EPTHeart Of The Swarm: The Pro's Opinions - Page 8
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Enchanted
United States1609 Posts
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On December 03 2011 18:45 Sawamura wrote: Both of these post talks about the time factor , well I will play along with you , Broodwar was released in the year 1998 and recently SC2 has been released in the year 2009 , How long has the development and game design has been taken place ? Roughly 10 years , one would have think from the experience of a good developer they would have been able to make a successor as worthy of it's predecessor . Common argument against broodwar , Bad AI , Unbearable Graphics, Very easy but hard to master macro and micro mechanics than again if the Bad AI has been really that bad , shouldn't stork or bisu be smashing their keyboard on the desk every time their dragoon freezes in their attempt to destroy a tank line ? I really don't see what the Bad AI has anything to do with what I was saying. What I was saying was simply that sc2 players are still a loooong way off from reaching the skill ceiling.There may be design flaws, but the game is still hard to master. Easy to learn hard to master | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On December 03 2011 18:54 happyness wrote: I really don't see what the Bad AI has anything to do with what I was saying. What I was saying was simply that sc2 players are still a loooong way off from reaching the skill ceiling.There may be design flaws, but the game is still hard to master. Easy to learn hard to master Same can be said for broodwar , We do not know how far is the skill ceiling in yellow's prime he thought it was the fastest way to play and no one can go faster than him and player likes jaedong and Flash who are rising stars , who are essentially playing the same game and yet plays much more faster than the older generation of pro gamers . So where is the skill ceiling for broodwar ? | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
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Eluadyl
Turkey364 Posts
GSL code S finals rendered this thread invalid. I can't believe I'm saying this. | ||
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Phelix
1931 Posts
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On December 03 2011 18:57 Sawamura wrote: Same can be said for broodwar , We do not know how far is the skill ceiling in yellow's prime he thought it was the fastest way to play and no one can go faster than him and player likes jaedong and Flash who are rising stars , who are essentially playing the same game and yet plays much more faster than the older generation of pro gamers . So where is the skill ceiling for broodwar ? It hasn't been reached yet either. I really don't see what you are getting at. I never said BW is a bad game or that SC2 is better. I just find the "BW is better than SC2 because it is more difficult" argument silly. You could argue other reasons for BW being better, but not because SC2 is too easy. | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
On December 03 2011 18:50 Megatronn wrote: The game is just over 1 year old, relax guys BW is still like 10 years older. Don't be impatient, it'll get to where everyone wants it to be in time. Will it though? What I personally find to be frustrating is a player like Naniwa being capable of beating Nestea and MVP. No disrespect intended towards Naniwa, but it's annoying that in a straight up match without preparation the difference between the best two players in the world and someone who can't get past the first round of the Code A is only that small. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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Joseph123
Bulgaria1144 Posts
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nvrs
Greece481 Posts
On December 03 2011 19:12 Eluadyl wrote: + Show Spoiler + GSL code S finals rendered this thread invalid. I can't believe I'm saying this. So true dude! | ||
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selaas
Norway40 Posts
On December 03 2011 19:02 Talin wrote: Cloud is spot on, at least someone is there to say it like it is. Not sure if he is. First off, as mentioned, this game has been out for 1 and a half year + beta. Second, he's the only one raging about it. Even from shows like SotG and ItG I didn't hear these points. The game hasn't been figured out yet, so its premature to whine about imbalance. I think it's just a nerd rage and hardly think its this black/white. Sure, he has a high level experience of the game, but he's not in the top, where people compensate losing to these lucky things by practicing more. A lot of the problems in this game can still be fixed with decent maps, which was one of the main factors in BW during the years of really small patch changes. | ||
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nvrs
Greece481 Posts
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
On December 03 2011 18:50 Megatronn wrote: The game is just over 1 year old, relax guys BW is still like 10 years older. Don't be impatient, it'll get to where everyone wants it to be in time. The problem is that people here have long memories and know their history. If Dustin Browder truly did come from games like Dawn of War and the Command and Conquer series - and bringing that type of game and trying to mix everything together, the end result is no longer a SC game as we know it. The prevailing thought is that the magic behind BW is just not powering SC2. It feels and plays like a completely different game from BW, sort of a hybrid between Warcraft 3...and something else. So if you take that mindset into consideration...I can see why people are upset. Anyways my view on "this game is too easy" line of thought. It is definitely too easy - until you try beating someone your equal or better. Then it's frustrating and difficult as hell. What are my chances of defeating a masters player and above? Probably nil, no matter what I do. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 03 2011 19:26 selaas wrote: Not sure if he is. First off, as mentioned, this game has been out for 1 and a half year + beta. Second, he's the only one raging about it. Even from shows like SotG and ItG I didn't hear these points. The game hasn't been figured out yet, so its premature to whine about imbalance. I think it's just a nerd rage and hardly think its this black/white. Sure, he has a high level experience of the game, but he's not in the top, where people compensate losing to these lucky things by practicing more. A lot of the problems in this game can still be fixed with decent maps, which was one of the main factors in BW during the years of really small patch changes. It doesn't matter. The concept is wrong and the ideas is wrong. It's simply straying away from the classic RTS genre. You can't fix that with maps. They would have to give up on every single announced HoTS change for that game to be Starcraft in more than just the name. HoTS units have no place in Starcraft. | ||
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
On December 03 2011 20:05 Talin wrote: It doesn't matter. The concept is wrong and the ideas is wrong. It's simply straying away from the classic RTS genre. You can't fix that with maps. They would have to give up on every single announced HoTS change for that game to be Starcraft in more than just the name. HoTS units have no place in Starcraft. What changes would you say would fix the game? Or would you have more confidence in the SC2 BW custom map that's under development? | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 03 2011 20:08 D_K_night wrote: What changes would you say would fix the game? Or would you have more confidence in the SC2 BW custom map that's under development? I think the game is as good as it's going to get now without any changes (in terms of new units). It's not ideal, but at this point it still resembles Starcraft enough and it works fine. | ||
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shockaslim
United States1104 Posts
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ALPINA
3791 Posts
On December 03 2011 19:02 Talin wrote: Cloud is spot on, at least someone is there to say it like it is. if blizzard could release game and balance it nearly perfectly after a year I think it won't be a big problem to balance 8 new units. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 03 2011 20:15 Alpina wrote: if blizzard could release game and balance it nearly perfectly after a year I think it won't be a big problem to balance 8 new units. The problem is that the new units are just not Starcraft units. They have weird spells and special abilities that are just going to create problems and push the game even more in the unit composition / timing / strategy direction, rather than the execution direction. Core of RTS gameplay should be in SIMPLE units that just walk and shoot. HoTS completely deviates from that norm. | ||
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