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Origine
France167 Posts
On December 03 2011 22:08 StuartLove wrote: cloud speaks about abusing and making decnt results? issent he the one who plays terra? did you even read what he said? he mentionned terrans units as well as zerg/protoss units being ez to use and stuff.. stop QQing about terran being op this is bs "dude watch GSL, only terran winning so OP" right smartass | ||
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thezanursic
5492 Posts
On December 03 2011 07:12 VanGarde wrote: No offense to Cloud but it is getting silly how all of the mid tier foreign players are the ones who whine that the game is too random and the skill cap is too low so there is no point in competing. Unless you are beating mvp or nestea in gsl finals arguments like that are completely irrelevant when it comes to actually competing in the game. Seriously stop using how "flawed the game is" to explain away a lack of results. These kinds of comments always only come from the players who play seriously but who are never seen in the top of tournaments. I think the majority of people agree that the game is pretty balanced at the moment, but that doesn't change the fact that PvP is a coin flip... | ||
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MichaelJLowell
United States610 Posts
Step 2: Refuse to give up StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty and play StarCraft: Brood War or Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne in their fantastic multiplayer modes, or even go back and boot up Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness and Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos and their incredible single-player modes. (At the same time, the players who do nothing but complain about Wings of Liberty will be appalled at my suggestion that Warcraft II is a superior game.) Instead, players will line up on the first day and purchase Heart of the Swarm. Professional players will continue to criticize the game but play it anyway, refusing to publicly state the only reason they play the game is because it is their source of revenue, since that would be bad for business. Much like wrestling fans who complain about the decline of that business and Simpsons fans who complain the show hasn't been relevant in a decade (but watch it anyway), the StarCraft II player base as a whole will continue to play the game despite the presence of superior real-time strategy games on the market and nearly fifty years of video games to fall back on. Instead, they will use their wallet and cast a vote of confidence in the lack of confidence they have with Blizzard Entertainment's game products. Step 3: Battered wife syndrome at its finest. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
The Zerg and Protoss units for HOTS are again, casters like units. The colossus is also a big problem IMO. If any unit deserves to became a "noob" only one of a kind a-move unit this is the one. Thanks for the interviews! | ||
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elKaDor
Sweden376 Posts
On December 03 2011 21:40 Chytilova wrote: So I'm a competitive BW noob, but did people never cheese in BW? The "better" player always won? I'm not getting this luck argument. Every sport has luck. I feel like we should just talk about specific balance or design issues(like some people in this theard are), not meaningless generalities like luck-based. The "best" team doesn't always win. Do you guys not watch sports? People who know BW can tear me apart now. people cheesed in bw, but if they didn't kill someone with the cheese they lost 95% of the games. In sc2 its np due to mule, reactor, larva inject, cronoboost, wg etc | ||
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Origine
France167 Posts
On December 03 2011 22:51 Sapphire.lux wrote: I agree with Cloud. I've said since BETA that there is to much focus on caster units that are super strong and easy to use. The Zerg and Protoss units for HOTS are again, casters like units. The colossus is also a big problem IMO. If any unit deserves to became a "noob" only one of a kind a-move unit this is the one. Thanks for the interviews! I'd say the zealot rather than the colossus, easy to do, easy to use. In BW u actually needed to micro your zealots so that they dont instantly die to 2 spiders mines. Micro... EDIT: missread, my bad :> | ||
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Deckkie
Netherlands1595 Posts
Since sc2 came out people have been talking about how the game should be and so many opinions are just striking with each other. So let me tell you this, the game wont ever become precisely the way you want it. Maybe focus a little on the stuff that you do like about the game. As example, I dont like the warhound. It looks like a unit that you can hardly micro and it takes away Terrans only 300/200 unit in the game. But there will be a large group that loves it because they think it looks like a Goliath. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On December 03 2011 22:54 Origine wrote: I'd say the zealot rather than the colossus, easy to do, easy to use. In BW u actually needed to micro your zealots so that they dont instantly die to 2 spiders mines. Micro... Talking about HOTS, the battle Hellion should fix the "a move Zealot vs non stop kiting" relation. | ||
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gruff
Sweden2276 Posts
On December 03 2011 22:54 elKaDor wrote: people cheesed in bw, but if they didn't kill someone with the cheese they lost 95% of the games. In sc2 its np due to mule, reactor, larva inject, cronoboost, wg etc By that logic it would be best to cheese every game. No problem right? | ||
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Scribble
2077 Posts
Solve your problems. Spread your units. Stop complaining. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5647 Posts
On December 03 2011 22:30 Zarahtra wrote:I personally think it would be stupid for blizzard to start limiting the AI though. They just need to remove these stupid ass abilities and units such as ff, colossi, rauder, FG's snare(and perhaps nerf both BL's broodlings and viking's range), All make the game a lot more one dimensional. Also maybe redesign storm and aoe, so storm does same dmg(perhaps larger radius) over longer time and emp does similar. That way a terran army might be able to micro against the storm(rather than guess where the storms will be layed and send your units where you *think* the toss won't place them) and for terran he might be able to fight even though the toss got storms off. Similarly a toss doesn't auto loose if terran gets emps down on the temps and the toss army. + Show Spoiler + I also have a lot of grievances with feedback, which isn't broken, but it just limits terran's options so much and is kind of used to balance the amount of options terran has compared to the few options toss has. I'd rather give toss more options... How about making Ghost's EMP like Disc Thrower's grenade from Tiberian Sun? It would bounce on the ground up to 3 times, each time releasing an EMP shockwave, although weaker with each succession. The ability would have 3 cast ranges, sort of: (a) close range - allowing for 3 shockwaves, (b) mid range - allowing for 2 shockwaves (the two weaker ones), and (c) long range - allowing for only 1 shockwave (the weakest one). The EMP grenades would bounce in a linear fashion, like Hellion's or Lurker's attack and they'd be projectiles, meaning you could either position your units is a way that reduces the EMP's effect or dodge the spell entirely. On top of that, in order to get the most out of their ability, Ghosts would have to fire their grenades at close range, which would require Cloak use, otherwise risking losing the Ghosts. What do you think? ;p On December 03 2011 23:16 Scribble wrote: There's a weird cycle here, where people complain about AoE, complain about a low skill ceiling, but refuse to spread their units during battles...which addresses both of those complaints. AoE in BW was a lot more scary than in SC2, the difference is that things didn't clump up as much before so you had less stuff getting hit by much stronger AoE. Solve your problems. Spread your units. Stop complaining. You can't keep your units spread while they move, though, can you? | ||
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MenSol[ZerO]
Canada1134 Posts
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On December 03 2011 23:16 Scribble wrote: There's a weird cycle here, where people complain about AoE, complain about a low skill ceiling, but refuse to spread their units during battles...which addresses both of those complaints. AoE in BW was a lot more scary than in SC2, the difference is that things didn't clump up as much before so you had less stuff getting hit by much stronger AoE. Solve your problems. Spread your units. Stop complaining. You had to individually select casters to use the spells. There was no FG, ConcG, FF bs that limited unit movement. Strong AOE units needed a lot of skill to be used (this made Terran hard to play, reaver drops difficult, etc). Because all this things are easy to do in SC2, good players can loose to bad ones very easy. They are adding more casters in HOTS... The ball of death vs ball of death and "who can spam spells faster" is more WC3 the SC imo. | ||
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1904 Posts
In fact I agree with both Cloud and White-Ra. The expansion will be fun because the units are gimmicky and you can fool around with them and experiment. But in the long run when the units don't feel fresh anymore it will make it even worse. I was hoping the expansion would change the blob versus blob fights but in the TL interview Browder didn't really see the problem and said they won't make the AI 'worse'. I mean wtf marine blobs are rubbing their shoulders with each other and are going into a battle clumped together thinking they are spartans, zealots don't mind having the legs of a gigantic robot trambling on their heads...I looks really bad and it plays even worse. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On December 03 2011 07:29 aTnClouD wrote: Sc2 is already bad enough with all those aoe super powerful no brainer easy to use units (ghost, templar, colo, infestor). Let's add more spellcasting bs on the field so the game gets... worse. This is my opinion and I'm not being a crybaby. If you don't like it don't assume I'm just whining randomly. I'm not blaming my "lack of results" (?!?results that anyway most people who play sc2 all day would love to have) on a bad game since I know it was obviously due to the fact I never liked SC2 for the reasons I stated before so I was never able to enjoy and practice as much as many other tournament winning players. Even if the game is super gamblish and bad players can win against good ones it doesn't mean the very best players in the world are not able to put the results they deserve (and they can still lose to incomparably worse players - watch mlg orlando). Thing is they are gonna add stuff in hots that will probably be sick hard to balance with everything else already and I really wonder if there is any way for units like the oracle or the shredder to not fuck up totally the game. Don't get me wrong, I obviously hope I am just pessimistic and it won't be like this, still it looks pretty grim to me. edit: and dont call me mid tier foreign player, cause i'm not. thanks. I don't get it. Plague, emp, storm and reaver were in bw. And afaik, they're were much more powerful and super cool. But now they're gimmicky ? And it's my birthdayyyyyyyyyyyyyy yeahhhhh | ||
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getSome[703]
United States753 Posts
White-Ra: I'm waiting for it because I can make more special tactics here | ||
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IGotPlayguuu
Italy660 Posts
On December 04 2011 00:30 Erasme wrote: I don't get it. Plague, emp, storm and reaver were in bw. And afaik, they're were much more powerful and super cool. But now they're gimmicky ? And it's my birthdayyyyyyyyyyyyyy yeahhhhh You know, in BW carpet storm wasn't just 1 t click... | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On December 04 2011 00:30 Erasme wrote: I don't get it. Plague, emp, storm and reaver were in bw. And afaik, they're were much more powerful and super cool. But now they're gimmicky ? And it's my birthdayyyyyyyyyyyyyy yeahhhhh "afaik" .. thats the problematic part reavers were powerful but its super hard to handle them, they are slow as fuck and therefore useless for attacking unless coupled with a shuttle, so it takes a lot of micro to do damage with them while making sure they wont get sniped. Colossus on the other hand: easy 1 a auto damage. EMP wasnt anywhere near as strong as in sc2, it was mainly used for its Mana-draining against arbiters (protoss flying caster) rather than its damage output (since in bw there werent 100 units in one small spot), and obviously science vessels werent as massable as ghosts. Plague is very powerful but you can only get it very late in the game (esp. compared to stuff like sc2 EMP and fungal), and there was no smart casting and defilers die very fast to irradiate. Storm is also very powerful in BW but you have to protect your HTs like theyre your babies or else you die.. and again, no smartcasting. Just as an explanation, I dont really agree with clouds pessimistic view of the game. happy birthday ^^ People should be able to discuss this without the bashing and behaving like dicks though, its not too hard. | ||
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elKaDor
Sweden376 Posts
On December 03 2011 23:15 gruff wrote: By that logic it would be best to cheese every game. No problem right? if u know bw then u know what im talking about, if ur cheese fails, it should be GG, but it isn't GG in sc2. and i dont have to explain because if u dont understand then u shouldnt even be infront of an computer | ||
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