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On December 11 2011 05:04 trucane wrote:
So Catz a D-class player get 1/3 of Naniwa a A-class player ( Among foreigners). Catz should either get a cut or naniwa a raise. In BW the B-teamers were lucky if they made 10th of the S class players and while Naniwa is no Flash or Bisu, Catz is without doubt worse than the worst B-teamer.
Also I fully agree with naniwa about the joke that is most foreign organizations ( especially EG and CoL). I mean results should be what matters not your exposure or stream viewers. if you get good enough results the exposure will come by itself
There's no need to shit on Catz. Catz himself admitted that Naniwa could be making a lot more money than he is now, so I don't know why you need to be writing it that way. And results are not the only thing that matters, especially in a small, vulnerable industry like the eSports one. Boxer didn't become who he is just purely through results. He marketed himself.
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Not on a fucking public forum he could have emailed him this shit
The only reason Catz posted here is to say his opinion to the public forum, not to Naniwa. He wanted to transmit us his honest feelings about the matter. I for one can handle the truth, you sir can't. Grow up!
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Switzerland2892 Posts
People are really trying to find drama wherever they can
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On December 11 2011 05:07 flowSthead wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 05:04 trucane wrote:
So Catz a D-class player get 1/3 of Naniwa a A-class player ( Among foreigners). Catz should either get a cut or naniwa a raise. In BW the B-teamers were lucky if they made 10th of the S class players and while Naniwa is no Flash or Bisu, Catz is without doubt worse than the worst B-teamer.
Also I fully agree with naniwa about the joke that is most foreign organizations ( especially EG and CoL). I mean results should be what matters not your exposure or stream viewers. if you get good enough results the exposure will come by itself There's no need to shit on Catz. Catz himself admitted that Naniwa could be making a lot more money than he is now, so I don't know why you need to be writing it that way. And results are not the only thing that matters, especially in a small, vulnerable industry like the eSports one. Boxer didn't become who he is just purely through results. He marketed himself.
actually, his results were the marketing
just like it would be with people like naniwa if non-korean teams stopped trying to push t-shirts and streaming over getting good
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The only reason Catz posted here is to say his opinion to the public forum, not to Naniwa. He wanted to transmit us his honest feelings about the matter. I for one can handle the truth, you sir can't. Grow up!
It's not a question about what's true and what's not, it's about whether it's socially appropriate to post stuff like this on a public forum. Remember, Catz himself mentioned how sometimes being totally honest isn't the best choice from a social relations point of view.
Whether it's appropriate in this case is something that - I'd hope - only Catz can judge based on his relationships with Naniwa and given the circumstances.
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I thank Col.Catz for posting his opinion. It was what I thought even before he posted, but a direct confirmation helps.
Again, yet again, Naniwa doesn't really know how to act maturely (even in this interview). I said it last time when Col published stupid interview with him where he BMs pretty much every respected pro player he mentions (NesTea got the worst review obv). Even back then, I was shocked how he was indifferent, and almost uncomplimentary to the MVP guys, DRG in particular, while being a part of Col.MVP collaboration.
What does he do now? He now openly comments about MVP. And even Col themselves. The irony is that Col seemed to encourage his petulance with that interview, now they are the receiving end of an interview from a guy who could hardly be called a professional even if he worked at McDonalds.
There's absolutely no doubt that he will be "let go" from Quantic Gaming, and he will have things to say about StarTale and QIM. No doubt. And we will see this CEO of QIM appear here and offer his viewpoint, in the same shoes as Col guys are doing right now. I am amazed that all these QIM's and Col's don't have a person to go tell Naniwa to be more professional in his time with their team, interviews included. As a clause in a contract. Oh well, this will bite in their ass soon.
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On December 11 2011 05:07 flowSthead wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 05:04 trucane wrote:
So Catz a D-class player get 1/3 of Naniwa a A-class player ( Among foreigners). Catz should either get a cut or naniwa a raise. In BW the B-teamers were lucky if they made 10th of the S class players and while Naniwa is no Flash or Bisu, Catz is without doubt worse than the worst B-teamer.
Also I fully agree with naniwa about the joke that is most foreign organizations ( especially EG and CoL). I mean results should be what matters not your exposure or stream viewers. if you get good enough results the exposure will come by itself There's no need to shit on Catz. Catz himself admitted that Naniwa could be making a lot more money than he is now, so I don't know why you need to be writing it that way. And results are not the only thing that matters, especially in a small, vulnerable industry like the eSports one. Boxer didn't become who he is just purely through results. He marketed himself.
It's quite a huge difference to get good results and then market yourself than somehow trying to do it the other way. No other game has ever had players trying to market themselves before being at the absolute top so this is one of the reasons why the SC2 is quite the joke right now.
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On December 11 2011 05:04 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 05:01 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 11 2011 04:58 HappyChris wrote:On December 11 2011 04:54 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 11 2011 04:52 HerbalTylenol wrote:On December 11 2011 04:44 ceaRshaf wrote:On December 11 2011 04:42 HardMacro wrote:On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! You're a cool guy CatZ but was your post really necessary? The overall tone of your poorly written stub aside, essentially you're pretty much blatantly stating that Niniwa is an immature, arrogant, insecure, picky, offensive, stubborn "little kid" "who didn't learn most of those [social norms] things [as a kid]", who's incapable of translating his good intentions into actions and of changing himself?That seems WAY out of line to me, no matter how much you feebly attempt to sugar coat it with a few meager positive qualities and feigned friendliness. If you really were a friend of Niniwa you wouldn't not have posted in the way you did; so don't lie (or, what a great friend you are, posting what you did about a friend on Teamliquid). My opinion of you as a person just sky dived quite a bit, I wish you appropriate karma for all your actions in the the future. Maybe the truth hurts? I think his point was that CatZ stirred the drama pot even more now : \ He seriously didn't need to write all that BM in there. The truth can't be BM. If Naniwa really is how Catz described him than Catz did nothing wrong, he just said the truth. And Catz had the right to defend his point of view. I don't follow the BW scene that much, watch a few games now and then, but I'm kind of curious, what does a player like flash do in terms of marketing except being stupidly good? Yeah, but in Bw nobody did anything, so skill was the only way to make a difference. Now make a talk show about sc2 and you are more popular than no1. I dont care about what the truth is you just dont write personaly shit about some one on a public forum is crossing the line. Some people will cry over anything when their favorite player is involved. We all can see that Naniwa really is how CatZ described him to be but if Catz sais it as it is we must burn him. Lol. Favorite player? I dont like Naniwa at all but posting personally stuff about his mental state and his problems its just totally out of line. How do you think Naniwa is feeling right now reading this shit?
He would just say, "It's okay", and then he would don his armor and sword, and FUS RO DAH at Nestea's Roaches. NORDIWA!
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On December 11 2011 05:14 trucane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 05:07 flowSthead wrote:On December 11 2011 05:04 trucane wrote:
So Catz a D-class player get 1/3 of Naniwa a A-class player ( Among foreigners). Catz should either get a cut or naniwa a raise. In BW the B-teamers were lucky if they made 10th of the S class players and while Naniwa is no Flash or Bisu, Catz is without doubt worse than the worst B-teamer.
Also I fully agree with naniwa about the joke that is most foreign organizations ( especially EG and CoL). I mean results should be what matters not your exposure or stream viewers. if you get good enough results the exposure will come by itself There's no need to shit on Catz. Catz himself admitted that Naniwa could be making a lot more money than he is now, so I don't know why you need to be writing it that way. And results are not the only thing that matters, especially in a small, vulnerable industry like the eSports one. Boxer didn't become who he is just purely through results. He marketed himself. It's quite a huge difference to get good results and then market yourself than somehow trying to do it the other way. No other game has ever had players trying to market themselves before being at the absolute top so this is one of the reasons why the SC2 is quite the joke right now.
But the fans (we) are to blame for that, you do realize that right? If we stopped watching Destinys stream when someone better is streaming things would be different. But we feed on drama and paparazzi. Lame. For instance now Destiny has 4.8k and Bomber 1,8.
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On December 11 2011 05:06 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 05:04 ReignFayth wrote:On December 11 2011 04:57 HappyChris wrote:On December 11 2011 04:24 coL.CatZ wrote:
oh wow didn't really take a look at this thread until now, first of all, I feel like people are way misguided here, Naniwa made 3 times as much as I do as far as salary goes, so no, obviously we're not the same. I don't know why Naniwa chose to use me as an example, but what he stated is simply false, and I doubt he was referring to salary. ofc they don't care the same way if he wins a big event than if i have a bunch of viewers on my stream.
I will tell you one more thing, I make 1/3 of what Naniwa makes in salary, but if Naniwa learned to behave, he'd make at least 6 times as much, unfortunately, he's been burning bridges since he started playing this game, and even before that, so no one will offer him the salary he deserves based off of the skill he has as a player, and as sad as it is, he knows that.
I consider Johan a friend and wish him the best of luck in QxG, truth is he has been trying to change for a long time, he has been trying to clear his PR a bit, he tries to bm less, gg more, be less rude in general, but his personality is what it is. He is picky, he is arrogant, he is many things that make him a difficult human being to work with, he is quick to be a smartass and be offensive at times, but he is also quickest to get offended. He as we all are, is a human with a lot of flaws. He is also a very honest person, and most of the time has tons of good intentions, but translating these into actions is hard for him. you know how as little kids everyone says w/e they want and do w/e they want and there's little to no repercussions, but then as you grow up you learn 'oh shit, that was the wrong way to approach this or that' or 'maybe i shouldn't say that' or 'trying to explain this will just cause more confusion', you know, like when a Jehovah's witness knocks on your door you don't tell them 'fuck off, you're wrong about everything you're saying' you're polite about it, then go back inside and rant 'it was just those annoying people trying to sell me their god again' well naniwa didn't learn most of those things, so he's stuck in the phase where he is incredibly hard to deal with. He's not a bad person, and once you get to know him and try to understand him a bit better, he's actually pretty cool, so, Johan, best of luck to you, I hope you find a home in QxG where you're at last comfortable and best of luck to QxG, please be patient and treat carefully! Cats you should not have got involved in this. I respect you alot but this is personaly stuff. You basically calling him a spoiled, social misfit child. Its harsh and it got no place on TL. You defiantly not his friend Catz no matter how much you sugar coat it.. Catz didn't say anything wrong at all, wtf do you think friends shouldn't be entirely honest with you? Not on a fucking public forum he could have emailed him this shit. Wtf is wrong with you people. Shall i buy a detective and find out everything about you. You can find dirt on everyone posting it on a public forum is just mean
it has everything to do with the current situation so I don't see anything wrong with it, you have to be waaaaaaaaay insecure to actually care about shit like that, he didn't commit any crime, all catz is saying is pretty much that naniwa is hard to work with cuz his social skills are.. well not really that good
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catz' post was a lot nicer than it had to be. not sure why people are upset by it.
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On December 11 2011 05:06 On_Slaught wrote:
I wonder what all the Naniwa fans will say when he leaves Quantic on bad grounds? It's not like he joined these other teams on terrible terms. They all start well and then... well you know.
So what was wrong with his stay in dignitas throughout an entire year :o? I will support Naniwa regardless of if he leaves 500 teams. I'm a fan of Naniwa because he strives to be the very best, and is willing to sacrifice everything to get there. If that means team hopping between every single sc2 team, so be it, he still has my support.
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On December 10 2011 09:10 cmen15 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 09:09 shabby wrote:
Whatever floats his boat, really. If this is better for him in his quest to become the best, then it's the right choice. yea agree with you on that, he got to do what he feels will give him the best chance of winning.
...And as long as it comports with (his) contracts.
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Germany25657 Posts
Drama is awesome. Now it will surely get mentioned on State of the Game, which will create more drama in that thread, which will create funny posts to read.
Please continue.
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Listen guys seriously. Why all the arguing? Both parts got exactly what they wanted, naniwa got to leave and Col got to see him leave. Its a win win situation so who cares about who made the first move or whatever, in the end it doesnt matter just say glhf to both parts and be done.
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On December 11 2011 05:33 Sneakyz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 05:06 On_Slaught wrote:
I wonder what all the Naniwa fans will say when he leaves Quantic on bad grounds? It's not like he joined these other teams on terrible terms. They all start well and then... well you know.
So what was wrong with his stay in dignitas throughout an entire year :o? I will support Naniwa regardless of if he leaves 500 teams. I'm a fan of Naniwa because he strives to be the very best, and is willing to sacrifice everything to get there. If that means team hopping between every single sc2 team, so be it, he still has my support.
When Dignitas stated they weren't going to renew Naniwa's contract, Odee didn't seem like he was particularly pleased with Naniwa's stay with them. He has a history of being difficult to work with and his departure from Dignitas, while better than some of his previous departures, still had a little negativity around it.
I'm not trying to take a colossal dump on Naniwa here, but it's been pretty thoroughly established that he's a difficult person to work with and his team history(including Dignitas, though better than some previous departures) confirms this. It's fine to be a fan of the guy, but when he gets removed from a team or leaves I honestly can't turn around and place the fault on the team simply because of Naniwa's terrible reputation. I don't see this as being unfair at all because this is a reputation that Naniwa himself established through a series of bad decisions, something he himself has to correct or just continue on with if he doesn't give a fuck.
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We all know that he was BM in his past, however it is clearly visible that he has changed. To anybody who says MLG, I suggest to watch his 2nd video from MLG where he explains everything. Besides I really do not care in which team he is and how he got there, because as long as he keeps playing I am happy.
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He's an athlete not a spokesperson. Obviously you get frustrated, obviously you make dumb moves. That's why you have a team. Complexity was a shitty team as they didn't help Naniwa where he needed help.
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NaNiwa got what he wanted.
Col made their deal with Quantic and got what they wanted.
Quantic got NaNiwa, which is what they wanted.
= Everyone got what they want ON GOOD TERMS. No need to theorycraft anymore.
NaNiwa fighting :D!
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Nani seems so skinny since moving to Korea
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EPT
