• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:05
CEST 16:05
KST 23:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced24BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 725 users

[D] Fundamental problems with Terran - Page 35

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 33 34 35 36 37 41 Next All
Tazerenix
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia340 Posts
December 02 2011 00:14 GMT
#681
On December 02 2011 09:11 kofman wrote:
What really gets on my nerves is that poeple used to (and occasionally still do) call Terran the "ez race", when it is just the opposite. You have to be aggresive as Terran; the ball is in your court. I'm not saying that Protoss and Zerg are ez, but calling Terran the "amove race" is just plain ignorant because Terran is the most micro-intensive.

TBH calling any race the "ez race" or "amove race" is pretty ignorant. All 3 races require pretty damn high levels of micro and macro to be efficient at a solid level.

The thing that gets me about terran is the effectiveness of their early pushes. After about ~8 minutes it all evens out but it's really frustrating losing to those early 2 rax pushes off a 1 Gate FE. Perhaps thats just me being bad but I find the cost effectiveness of the MM composition in the early game right before your transitioning to the mid-game to be brutal.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-02 00:16:32
December 02 2011 00:14 GMT
#682
The problem I have with the OP's argument is that it is literally impossible to balance a game across all levels.

Just look at Brood War.

Terran is arguably the hardest to master (Korean or not); whereas, Protoss was a lot easier for players just learning the game (a lot of foreigners decided to dominate with it).
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
December 02 2011 00:28 GMT
#683
On December 02 2011 08:42 vaderseven wrote:
Terran has the hardest execution and the easiest decision making. Execution is where skill ceiling arises from.

...

This is actually one of the better posts I've seen describing difficulties with terran.

Using TvZ as an example, its actually really easy to play safe, build up your army and know when to push out. Whats hard is simply executing a tank push without getting caught unsieged, microing individual groups of marines and tanks while still keeping up in macro, defending from mutalisks, dropping... Basically you probably know what you should be doing, but its so easy to get overwhelmed and so very hard to get the maximum efficiency from your micro-heavy units.
Kharnage
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia920 Posts
December 02 2011 00:29 GMT
#684
Ahh, terran tears, they taste so sweet.

Terran have advantages and disadvantges the same as every other race. Marines are suuuuper good until splash damage is on the field. Vikings very good at taking out the protoss super unit, and if it comes down to HT vs ghost i'd give ghost the edge. (range, speed, hp, healing from medivac, all add up to a slightly better unit)

the "spotter" obs thing is funny. if protoss is doing their job properly they have an obs to spot the terran army. if terran is doing their job properly they are scanning and killing obs. In fact, why not get yourself a raven. You've got the vikings to kill the colossus and a well timed PDD is worth it's weight in gold vs stalkers and omg the obs magically melt if you do that. And please don't insult me by saying "zomg they too expensive". If protoss have HT and colossus and a deahtball terran can get a damn raven.

But it basically comes down to this:
if all things are equal splitting and positioning your army is key for both sides.
A move protoss die fast to vikings / emp / stim.
A move terran die fast to storms / colossus / zealot.
It comes down to who is playing best that game. And yes, GAME, not engagement. Better ups or significantly stronger economy with production to back it will mean a win for either side as much as "but i did a perfect split!".
3/3 beats 0/0 for either side.
Raambo11
Profile Joined April 2011
United States828 Posts
December 02 2011 00:38 GMT
#685
On December 02 2011 09:29 Kharnage wrote:
Ahh, terran tears, they taste so sweet.

Terran have advantages and disadvantges the same as every other race. Marines are suuuuper good until splash damage is on the field. Vikings very good at taking out the protoss super unit, and if it comes down to HT vs ghost i'd give ghost the edge. (range, speed, hp, healing from medivac, all add up to a slightly better unit)

the "spotter" obs thing is funny. if protoss is doing their job properly they have an obs to spot the terran army. if terran is doing their job properly they are scanning and killing obs. In fact, why not get yourself a raven. You've got the vikings to kill the colossus and a well timed PDD is worth it's weight in gold vs stalkers and omg the obs magically melt if you do that. And please don't insult me by saying "zomg they too expensive". If protoss have HT and colossus and a deahtball terran can get a damn raven.

But it basically comes down to this:
if all things are equal splitting and positioning your army is key for both sides.
A move protoss die fast to vikings / emp / stim.
A move terran die fast to storms / colossus / zealot.
It comes down to who is playing best that game. And yes, GAME, not engagement. Better ups or significantly stronger economy with production to back it will mean a win for either side as much as "but i did a perfect split!".
3/3 beats 0/0 for either side.


Actually A move protoss does not die to vikings/emp/stim at all, a move terran does not die to all 3 of storm collosus and zealot, it only takes 1 (maybe not just zealot). If you a move into collosus without focus firing or having all ur bio clumped and not spread YOU WILL LOSE. Go try it.
Fig
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1324 Posts
December 02 2011 01:02 GMT
#686
This thread is looking from the wrong perspective. It's not a problem that Terran units are all very microable. The problem is that many toss and zerg units are NOT. Unfortunately this is because Blizzard seems intent on removing some micro from the game. One example of this is when they hugely nerfed the charged damage on voidrays, severely reducing the incentive to micro them carefully. The void ray used to be the perfect example of a unit that is like what terrans have. On the weak side without micro, and on the strong side when micro is applied. Blizzard noobified it to be better without micro, and worse with micro. Is this type of change really what terrans want for their own units? I don't think so. I know that for me, the void ray went from being my favorite unit to my second least favorite overnight. Well, maybe not overnight. The removal of fazing was also sad to see, from the standpoint of someone who likes the micro potential of units.

What's my least favorite unit? The colossus. It used to require some micro when it had a high damage, high cooldown attack. Then Blizzard changed it to have lower damage, lower cooldown. This again reduced incentive to put apm into microing it. Everyone should want a game where each unit gets better if more micro is applied to control it. Right now only terrans have more of those units than the other races. Instead of making terran units more boring, what is needed is for units to increase in "microability" to make the game more interesting.
Can't elope with my cantaloupe
eSuBuildings
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States71 Posts
December 02 2011 01:38 GMT
#687
/not reading all posts in this thread so not sure if stated or not.

Mules should have a cool down.
"In nature, for organisms, winning means life and losing is death. Although the example’s a bit extreme, humans too possess some of those instincts. People who’ve learned the fear of defeat, thirst for victory."
jinixxx123
Profile Joined June 2010
543 Posts
December 02 2011 01:55 GMT
#688
On December 02 2011 10:38 eSuBuildings wrote:
/not reading all posts in this thread so not sure if stated or not.

Mules should have a cool down.



cap those chronoboosts so i dont have to face 3/3 armies with my 1/1 and disallow macro hatches for queen injects and then we have a deal !
RavenLoud
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada1100 Posts
December 02 2011 02:04 GMT
#689
On December 02 2011 10:55 jinixxx123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2011 10:38 eSuBuildings wrote:
/not reading all posts in this thread so not sure if stated or not.

Mules should have a cool down.



cap those chronoboosts so i dont have to face 3/3 armies with my 1/1 and disallow macro hatches for queen injects and then we have a deal !

Take it to bnet please.
kofman
Profile Joined August 2011
Andorra698 Posts
December 02 2011 02:12 GMT
#690
On December 02 2011 11:04 RavenLoud wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2011 10:55 jinixxx123 wrote:
On December 02 2011 10:38 eSuBuildings wrote:
/not reading all posts in this thread so not sure if stated or not.

Mules should have a cool down.



cap those chronoboosts so i dont have to face 3/3 armies with my 1/1 and disallow macro hatches for queen injects and then we have a deal !

Take it to bnet please.

Same goes for you.
RavenLoud
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada1100 Posts
December 02 2011 02:17 GMT
#691
On December 02 2011 11:12 kofman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2011 11:04 RavenLoud wrote:
On December 02 2011 10:55 jinixxx123 wrote:
On December 02 2011 10:38 eSuBuildings wrote:
/not reading all posts in this thread so not sure if stated or not.

Mules should have a cool down.



cap those chronoboosts so i dont have to face 3/3 armies with my 1/1 and disallow macro hatches for queen injects and then we have a deal !

Take it to bnet please.

Same goes for you.

This whole thread could very well go there.

Andreas
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Norway214 Posts
December 02 2011 02:20 GMT
#692
On December 02 2011 09:14 Tazerenix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2011 09:11 kofman wrote:
What really gets on my nerves is that poeple used to (and occasionally still do) call Terran the "ez race", when it is just the opposite. You have to be aggresive as Terran; the ball is in your court. I'm not saying that Protoss and Zerg are ez, but calling Terran the "amove race" is just plain ignorant because Terran is the most micro-intensive.

TBH calling any race the "ez race" or "amove race" is pretty ignorant. All 3 races require pretty damn high levels of micro and macro to be efficient at a solid level.

The thing that gets me about terran is the effectiveness of their early pushes. After about ~8 minutes it all evens out but it's really frustrating losing to those early 2 rax pushes off a 1 Gate FE. Perhaps thats just me being bad but I find the cost effectiveness of the MM composition in the early game right before your transitioning to the mid-game to be brutal.

If you throw down 3 more gateways after the nexus you'll kill the push easily simply with mass zealot stalker + a sentry or two. Even with just a total of 3 gateways it's possible, but you'll be making a more even army trade and will have to micro a bit harder. The only times I have success with a 2rax vs protoss is if I trick them into not expecting it or they simply don't know that they need to chrono out some units to defend their fast expansion.

If anything, I'd say protoss has the advantage regarding early-game pushes in TvP. Against a 1gate expand, 4gate can be really effective especially on certain maps where you can abuse high-ground warpins, mass blink stalker all-ins can be very potent if terran doesn't build a ton of bunkers, and there's also the fast expand into 4-5gate pressure or 6-7gate all-in.

Another advantage protoss has is flexibility. On a huge map, Terran can't really 2rax unless it's proxied, which makes it a big risk, while thanks to the warp-in mechanics, gateway pushes are just as good on a big map as a small one.
xUnSeEnx
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States183 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-02 02:34:49
December 02 2011 02:27 GMT
#693
On December 02 2011 10:02 Fig wrote:
This thread is looking from the wrong perspective. It's not a problem that Terran units are all very microable. The problem is that many toss and zerg units are NOT. Unfortunately this is because Blizzard seems intent on removing some micro from the game. One example of this is when they hugely nerfed the charged damage on voidrays, severely reducing the incentive to micro them carefully. The void ray used to be the perfect example of a unit that is like what terrans have. On the weak side without micro, and on the strong side when micro is applied. Blizzard noobified it to be better without micro, and worse with micro. Is this type of change really what terrans want for their own units? I don't think so. I know that for me, the void ray went from being my favorite unit to my second least favorite overnight. Well, maybe not overnight. The removal of fazing was also sad to see, from the standpoint of someone who likes the micro potential of units.

What's my least favorite unit? The colossus. It used to require some micro when it had a high damage, high cooldown attack. Then Blizzard changed it to have lower damage, lower cooldown. This again reduced incentive to put apm into microing it. Everyone should want a game where each unit gets better if more micro is applied to control it. Right now only terrans have more of those units than the other races. Instead of making terran units more boring, what is needed is for units to increase in "microability" to make the game more interesting.


Bingo, its not that terran is "too microable" its that Blizzard created 2 other races that require less micro abilities. For an example, look at top pro games in TvZ. If you really, really study the replays that come with it you will see the difference between a zerg's micro and a terran's micro in the midst of the battle. It takes an absorbent amount of skill to simply split you lings and blings. (Sarcasm for all the slow people in TL.)

Another example of TvP, a-move chargelots and do the same "simple-ish" split that zergs do with lings. 90% of the time there is actually little to no micro of chargelots in the battle. The only unit(s) that I ever see having to do some sort of micro is the colossus, (occassionally), Rofl at target firing with stalkers (man that is just too difficult), okay I give protoss they need to know how to use HT kinda, and FF from sentries (phew pressing the f key and rapid right clicking the mouse is hard). While terran, due to the design, split or die, make mass vikings and target fire the collossus while you are being torn up by mass chargelot and HT, and Oh yea snipe with your ghosts in the middle of the battle or the trade was ineffective and you lose. That is the problem.

Now a solution, builds similar to the TvZ in Broodwar, possibly approx. 9 min push every game until something is done?
"All your base are belong to us."
Juanald
Profile Joined February 2011
United States354 Posts
December 02 2011 03:22 GMT
#694
On December 02 2011 11:27 xUnSeEnx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2011 10:02 Fig wrote:
This thread is looking from the wrong perspective. It's not a problem that Terran units are all very microable. The problem is that many toss and zerg units are NOT. Unfortunately this is because Blizzard seems intent on removing some micro from the game. One example of this is when they hugely nerfed the charged damage on voidrays, severely reducing the incentive to micro them carefully. The void ray used to be the perfect example of a unit that is like what terrans have. On the weak side without micro, and on the strong side when micro is applied. Blizzard noobified it to be better without micro, and worse with micro. Is this type of change really what terrans want for their own units? I don't think so. I know that for me, the void ray went from being my favorite unit to my second least favorite overnight. Well, maybe not overnight. The removal of fazing was also sad to see, from the standpoint of someone who likes the micro potential of units.

What's my least favorite unit? The colossus. It used to require some micro when it had a high damage, high cooldown attack. Then Blizzard changed it to have lower damage, lower cooldown. This again reduced incentive to put apm into microing it. Everyone should want a game where each unit gets better if more micro is applied to control it. Right now only terrans have more of those units than the other races. Instead of making terran units more boring, what is needed is for units to increase in "microability" to make the game more interesting.


Bingo, its not that terran is "too microable" its that Blizzard created 2 other races that require less micro abilities. For an example, look at top pro games in TvZ. If you really, really study the replays that come with it you will see the difference between a zerg's micro and a terran's micro in the midst of the battle. It takes an absorbent amount of skill to simply split you lings and blings. (Sarcasm for all the slow people in TL.)

Another example of TvP, a-move chargelots and do the same "simple-ish" split that zergs do with lings. 90% of the time there is actually little to no micro of chargelots in the battle. The only unit(s) that I ever see having to do some sort of micro is the colossus, (occassionally), Rofl at target firing with stalkers (man that is just too difficult), okay I give protoss they need to know how to use HT kinda, and FF from sentries (phew pressing the f key and rapid right clicking the mouse is hard). While terran, due to the design, split or die, make mass vikings and target fire the collossus while you are being torn up by mass chargelot and HT, and Oh yea snipe with your ghosts in the middle of the battle or the trade was ineffective and you lose. That is the problem.

Now a solution, builds similar to the TvZ in Broodwar, possibly approx. 9 min push every game until something is done?


you just simply dont know or are ignoring how difficult it is to keep your zealots in front of your collossus how does that require less micro then terran bioball.
"hey it could happen!" ~ angels n the outfield
kofman
Profile Joined August 2011
Andorra698 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-02 03:34:06
December 02 2011 03:33 GMT
#695
On December 02 2011 12:22 Juanald wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2011 11:27 xUnSeEnx wrote:
On December 02 2011 10:02 Fig wrote:
This thread is looking from the wrong perspective. It's not a problem that Terran units are all very microable. The problem is that many toss and zerg units are NOT. Unfortunately this is because Blizzard seems intent on removing some micro from the game. One example of this is when they hugely nerfed the charged damage on voidrays, severely reducing the incentive to micro them carefully. The void ray used to be the perfect example of a unit that is like what terrans have. On the weak side without micro, and on the strong side when micro is applied. Blizzard noobified it to be better without micro, and worse with micro. Is this type of change really what terrans want for their own units? I don't think so. I know that for me, the void ray went from being my favorite unit to my second least favorite overnight. Well, maybe not overnight. The removal of fazing was also sad to see, from the standpoint of someone who likes the micro potential of units.

What's my least favorite unit? The colossus. It used to require some micro when it had a high damage, high cooldown attack. Then Blizzard changed it to have lower damage, lower cooldown. This again reduced incentive to put apm into microing it. Everyone should want a game where each unit gets better if more micro is applied to control it. Right now only terrans have more of those units than the other races. Instead of making terran units more boring, what is needed is for units to increase in "microability" to make the game more interesting.


Bingo, its not that terran is "too microable" its that Blizzard created 2 other races that require less micro abilities. For an example, look at top pro games in TvZ. If you really, really study the replays that come with it you will see the difference between a zerg's micro and a terran's micro in the midst of the battle. It takes an absorbent amount of skill to simply split you lings and blings. (Sarcasm for all the slow people in TL.)

Another example of TvP, a-move chargelots and do the same "simple-ish" split that zergs do with lings. 90% of the time there is actually little to no micro of chargelots in the battle. The only unit(s) that I ever see having to do some sort of micro is the colossus, (occassionally), Rofl at target firing with stalkers (man that is just too difficult), okay I give protoss they need to know how to use HT kinda, and FF from sentries (phew pressing the f key and rapid right clicking the mouse is hard). While terran, due to the design, split or die, make mass vikings and target fire the collossus while you are being torn up by mass chargelot and HT, and Oh yea snipe with your ghosts in the middle of the battle or the trade was ineffective and you lose. That is the problem.

Now a solution, builds similar to the TvZ in Broodwar, possibly approx. 9 min push every game until something is done?


you just simply dont know or are ignoring how difficult it is to keep your zealots in front of your collossus how does that require less micro then terran bioball.

yea, putting your zealots in front of your collosi is very hard. The amount of micro it takes is unimaginable.
5unrise
Profile Joined May 2009
New Zealand646 Posts
December 02 2011 03:33 GMT
#696
On December 02 2011 12:22 Juanald wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2011 11:27 xUnSeEnx wrote:
On December 02 2011 10:02 Fig wrote:
This thread is looking from the wrong perspective. It's not a problem that Terran units are all very microable. The problem is that many toss and zerg units are NOT. Unfortunately this is because Blizzard seems intent on removing some micro from the game. One example of this is when they hugely nerfed the charged damage on voidrays, severely reducing the incentive to micro them carefully. The void ray used to be the perfect example of a unit that is like what terrans have. On the weak side without micro, and on the strong side when micro is applied. Blizzard noobified it to be better without micro, and worse with micro. Is this type of change really what terrans want for their own units? I don't think so. I know that for me, the void ray went from being my favorite unit to my second least favorite overnight. Well, maybe not overnight. The removal of fazing was also sad to see, from the standpoint of someone who likes the micro potential of units.

What's my least favorite unit? The colossus. It used to require some micro when it had a high damage, high cooldown attack. Then Blizzard changed it to have lower damage, lower cooldown. This again reduced incentive to put apm into microing it. Everyone should want a game where each unit gets better if more micro is applied to control it. Right now only terrans have more of those units than the other races. Instead of making terran units more boring, what is needed is for units to increase in "microability" to make the game more interesting.


Bingo, its not that terran is "too microable" its that Blizzard created 2 other races that require less micro abilities. For an example, look at top pro games in TvZ. If you really, really study the replays that come with it you will see the difference between a zerg's micro and a terran's micro in the midst of the battle. It takes an absorbent amount of skill to simply split you lings and blings. (Sarcasm for all the slow people in TL.)

Another example of TvP, a-move chargelots and do the same "simple-ish" split that zergs do with lings. 90% of the time there is actually little to no micro of chargelots in the battle. The only unit(s) that I ever see having to do some sort of micro is the colossus, (occassionally), Rofl at target firing with stalkers (man that is just too difficult), okay I give protoss they need to know how to use HT kinda, and FF from sentries (phew pressing the f key and rapid right clicking the mouse is hard). While terran, due to the design, split or die, make mass vikings and target fire the collossus while you are being torn up by mass chargelot and HT, and Oh yea snipe with your ghosts in the middle of the battle or the trade was ineffective and you lose. That is the problem.

Now a solution, builds similar to the TvZ in Broodwar, possibly approx. 9 min push every game until something is done?


you just simply dont know or are ignoring how difficult it is to keep your zealots in front of your collossus how does that require less micro then terran bioball.


Your zealots can move under the colossus... so if you hit s on the colossus for a second, your zealots will move in front. Sorry, that doesn't seem to me as difficult.
Necrophantasia
Profile Joined May 2010
Japan299 Posts
December 02 2011 03:42 GMT
#697
I guess it's because you're terran you're comepletely blind to the issues of other races.

Protoss positioning is difficult because all of your units move at different speeds. Getting into a good position with all your units in the right place is actually quite difficult. That's why even pros mess it up and get their zealots trapped all the time. There are a lot of games where the protoss doesn't get this perfect before the engagement and gets slaughtered.

As EZ mode Terran, I wouldn't expect you to understand when your entire MMMVG moves at the same damn speed.
kofman
Profile Joined August 2011
Andorra698 Posts
December 02 2011 03:46 GMT
#698
On December 02 2011 12:42 Necrophantasia wrote:
As EZ mode Terran, I wouldn't expect you to understand when your entire MMMVG moves at the same damn speed.

marine move at 2.25 speed, medivacs move at 2.5 speed... plz actually play the game before you post.
RavenLoud
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada1100 Posts
December 02 2011 04:45 GMT
#699
On December 02 2011 12:46 kofman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2011 12:42 Necrophantasia wrote:
As EZ mode Terran, I wouldn't expect you to understand when your entire MMMVG moves at the same damn speed.

marine move at 2.25 speed, medivacs move at 2.5 speed... plz actually play the game before you post.

You aren't suppose to keep them on the same hotkey though. All the combat units are of the same speed. If you a-move and kite with your medivacs then you actually are doing it wrong.

Same for protoss, most pros at least put stalkers on another hotkey.
vaderseven
Profile Joined September 2008
United States2556 Posts
December 02 2011 04:58 GMT
#700
On December 02 2011 09:28 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 02 2011 08:42 vaderseven wrote:
Terran has the hardest execution and the easiest decision making. Execution is where skill ceiling arises from.

...

This is actually one of the better posts I've seen describing difficulties with terran.

Using TvZ as an example, its actually really easy to play safe, build up your army and know when to push out. Whats hard is simply executing a tank push without getting caught unsieged, microing individual groups of marines and tanks while still keeping up in macro, defending from mutalisks, dropping... Basically you probably know what you should be doing, but its so easy to get overwhelmed and so very hard to get the maximum efficiency from your micro-heavy units.


I've had alot of reason to think about it.

I played terran from start of beta till 3 months ago. In Feb of this year I developed wrist issues in my mouse hand especially after long games vs zerg. It was bad enough to make my hand unable to open doors.

I took a 6 week break (omg I was playing 40-50 hours a week before this gah so hard) and then slowly played more and more again.

It started to come back.

Since I have switched races it has gone comletely.

For reference I was a 'macro' terran with ~230-270 apm as sc2gears saw it. Its like switching from playing a fast pased fighting game to playing chess to go from Terran to Protoss.

There is nothing easy about it at the level I play with either race (I was high master on NA and mid master KR terran playing vs GMs a bit on NA and currently low/mid master on NA and KR as P). Execution and decision making lost me games for both races. As terran though, it was always more so the execution side. As protoss, the level of decision making to even play a decent set of games at mid masters on KR is beyond what I was doing decision wise as terran at any point in time.

Its also VERY fair to point out that the korean method of training leads to VERY good execution and sometimes sub par decision making (I saw insanely well executed but awfully done builds on the KR server and MVP once voiced this opionon on Koreans vs the World at one point) while the non korean approach encourages a much more adaptable (decision making based) play style that isnt executed 100% correctly.

Koreans win by doing whatever they choose to do almost perfectly and Non-Koreans win by chosing to do the right thing decisions every time.

Its not really an imba thing vs non imba thing.
Prev 1 33 34 35 36 37 41 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
14:00
Bracket Day 2 - Final
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs Krystianer
uThermal vs SKillousLIVE!
Reynor vs MaNa
Lambo vs Gerald
RotterdaM1786
ComeBackTV 1724
IndyStarCraft 577
WardiTV347
CranKy Ducklings181
Rex148
3DClanTV 68
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1786
IndyStarCraft 577
Rex 148
BRAT_OK 76
MindelVK 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 50677
Horang2 6382
EffOrt 1523
Barracks 1318
Larva 982
Stork 675
BeSt 627
firebathero 528
Soulkey 267
Hyun 232
[ Show more ]
Last 223
Rush 108
Dewaltoss 81
Sharp 66
Shinee 63
Sea.KH 59
sSak 55
Free 55
Movie 55
Shine 35
sas.Sziky 33
sorry 33
zelot 20
yabsab 18
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Terrorterran 9
Dota 2
Gorgc4311
qojqva3471
XcaliburYe459
420jenkins183
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
sgares335
fl0m310
oskar172
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor562
Other Games
B2W.Neo2185
Beastyqt1401
Hui .349
DeMusliM226
Fuzer 173
QueenE57
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV32
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 14
• poizon28 5
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4278
• WagamamaTV793
League of Legends
• Nemesis2611
• Jankos1301
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3h 56m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Wardi Open
20h 56m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 19h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.