On November 30 2011 21:14 Jakkerr wrote: I enjoyed season2 way more. When I see 2 koreans playing I couldn't care less who wins, there is no storyline for me. But with 'foreigners' it's far more enjoyable too watch, and tbh the level of foreigners is getting really close to korea. Such tournaments only help to improve that because the players can get more motivated. They can fight koreans at the other 5milllion lans out there.
edit: Well I guess the chances of Puma or Hero winning are still pretty damn high ^^
Storyline? Oh there is a storyline for you watching say Sen vs Naniwa? All because they are non korean huh?
On November 30 2011 21:14 Jakkerr wrote: I enjoyed season2 way more. When I see 2 koreans playing I couldn't care less who wins, there is no storyline for me. But with 'foreigners' it's far more enjoyable too watch, and tbh the level of foreigners is getting really close to korea. Such tournaments only help to improve that because the players can get more motivated. They can fight koreans at the other 5milllion lans out there.
edit: Well I guess the chances of Puma or Hero winning are still pretty damn high ^^
Storyline? Oh there is a storyline for you watching say Sen vs Naniwa? All because they are non korean huh?
what a dumb statement.
Gap is really close now you say? not even close.
After examining the statistics and evidence that you supplied with your compelling, elaborate argument, I am forced to agree, obviously.
On November 30 2011 21:14 Jakkerr wrote: I enjoyed season2 way more. When I see 2 koreans playing I couldn't care less who wins, there is no storyline for me. But with 'foreigners' it's far more enjoyable too watch, and tbh the level of foreigners is getting really close to korea. Such tournaments only help to improve that because the players can get more motivated. They can fight koreans at the other 5milllion lans out there.
edit: Well I guess the chances of Puma or Hero winning are still pretty damn high ^^
Storyline? Oh there is a storyline for you watching say Sen vs Naniwa? All because they are non korean huh?
what a dumb statement.
Gap is really close now you say? not even close.
After examining the statistics and evidence that you supplied with your compelling, elaborate argument, I am forced to agree, obviously.
what statistic would i need to provide for my statement? exacty none.
He said it's more enjoyable watching 2 non koreans play simply because they are non koreans.
that makes alot of sense huh?
Yea I'll take watching say puma vs hero anyday over two much lesser skilled non korean players.
I don't need statistic to say the gap isn't closing. Look at the results all around. Look at last MLG, look at last dreamhack.
Yea sure some foreigners have won some tournaments this past month, that's inevitable, but that doesn't mean the gap is closing and those foreigners that can take games away from koreans are very very few. Only a handful.
On November 30 2011 21:14 Jakkerr wrote: I enjoyed season2 way more. When I see 2 koreans playing I couldn't care less who wins, there is no storyline for me. But with 'foreigners' it's far more enjoyable too watch, and tbh the level of foreigners is getting really close to korea. Such tournaments only help to improve that because the players can get more motivated. They can fight koreans at the other 5milllion lans out there.
edit: Well I guess the chances of Puma or Hero winning are still pretty damn high ^^
Storyline? Oh there is a storyline for you watching say Sen vs Naniwa? All because they are non korean huh?
what a dumb statement.
Gap is really close now you say? not even close.
After examining the statistics and evidence that you supplied with your compelling, elaborate argument, I am forced to agree, obviously.
what statistic would i need to provide for my statement? exacty none.
He said it's more enjoyable watching 2 non koreans play simply because they are non koreans.
that makes alot of sense huh?
Yea I'll take watching say puma vs hero anyday over two much lesser skilled non korean players.
I don't need statistic to say the gap isn't closing. Look at the results all around. Look at last MLG, look at last dreamhack.
Yea sure some foreigners have won some tournaments this past month, that's inevitable, but that doesn't mean the gap is closing and those foreigners that can take games away from koreans are very very few. Only a handful.
And aside from Stephano almost all (or all?) of them got good by training lots of time in Korea. I agree with you, although i don't mind watching foreigners sometimes and although i didn't watch any of the NASL season i probably will watch the finals if i find the time.
Whats your point? What the hell does EG have to do with NASL?
You don't know what your talking about, you cant base all these accusations off such little data. Do you know how many tournaments you bomb before you are successful? Do you know how hard it is when every single opponent is very feared by everyone.
Personally I'm glad the Koreans are gone, I'd enjoy watching some foreigners play. I already see the Kor's play enough as it is.
a lot of the people in the second season of the NASL are there because they performed well in the first season, if the players that did badly in the first season were in the second season instead I would think that the win rates would be going up.
Just wondering if you've ever taken a statistics course and if you have, how could you come to a conclusion like this? You basically just said people who returned from season 1 did worse in season 2, therefore the field is stronger in season 2. Maybe the players from season 1 just got weaker? Can you expand on your conclusion so it doesn't seem as ridiculous?
Just because EG's "lower tier" isn't doing well, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's *because of* the team house. It just means that their lower tier isn't very good. Dress a monkey in a suit and its still a monkey.
I think it's difficult to deny that both Idra and Demuslim have posted *much* better results after moving into the teamhouse. I'm a big Demuslim fan so I watch his stream a ton, and it's actually quite shocking how much his play has dropped off after being just a month away from the house. And with all the flying around Huk does, I'm sure having a home base in NA is very helpful.
A team house is not going to turn an Axslav or an Incontrol into a tournament winner. But it is going to turn already talented players such as Idra, Huk, Puma, and Demuslim into potential tournament winners.
On November 30 2011 21:14 Jakkerr wrote: I enjoyed season2 way more. When I see 2 koreans playing I couldn't care less who wins, there is no storyline for me. But with 'foreigners' it's far more enjoyable too watch, and tbh the level of foreigners is getting really close to korea. Such tournaments only help to improve that because the players can get more motivated. They can fight koreans at the other 5milllion lans out there.
edit: Well I guess the chances of Puma or Hero winning are still pretty damn high ^^
Storyline? Oh there is a storyline for you watching say Sen vs Naniwa? All because they are non korean huh?
what a dumb statement.
Gap is really close now you say? not even close.
After examining the statistics and evidence that you supplied with your compelling, elaborate argument, I am forced to agree, obviously.
what statistic would i need to provide for my statement? exacty none.
He said it's more enjoyable watching 2 non koreans play simply because they are non koreans.
that makes alot of sense huh?
Yea I'll take watching say puma vs hero anyday over two much lesser skilled non korean players.
I don't need statistic to say the gap isn't closing. Look at the results all around. Look at last MLG, look at last dreamhack.
Yea sure some foreigners have won some tournaments this past month, that's inevitable, but that doesn't mean the gap is closing and those foreigners that can take games away from koreans are very very few. Only a handful.
And aside from Stephano almost all (or all?) of them got good by training lots of time in Korea. I agree with you, although i don't mind watching foreigners sometimes and although i didn't watch any of the NASL season i probably will watch the finals if i find the time.
don't get me wrong, I love watching non foreigners play if they are good. like say Sen or naniwa etc
my problem with his statement was that he said 2 koreans playing has no drama....
what does that even mean? So if I watch incontrol vs qxc, there's some inherent drama apparently because they are not korean
Most Koreans had lag when they played, so it makes sense that returning players had a worse win% as they aren't playing people with a significant handicap. I don't think you can think much past this.
On November 30 2011 21:14 Jakkerr wrote: I enjoyed season2 way more. When I see 2 koreans playing I couldn't care less who wins, there is no storyline for me. But with 'foreigners' it's far more enjoyable too watch, and tbh the level of foreigners is getting really close to korea. Such tournaments only help to improve that because the players can get more motivated. They can fight koreans at the other 5milllion lans out there.
edit: Well I guess the chances of Puma or Hero winning are still pretty damn high ^^
Storyline? Oh there is a storyline for you watching say Sen vs Naniwa? All because they are non korean huh?
what a dumb statement.
Gap is really close now you say? not even close.
After examining the statistics and evidence that you supplied with your compelling, elaborate argument, I am forced to agree, obviously.
what statistic would i need to provide for my statement? exacty none.
He said it's more enjoyable watching 2 non koreans play simply because they are non koreans.
that makes alot of sense huh?
Yea I'll take watching say puma vs hero anyday over two much lesser skilled non korean players.
I don't need statistic to say the gap isn't closing. Look at the results all around. Look at last MLG, look at last dreamhack.
Yea sure some foreigners have won some tournaments this past month, that's inevitable, but that doesn't mean the gap is closing and those foreigners that can take games away from koreans are very very few. Only a handful.
And aside from Stephano almost all (or all?) of them got good by training lots of time in Korea. I agree with you, although i don't mind watching foreigners sometimes and although i didn't watch any of the NASL season i probably will watch the finals if i find the time.
don't get me wrong, I love watching non foreigners play if they are good. like say Sen or naniwa etc
my problem with his statement was that he said 2 koreans playing has no drama....
what does that even mean? So if I watch incontrol vs qxc, there's some inherent drama apparently because they are not korean
I also have a problem with his statement. Clearly this guy has never seen any MVP vs Nestea matches. A big rivalry is brewing between them even though they're on the same team. The only foreign "drama" I know about is between Idra and Cruncher, but what else is there? I personally think Koreans have more of a storyline because they've pretty much given up everything to be a progamer and most of them have immense pressure to win. I have yet to see a foreigner cry after winning/losing a big match. I've seen tons of Koreans do it
Pretty sick final list, forgot nasl even existed after the whole korean drama pre-season. Hopefully the finals go over well and we get some great games out f it.
On November 30 2011 21:14 Jakkerr wrote: I enjoyed season2 way more. When I see 2 koreans playing I couldn't care less who wins, there is no storyline for me. But with 'foreigners' it's far more enjoyable too watch, and tbh the level of foreigners is getting really close to korea. Such tournaments only help to improve that because the players can get more motivated. They can fight koreans at the other 5milllion lans out there.
edit: Well I guess the chances of Puma or Hero winning are still pretty damn high ^^
Storyline? Oh there is a storyline for you watching say Sen vs Naniwa? All because they are non korean huh?
what a dumb statement.
Gap is really close now you say? not even close.
After examining the statistics and evidence that you supplied with your compelling, elaborate argument, I am forced to agree, obviously.
what statistic would i need to provide for my statement? exacty none.
He said it's more enjoyable watching 2 non koreans play simply because they are non koreans.
that makes alot of sense huh?
Yea I'll take watching say puma vs hero anyday over two much lesser skilled non korean players.
I don't need statistic to say the gap isn't closing. Look at the results all around. Look at last MLG, look at last dreamhack.
Yea sure some foreigners have won some tournaments this past month, that's inevitable, but that doesn't mean the gap is closing and those foreigners that can take games away from koreans are very very few. Only a handful.
And aside from Stephano almost all (or all?) of them got good by training lots of time in Korea. I agree with you, although i don't mind watching foreigners sometimes and although i didn't watch any of the NASL season i probably will watch the finals if i find the time.
don't get me wrong, I love watching non foreigners play if they are good. like say Sen or naniwa etc
my problem with his statement was that he said 2 koreans playing has no drama....
what does that even mean? So if I watch incontrol vs qxc, there's some inherent drama apparently because they are not korean
I also have a problem with his statement. Clearly this guy has never seen any MVP vs Nestea matches. A big rivalry is brewing between them even though they're on the same team. The only foreign "drama" I know about is between Idra and Cruncher, but what else is there? I personally think Koreans have more of a storyline because they've pretty much given up everything to be a progamer and most of them have immense pressure to win. I have yet to see a foreigner cry after winning/losing a big match. I've seen tons of Koreans do it
Some people obviously watch SC2 based on the skin color of the players playing. I don't see why you guys keep giving these people the time of day and replying to them.
I watched a lot of season 1 due to the koreans, but watched none of season 2 apart from a few hero games. Don't plan to watch the finals either except for hero's games. I really don't know how NASL is making money or getting any return on this with the low stream numbers, the huge expense they put into the finals event and the large prize pool.
On December 01 2011 02:38 awu25 wrote: Just wondering if you've ever taken a statistics course and if you have, how could you come to a conclusion like this? You basically just said people who returned from season 1 did worse in season 2, therefore the field is stronger in season 2. Maybe the players from season 1 just got weaker? Can you expand on your conclusion so it doesn't seem as ridiculous?
He just didn't take into account that the bottom of the field from Season 1 was removed. If you replayed Season 1 with the players on that list plus the Koreans/Naniwa/Huk/Demuslim, the records of those players on those list obviously trend downwards.
I can't comment on all of the players that participated in season 1 and 2 of NASL as I only watch the Zerg games but your stats assume that the players who participated in both seasons stayed as good or got better than they were in season 1 which after watching many of the NASL VODS does not appear to be the case. If you watch the Idra vods in season 2 and then watch the Idra vods in season 1 it would appear Idra has gotten worse at the game in between seasons. His games vs Socke were horrible in season 2 I had to turn them off they were that bad especially because I know he can play so much better. The same goes for Sheth, Sen and Ret. There overall game play was a lot more solid season one than in season two. Remember season 1 when Sen played Mana? Mana pushed out with a decent sized deathball which looked like it would crush sen but with great positioning and micro sen crushed the Mana with one of the most amazing surrounds I've ever seen a Zerg pull off yet in season 2 we see nothing quite as amazing out of Sen. It's as if a lot of the top contenders in season 1 were playing a lot worse in season 2.
Imagine if all of a sudden marineking was horrible at stutter stepping with marines everyone would be like WTF?! Well that's how I feel when I watch NASL season 2 zergs play from the previous performance in season 1.
On November 30 2011 21:14 Jakkerr wrote: I enjoyed season2 way more. When I see 2 koreans playing I couldn't care less who wins, there is no storyline for me. But with 'foreigners' it's far more enjoyable too watch, and tbh the level of foreigners is getting really close to korea. Such tournaments only help to improve that because the players can get more motivated. They can fight koreans at the other 5milllion lans out there.
edit: Well I guess the chances of Puma or Hero winning are still pretty damn high ^^
Storyline? Oh there is a storyline for you watching say Sen vs Naniwa? All because they are non korean huh?
what a dumb statement.
Gap is really close now you say? not even close.
After examining the statistics and evidence that you supplied with your compelling, elaborate argument, I am forced to agree, obviously.
what statistic would i need to provide for my statement? exacty none.
He said it's more enjoyable watching 2 non koreans play simply because they are non koreans.
that makes alot of sense huh?
Yea I'll take watching say puma vs hero anyday over two much lesser skilled non korean players.
I don't need statistic to say the gap isn't closing. Look at the results all around. Look at last MLG, look at last dreamhack.
Yea sure some foreigners have won some tournaments this past month, that's inevitable, but that doesn't mean the gap is closing and those foreigners that can take games away from koreans are very very few. Only a handful.
And aside from Stephano almost all (or all?) of them got good by training lots of time in Korea. I agree with you, although i don't mind watching foreigners sometimes and although i didn't watch any of the NASL season i probably will watch the finals if i find the time.
don't get me wrong, I love watching non foreigners play if they are good. like say Sen or naniwa etc
my problem with his statement was that he said 2 koreans playing has no drama....
what does that even mean? So if I watch incontrol vs qxc, there's some inherent drama apparently because they are not korean
I also have a problem with his statement. Clearly this guy has never seen any MVP vs Nestea matches. A big rivalry is brewing between them even though they're on the same team. The only foreign "drama" I know about is between Idra and Cruncher, but what else is there? I personally think Koreans have more of a storyline because they've pretty much given up everything to be a progamer and most of them have immense pressure to win. I have yet to see a foreigner cry after winning/losing a big match. I've seen tons of Koreans do it
Some people obviously watch SC2 based on the skin color of the players playing. I don't see why you guys keep giving these people the time of day and replying to them.
You don't have to be a racist to prefer watching foreigners play over Koreans.
On November 30 2011 21:14 Jakkerr wrote: I enjoyed season2 way more. When I see 2 koreans playing I couldn't care less who wins, there is no storyline for me. But with 'foreigners' it's far more enjoyable too watch, and tbh the level of foreigners is getting really close to korea. Such tournaments only help to improve that because the players can get more motivated. They can fight koreans at the other 5milllion lans out there.
edit: Well I guess the chances of Puma or Hero winning are still pretty damn high ^^
Storyline? Oh there is a storyline for you watching say Sen vs Naniwa? All because they are non korean huh?
what a dumb statement.
Gap is really close now you say? not even close.
After examining the statistics and evidence that you supplied with your compelling, elaborate argument, I am forced to agree, obviously.
what statistic would i need to provide for my statement? exacty none.
He said it's more enjoyable watching 2 non koreans play simply because they are non koreans.
that makes alot of sense huh?
Yea I'll take watching say puma vs hero anyday over two much lesser skilled non korean players.
I don't need statistic to say the gap isn't closing. Look at the results all around. Look at last MLG, look at last dreamhack.
Yea sure some foreigners have won some tournaments this past month, that's inevitable, but that doesn't mean the gap is closing and those foreigners that can take games away from koreans are very very few. Only a handful.
And aside from Stephano almost all (or all?) of them got good by training lots of time in Korea. I agree with you, although i don't mind watching foreigners sometimes and although i didn't watch any of the NASL season i probably will watch the finals if i find the time.
don't get me wrong, I love watching non foreigners play if they are good. like say Sen or naniwa etc
my problem with his statement was that he said 2 koreans playing has no drama....
what does that even mean? So if I watch incontrol vs qxc, there's some inherent drama apparently because they are not korean
I also have a problem with his statement. Clearly this guy has never seen any MVP vs Nestea matches. A big rivalry is brewing between them even though they're on the same team. The only foreign "drama" I know about is between Idra and Cruncher, but what else is there? I personally think Koreans have more of a storyline because they've pretty much given up everything to be a progamer and most of them have immense pressure to win. I have yet to see a foreigner cry after winning/losing a big match. I've seen tons of Koreans do it
Some people obviously watch SC2 based on the skin color of the players playing. I don't see why you guys keep giving these people the time of day and replying to them.
You don't have to be a racist to prefer watching foreigners play over Koreans.
Well its in the same direction tough, just not the same lvl.
EPT
