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On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully!
Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL.
You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it..
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Christ, TL is dramaville central.
Move on guys.
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On December 11 2011 04:51 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:00 Commentdire wrote:
I respect Naniwa.
The guy needs to get social coaching though. You can't market a player like Naniwa if you are aiming at a general audience. This exact philosophy among other things is why western esports has been a consistent failure for decades and why it's unsustainable past the initial bubble. Everyone who thinks anything built solely on marketing and exposure can last long term is being delusional.
Anyone who thinks anything built completely without exposure will last long-term is delusional. Just because we don't see all the media crap that Korean pros do doesn't mean they don't do it. Hell, Boxer just released an autobiography. They all have endorsements, they do commercials, it's all the same crap. Acting like you want eSports to completely opt out of that side of things is ridiculous. There's no pro gaming without money.
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On December 11 2011 04:54 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:52 HerbalTylenol wrote:On December 11 2011 04:44 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 11 2011 04:42 HardMacro wrote:On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future. Maybe the truth hurts? I think his point was that CatZ stirred the drama pot even more now : \ He seriously didn't need to write all that BM in there. The truth can't be BM. If Naniwa really is how Catz described him than Catz did nothing wrong, he just said the truth. And Catz had the right to defend his point of view. Show nested quote +I don't follow the BW scene that much, watch a few games now and then, but I'm kind of curious, what does a player like flash do in terms of marketing except being stupidly good? Yeah, but in Bw nobody did anything, so skill was the only way to make a difference. Now make a talk show about sc2 and you are more popular than no1.
I dont care about what the truth is you just dont write personaly shit about some one on a public forum is crossing the line.
What next we gonna out people if they homosexual and difficult to work with in a team house?
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On December 11 2011 04:57 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL. You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it..
you seem to live in this pretend world where we should all be nice and never say anything difficult or hard and just shove our heads in the sand and blindly accept everything people do without any sort of criticism whatsoever.
grow up.
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On December 11 2011 04:42 HardMacro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future.
You rewrote CatZ's message to make it sound really offensive and then got mad at him for being an asshole?
Sometimes the "sugar coating" you talk about is essential to what you want to convey.
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On December 11 2011 04:51 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:00 Commentdire wrote:
I respect Naniwa.
The guy needs to get social coaching though. You can't market a player like Naniwa if you are aiming at a general audience. This exact philosophy among other things is why western esports has been a consistent failure for decades and why it's unsustainable past the initial bubble. Everyone who thinks anything built solely on marketing and exposure can last long term is being delusional.
Did you read my post? Because that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying it's about a total package. Just like SirScoots describes it in the Youtube video I linked.
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Naniwa is being honest, that's a rare quality
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On December 11 2011 04:58 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:57 HappyChris wrote:On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL. You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it.. you seem to live in this pretend world where we should all be nice and never say anything difficult or hard and just shove our heads in the sand and blindly accept everything people do without any sort of criticism whatsoever. grow up.
You grow up. What about if someone knows all you personaly stuff about you problems in the world and post it on a public forum wtf. Its totally crossing the line
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On December 11 2011 04:58 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:54 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 11 2011 04:52 HerbalTylenol wrote:On December 11 2011 04:44 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 11 2011 04:42 HardMacro wrote:On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future. Maybe the truth hurts? I think his point was that CatZ stirred the drama pot even more now : \ He seriously didn't need to write all that BM in there. The truth can't be BM. If Naniwa really is how Catz described him than Catz did nothing wrong, he just said the truth. And Catz had the right to defend his point of view. I don't follow the BW scene that much, watch a few games now and then, but I'm kind of curious, what does a player like flash do in terms of marketing except being stupidly good? Yeah, but in Bw nobody did anything, so skill was the only way to make a difference. Now make a talk show about sc2 and you are more popular than no1. I dont care about what the truth is you just dont write personaly shit about some one on a public forum is crossing the line.
Some people will cry over anything when their favorite player is involved. We all can see that Naniwa really is how CatZ described him to be but if Catz sais it as it is we must burn him. Lol.
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On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
From what he said in the interview i don't think he was refering to salary when he compared the 2 of you.
Edit: I'm way to tired for this, just noticed u knew that already.
zzzzzzzz
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So Catz a D-class player get 1/3 of Naniwa a A-class player ( Among foreigners). Catz should either get a cut or naniwa a raise. In BW the B-teamers were lucky if they made 10th of the S class players and while Naniwa is no Flash or Bisu, Catz is without doubt worse than the worst B-teamer.
Also I fully agree with naniwa about the joke that is most foreign organizations ( especially EG and CoL). I mean results should be what matters not your exposure or stream viewers. if you get good enough results the exposure will come by itself
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On December 11 2011 04:58 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:54 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 11 2011 04:52 HerbalTylenol wrote:On December 11 2011 04:44 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 11 2011 04:42 HardMacro wrote:On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future. Maybe the truth hurts? I think his point was that CatZ stirred the drama pot even more now : \ He seriously didn't need to write all that BM in there. The truth can't be BM. If Naniwa really is how Catz described him than Catz did nothing wrong, he just said the truth. And Catz had the right to defend his point of view. I don't follow the BW scene that much, watch a few games now and then, but I'm kind of curious, what does a player like flash do in terms of marketing except being stupidly good? Yeah, but in Bw nobody did anything, so skill was the only way to make a difference. Now make a talk show about sc2 and you are more popular than no1. I dont care about what the truth is you just dont write personaly shit about some one on a public forum is crossing the line. What next we gonna out people if they homosexual and difficult to work with in a team house?
Well, some people do. Thus, what Catz wrote will be helpful for those people that do. And considering how many people got pissed because of an anonymous source, it seems like Catz saying to right out rather than through 3rd parties is better. Just because you don't care about the truth doesn't mean other people don't as well. And your perception of what should or should not be written on a public forum isn't the same as everyone else's.
Just something to keep in mind.
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i like what he did with his hair 
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On December 11 2011 05:01 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:58 HappyChris wrote:On December 11 2011 04:54 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 11 2011 04:52 HerbalTylenol wrote:On December 11 2011 04:44 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 11 2011 04:42 HardMacro wrote:On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future. Maybe the truth hurts? I think his point was that CatZ stirred the drama pot even more now : \ He seriously didn't need to write all that BM in there. The truth can't be BM. If Naniwa really is how Catz described him than Catz did nothing wrong, he just said the truth. And Catz had the right to defend his point of view. I don't follow the BW scene that much, watch a few games now and then, but I'm kind of curious, what does a player like flash do in terms of marketing except being stupidly good? Yeah, but in Bw nobody did anything, so skill was the only way to make a difference. Now make a talk show about sc2 and you are more popular than no1. I dont care about what the truth is you just dont write personaly shit about some one on a public forum is crossing the line. Some people will cry over anything when their favorite player is involved. We all can see that Naniwa really is how CatZ described him to be but if Catz sais it as it is we must burn him. Lol.
Favorite player? I dont like Naniwa at all but posting personally stuff about his mental state and his problems its just totally out of line.
How do you think Naniwa is feeling right now reading this shit?
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On December 11 2011 04:57 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL. You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it..
Catz didn't say anything wrong at all, wtf do you think friends shouldn't be entirely honest with you?
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On December 11 2011 05:00 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:58 Angel_ wrote:On December 11 2011 04:57 HappyChris wrote:On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL. You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it.. you seem to live in this pretend world where we should all be nice and never say anything difficult or hard and just shove our heads in the sand and blindly accept everything people do without any sort of criticism whatsoever. grow up. You grow up. What about if someone knows all you personaly stuff about you problems in the world and post it on a public forum wtf. Its totally crossing the line
Okay. For the last 25 pages people have been sitting praising naniwa for his honesty and truthfulness and all this other shit just because of what he said and his side all of a sudden is "the truth of the situation" because he said it.
You blindly accept it. You happily let him carry on doing whatever he wants however he wants no matter what the actual truth is. And then when that fantasy comes crashing down you call the person bringing you to reality harsh and mean and unprofessional and bm and dramatic...because they interupted your dream.
If i was acting like a stupid ass kid, yeah, i would HOPE someone would point it out to me. and i would hope that i would bother to listen.
and no, it's not crossing a line. if he went out of his way to just do it for no reason, yeah, it'd be totally innappropriate. but for the sake of bringing the last 25 pages of fanboy blindness and blatant stupidity a little bit of light and clarity?
no. it's really not. just like the post that's supposedly from the head of qxg pointing out that naniwa didnt approach them first (effectively calling naniwa a liar if you really want to look at it harshly) is.
again. grow. up.
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I wonder what all the Naniwa fans will say when he leaves Quantic on bad grounds? It's not like he joined these other teams on terrible terms. They all start well and then... well you know.
How does naniwa have more cred than a prof organization and other, less BM, progamers like Catz? Because you like him he must be right? I don't have any real opinion on the guy (he is a good player), but based on what we know about him he is far from "presumed innocent." Rather, it should be the opposite.
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On December 11 2011 05:04 trucane wrote:
So Catz a D-class player get 1/3 of Naniwa a A-class player ( Among foreigners). Catz should either get a cut or naniwa a raise. In BW the B-teamers were lucky if they made 10th of the S class players and while Naniwa is no Flash or Bisu, Catz is without doubt worse than the worst B-teamer.
Also I fully agree with naniwa about the joke that is most foreign organizations ( especially EG and CoL). I mean results should be what matters not your exposure or stream viewers. if you get good enough results the exposure will come by itself
Did you even read the thread?
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On December 11 2011 05:04 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 04:57 HappyChris wrote:On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL. You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it.. Catz didn't say anything wrong at all, wtf do you think friends shouldn't be entirely honest with you?
Not on a fucking public forum he could have emailed him this shit. Wtf is wrong with you people. Shall i buy a detective and find out everything about you. You can find dirt on everyone posting it on a public forum is just mean
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EPT
