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Russian Federation4295 Posts
We all know, that SC2 requires a lot more clicks to hold muta-stack, than in SC1. Less clicking makes muta-stack more spreaded and less effective.
But I found a way to hold it better, by using Shift-command.
Screen 1:
Standart muta-stack - more you click, the more effective muta stack.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7IgRbl.jpg)
Screen 2:
By clicking less, mutastack loses it effectiveness.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ovPhhl.jpg)
Screenshot 3:
But with using Shift-command, mutalisks will not spreaded and muta stack will be effective, same as it was at the start. But sometimes some mutalisks will fly away from main group, especially with route with sharp corners, where some mutalisks 90% will fly at some distance from main group.
It's a bit random factor, but 90% mutastack saves and holds with ways, like on screenshots under this text.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JKYJql.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/S02sfl.jpg)
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Why would you queue commands for muta micro? That kind of defeats the purpose. You need to control their movement on the fly in order to harass effectively with it. You can't really snipe HTs or kill probes while taking minimal damage if you are queuing move commands
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Spam right click? I don't really see why you'd shift either. Can you give an example?
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Why would you queue commands for muta micro?
With queuing mutalisks will not fly in difference ways, ruining muta-stack. It allows to less micro with mutastack and saves some your APM
Spam right click? I don't really see why you'd shift either. Can you give an example?
You can test it in game. Without using Shift and then with shift, in second case mutalisks will hold muta-stack better.
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i can see how this could be effective at times, like when u find yourself in a tight spot trying to fly past turrets with a bit of a squeeze cuz theres no more room, it could have some uses but not many, still nice find. could this be used with phonix aswell, could be effective vs muta
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oh man, i cant help but imagine a thor volley out of the black mist hitting that thang...
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This helps Mutalisks avoid the range of cannons and turrets when in large numbers, possibly preventing you from losing some unnecessary hits. This actually seems like a good trick, and I would certainly try it on ladder if I played Zerg.
Edit: Also, when fighting against Stalkers and Marines, clumping to this degree will prevent the player from focusing weakened Mutalisks, perhaps keeping even more alive. This means the player now has an additional consideration when microing Mutas: do I keep them clumped up, or do I magic box them and keep them spread out?
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
like when u find yourself in a tight spot trying to fly past turrets with a bit of a squeeze cuz theres no more room, it could have some uses but not many, still nice find
It can save some your APM. Instead mass-right-clicking you can click sometimes and they will not spread in difference ways.
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Canada13389 Posts
While i think it is inefficient for micro which is super important for mutas this might be a first step towards something where someone sees something else here. Like if this were a first step in microing the mutas and another command or certain action would be used after this.
For example shift queue the muta movement between two small movement points at a time? idk someone who plays zerg would need to play with it but its possible there is a fruit here that has yet to ripen.
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I don't think that this is any more effective then spamming right click. If you mess up you could run right into a Thor shot or worse. I think it's best to stick to the traditional micro in this case. I'm glad you brought this up though. Twas interesting.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 07 2011 22:34 TheLOLas wrote:
I don't think that this is any more effective then spamming right click. If you mess up you could run right into a Thor shot or worse. I think it's best to stick to the traditional micro in this case. I'm glad you brought this up though. Twas interesting.
Sometimes it saves your APM and allows for noobs make that muta-stack easier
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Let's steer away from this as a noob-friendly technique and explore how it may be used more effectively.
My main question to OP:
How far apart can the shift move command be for this to be effective? That will really change how this technique is useful.
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Huh, I guess when you are flying in, you can shift queue them for movement and then start spam clicking to attack.
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Or when flying out, you can make your escape route in the border of the map and go macro earlier than if you had to do it manually.
That can be risky (thor volley), but it's still interesting to know.
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I don't see why this is receiving the criticism it is. No, it's not a technique you would use that often, but it's still a technique that has potential merit in the right situation, eg dodging around turrets with less APM than would usually be required.
Obviously you still want to be babysitting your mutalisks to keep them safe, but this technique means that, in some situations, instead of spam clicking I can perhaps fit in a more macro than I would normally.
Good find.
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Germany2238 Posts
On December 07 2011 23:26 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Huh, I guess when you are flying in, you can shift queue them for movement and then start spam clicking to attack.
yeah i think this is one ting this method is good for but i dont know how useful it is to use in a real match
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Doesn't make the mutalisks to lose speed? I would asumme that they would slow down at every waypoint making the mutalisk slower. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that is a huge minus to this type of stacking.
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I usually stack up when I want to pick off tanks or medivacs. It just helps to avoid "catching the attention" of the AI of marines.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 07 2011 23:49 JackDragon wrote:
Doesn't make the mutalisks to lose speed? I would asumme that they would slow down at every waypoint making the mutalisk slower. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that is a huge minus to this type of stacking.
They don't slow down at every point, only if they will be need to rotate in totally different way, like 180 degree or 45 degree
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Or you can include an overlord from way in the upper corner of your base in your control group so when you need to stack it will and when you don't it won't....
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Canada13389 Posts
On December 08 2011 00:10 las91 wrote:
Or you can include an overlord from way in the upper corner of your base in your control group so when you need to stack it will and when you don't it won't....
This doesn't work in starcraft 2 the same way it did in BW O_O unless you are trolling
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shift click muta stacking with a hotkey for cancel would be pretty boss. I mean, it would take an extra 20-50 apm to do, but how awesome would it be to see July-esque muta micro in SC2?
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I hope more zergs do this..
In the meantime I'll be making high templars and archons more often :D
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The whole point of muta stacking is to be as clumped up as possible while attacking, and this trick does not help to do that.
But it may be helpful in certain cituations when you need to escape between turrets or enemy units, that way your mutas will move with normal speed being clumped up.
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I think this works because the 1 muta that sticks out makes the magic box bigger so each waypoint is inside the magic box when the muta stack arrives doing less disrupiton of the stack.
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Canada13389 Posts
On December 08 2011 00:36 Alpina wrote:
The whole point of muta stacking is to be as clumped up as possible while attacking, and this trick does not help to do that.
But it may be helpful in certain cituations when you need to escape between turrets or enemy units, that way your mutas will more with normal speed being clumped up.
Yeah it provides another level of depth with regards to infiltrating bases, one day an amazing player will find that small 2x2 spot to sneak by.
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Muta micro is muta micro. More click and be ready or Shift control like you and get pwned by Thors
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Canada13389 Posts
On December 08 2011 00:39 Keyboard Warrior wrote:
Muta micro is muta micro. More click and be ready or Shift control like you and get pwned by Thors
He isn't proposing you shift click and move your screen away. You can shift click to get through missile turrets for example and watch them and spread them if thors are nearby. Its a way to get somewhere with minimal damage if there is no AoE nearby its a nice trick to use to punish opponents I think thats all to be honest.
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To further my previous post, and thinking more about it, I can see this being a great way to easier enter/leave a base through a gap in turrets/cannons/spores without taking damage (or minimising damage). I can't think of any further use for this trick, but that alone is enough to be a great find. I'll be testing this myself when I get the chance.
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Does it still work in a small distance going backwards and forwards instead of in a line? That would be a lot more useful. But in that case, couldn't you simply use patrol a la the viking flower?
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On December 08 2011 01:05 XenoX101 wrote:
Does it still work in a small distance going backwards and forwards instead of in a line? That would be a lot more useful. But in that case, couldn't you simply use patrol a la the viking flower?
Why would you ever need that? Mutas are no vikings, they don't need that.
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If you have to click that many shift queues in order to keep them stacked (and i know you have to, because i tried exactly the same thing when i tried to make them attack without losing their stack), it kinda defeats the purpose of "saving apm".
You cant shift queue longer distances because they will spread just like normally, and if you stack them with shifting that close to each other, you dont actually save that much apm and you have a worse muta stack anyways.
You have much better control over your mutas if you just manually stack them in order to bypass static defense.
Actually, if there is no static defense (or mobile defense for that matter) its better to not stack them at all when attacking scvs, because if you attack with a stacked group of mutas they completely overkill scvs thus wasting like 90% of the damage.
If you attack a base with 20 spreaded mutas you can clear out the entire scv line in a matter of seconds, but if you stack those mutas, sometimes they will just kill a single scv with a volley.
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On December 07 2011 22:25 bugabinga wrote:
oh man, i cant help but imagine a thor volley out of the black mist hitting that thang...
Yeah, all of us Zergs have that same nightmare.
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On December 08 2011 01:07 gh0un wrote:
If you have to click that many shift queues in order to keep them stacked (and i know you have to, because i tried exactly the same thing when i tried to make them attack without losing their stack), it kinda defeats the purpose of "saving apm".
You cant shift queue longer distances because they will spread just like normally, and if you stack them with shifting that close to each other, you dont actually save that much apm and you have a worse muta stack anyways.
You have much better control over your mutas if you just manually stack them in order to bypass static defense.
Actually, if there is no static defense (or mobile defense for that matter) its better to not stack them at all when attacking scvs, because if you attack with a stacked group of mutas they completely overkill scvs thus wasting like 90% of the damage.
If you attack a base with 20 spreaded mutas you can clear out the entire scv line in a matter of seconds, but if you stack those mutas, sometimes they will just kill a single scv with a volley.
Using this trick muta speed is pretty much the same as if you would be just flying, but if you manually stacking them and flying your speed will be very low.
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I have a couple of questions...can you queue move command, attack, patrol, or hold commands or any combination while keeping the stack?
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My single thor approves this message!!
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MorroW does this I'm pretty sure. Then again, he shift clicks virtually everything he can...
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What custom map is this again? I have a friend who desperately needs micro help and finding a good custom map for her to mess around in has been troublesome.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 08 2011 02:18 SpaceYeti wrote:
What custom map is this again? I have a friend who desperately needs micro help and finding a good custom map for her to mess around in has been troublesome.
[Official] Unit tester online
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EPT
