on Nani, he's only explaining that "Look, I know he can be a real douche sometimes but he's actually a really good guy."
Obviously it's buried in there a bit beneath also explaining the situation from his point of view, but that's what I got out of it (regarding his personal relation with naniwa). Then again, what I got out if it may not have been the intended message, but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and naively believe everyone has good intentions. Hopefully this is readable...I'm quite hungover still -_-.
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On December 11 2011 14:44 Madder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 13:56 On_Slaught wrote:On December 11 2011 12:45 JaBrOnI wrote:
This is exactly what I like about Naniwa. All the play and never the advertising.
That's how a professional player's attitude should be. Not just about the money and hype. Why can't they be about winning AND advertising? Plenty of players are great a both. Naniwa is only good at one. Why can't they just be about one? And the most important one too.
Because being about both is better then 1
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On December 11 2011 15:19 Mycl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 14:44 Madder wrote:On December 11 2011 13:56 On_Slaught wrote:On December 11 2011 12:45 JaBrOnI wrote:
This is exactly what I like about Naniwa. All the play and never the advertising.
That's how a professional player's attitude should be. Not just about the money and hype. Why can't they be about winning AND advertising? Plenty of players are great a both. Naniwa is only good at one. Why can't they just be about one? And the most important one too. Because being about both is better then 1
Assuming equal talent at both is wrong also. By having to put work into one area, that is time and effort potentially lost in the other. I do think one should try. But like Tyler's view from SotG, playing should take the higher priority.
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EPT
