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On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
This funny because Catz spent a good 5 minutes dissing viewers the last time I saw him cast (the IPL team match between Liquid and QIM).
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On December 11 2011 07:25 ninjamyst wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 07:11 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 11 2011 07:06 Mordiford wrote:On December 11 2011 07:01 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 11 2011 06:56 jnsjr wrote:On December 11 2011 06:48 Rubber wrote:
Why are so many people acting outraged about CatZ's post... the whole thing seemed pretty sincere and not BM at all. People don't want to hear the truth about their favorite player, and will rationalize away any sort of negative criticism, regardless if its been corroborated by multiple people, teams, and past public experiences. It seems pretty obvious that Catz wasn't trying to put down Naniwa, but rather give his honest assessment on the situation. Both him and merz have more inside knowledge and understanding of the situation, but rather than value their opinion, they have both just been unreasonably attacked. Oh well. Good luck with Quantic. I really hope that this is the environment you were looking for, and you can show us great games in 2012. I hope your amazing talent and dedication becomes the focus in 2012! Actually, it's mainly the fact that CoL feels the need to put him down at every opportunity... kind of makes them look dishonest. Why would they act like they have a grudge if they don't? So far I haven't seen him say anything negative about them at all, yet all I can hear from them is: "I like the guy, he's great, I hope he does well... btw fuck him, he's a POS and you all should know that he's a fucking asshole." Seems kind of stupid to me... but whatever. It started out with them attempted to correct misinformation. Naniwa mentioned additional factors such as money and priorities in his interview, which is what Catz responded to. Specifically the quote about Catz getting 5000 viewers being comparable to Naniwa's MLG finish. Catz also affirmed that Naniwa gets paid around three times as much as him and would likely get paid more if not for his attitude. All of this is relevant and a direct response to some of the stuff Naniwa said in his interview. It's not like Naniwa is coming in and saying, "Well, I'm really excited about being with Sase and look forward to performing in Code S-" and then Complexity just comes in and yells, "Naniwa is a asshole!". They're responding directly to what he's saying. Well... not quite. I read Nani's original statement, and it said nothing negative about coL at all. Then the coL guy comes out and basically says: We didn't give a shit about him, he was gone no matter what was good for him or not. We dumped him off on the first person we could find, which happens to be Quantic. Oh BTW, Good luck to him in the future! Which is pretty pathetic if you ask me. Dude would have gotten fired from an NFL team if he released a statement like that about a former player. I don't see why catz or coL can't just say: "Hey, we're sorry it couldn't work out; hope he does great in the future. BTW, we're sending (whoever) to Korea soon and we will always be on the lookout for new talent!" Would have been fine. But no, they had to play the pissing contest game with someone who it looks like isn't even taking a piss at them... Just seems really unprofessional to me. coL and catz are just responding to Naniwa's statement. Naniwa could have avoided all these drama if he just ignored the questions in the interview and not complain about how coL is ran. He started this so props to catZ for reminding us what kind of character Naniwa is.
I hardly think so actually. People would still rage and hate him, don't think it really matters.
And I don't really see how people can find catz post offensive, lol.
On December 11 2011 07:42 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! This funny because Catz spent a good 5 minutes dissing viewers the last time I saw him cast (the IPL team match between Liquid and QIM).
Wut? I watched that series and I have no memory of catz casting that? :S
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cant believe the people BMing Catz over his comments...and im a huge naniwa fan.
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A professional SC2 team is still a business. Complexity has the right to place a lot of value on publicity if they want to, and Naniwa has the right to make a change in his career if he wants to. If you don't enjoy watching Catz's stream because of his lack of accomplishments, then don't. If you don't care for Naniwa because of his attitude problems, don't support him.
I think the comment about Catz's stream was an error of judgement on Naniwa's part as far as proper PR goes but it's a little pointless and childish to start ranting about how CoL should focus more on the wins or about Naniwa's relationship with his coworkers because I don't think anyone here really knows and it's not really any of our business anyway.
The only thing I know for sure is that Naniwa's behaviour during tournaments is often less than classy and that's why I do not support him as a player. I feel like the rest is just speculation.
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On December 11 2011 07:42 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! This funny because Catz spent a good 5 minutes dissing viewers the last time I saw him cast (the IPL team match between Liquid and QIM).
LOL. coL.CatZPajamas.
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From Liquipedia:
NaNiwa faced a lot of personal problems during his Warcraft 3 career. He briefly touched upon this subject in an interview with Gravitas Gaming. NaNiwa explained how personal issues, including being kicked out of home and school, built up an anger inside of him which he took out against opposing players.[1][2] Because of this NaNiwa was accused of BM from time to time and frequently forced to switch teams.[3][4] These problems seemed to follow him into his StarCraft 2 career.
Basically exactly what Catz and others said, now stop making drama off something which was already known. It´s nothing new, just leave it be, you like Naniwa or you don´t. The fact remains he is a really good player.
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So many butthurt catzfans in here.
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On December 11 2011 08:20 NKsc2 wrote:
So many butthurt catzfans in here.
So many angry nani fans cant stand the truth about his hero.
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On December 11 2011 08:20 NKsc2 wrote:
So many butthurt catzfans in here.
you mean naniwa fans?
from what I've seen they're all blowing this way out of proportion
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On December 11 2011 08:20 NKsc2 wrote:
So many butthurt catzfans in here.
So much Swedish national pride in this thread.
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Seems to me that there's some irony to be found in CatZ's writing about Naniwa not being able to conduct himself appropriately in what is actually a massively inappropriate post in itself. It was kind of painful reading that. Seemed like he meant to be sincere but then proceeds to use his relationship with Naniwa to attack him on a way more personal level, right in the middle of a massive shit storm on a public forum. Really now? Show a little discretion.
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On December 11 2011 07:42 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! This funny because Catz spent a good 5 minutes dissing viewers the last time I saw him cast (the IPL team match between Liquid and QIM).
lol, this might be the best troll ever, but it seems that you are confusing Cats Pajamas and Complexity's Catz.
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Gotta love it, Catz and Naniwa can get along but their fans must fight a death match.
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On December 11 2011 08:25 monXikk wrote:So many angry nani fans cant stand the truth about his hero.
Truth=what catz says at all times?  so butthurt.
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Naniwa is a guy who has goals and pursues them. I can respect that and I don´t have to like his personality. He is an awesome player for very obvious reasons and I wish him the best of luck. Tone the bashing down, I don´t think he does deserve that much (maybe a little, but it seems way too much right now.).
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I don't really get all the drama in this topic. I mean, the whole situation really looks like a conflict of views/interests and was publicly stated as such, so what is this all about? Who told who they don't like the situation first? Does that really matter?
As for Naniwa, results and publicity: like it has been brought up in many posts here, being a professional athlete, whether at normal sports or e-sports, is not only about the results. The interaction between results and PR is not trivial here - you can have a lot of stuff forgiven if you're at the absolute top (see Mike Tyson here), you can be totally lacking results if you're a real celebrity (Anna Kournikova for the polar example), but most guys fall somewhere in between and basically, if you are not at the peak in one department, you have to have enough in the other for the situation to be managable.
It does seem like coL thought that with Naniwa, the balance between skills and PR was sufficient and that they quickly changed their opinion on that matter. Maybe with QxG it will be different - teams have differing team images and some want to be more "friendly", while some can accept more "bad publicity". Maybe it won't. Guess we'll all see in a few months.
As for what CatZ said, to people bashing him: you seem to be missing out on the key point to the rules of privacy, which is that it's only inadequate to comment publicly on someone's intimate/personal matters if they aren't public knowledge already. Contrast a situation of a known actor's friend saying "Yeah, he has to do something with his serious alcohol problem" when confronted with a) a situation of said actor being imprisoned for drunk driving and b) a situation of said actor being dropped from a movie cast without comments by the producer.
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On December 11 2011 08:34 theBizness wrote:
Gotta love it, Catz and Naniwa can get along but their fans must fight a death match.
Well its kind of like Flash/jaedong. Both of them are really good friends but the fans just want to kill each other lol :D. typical in probably every sport/esport in the world 
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On December 11 2011 08:25 monXikk wrote:So many angry nani fans cant stand the truth about his hero.
Pretty much this.
I can't believe so many people are BM towards CatZ. And here I thought that people could have a nice discussion without getting pissed by the truth. Silly me.
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Lol? Everything catz said is true and has never been a secret during naniwa's entire career. I can't believe how many naniwa fans are completely unaware to it if they truly were his fans. Surprise, guess we can never say the truth unless it puts players in the best light possible. I thought catz actually put it in a nice way.
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On December 11 2011 08:10 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 07:42 redviper wrote:On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! This funny because Catz spent a good 5 minutes dissing viewers the last time I saw him cast (the IPL team match between Liquid and QIM). LOL. coL.CatZPajamas.
Oh is that a different person altogether? In that case I apologize to Catz!
edit: Which is not to say that I don't find his post really passive aggressive and generally weird. And I don't even like Nani!
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EPT
