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CCalms
United States341 Posts
Mass carrier vs grandmaster zerg http://www.filedropper.com/antigashipyard94 Mass carrier vs grandmaster terran Both of these replays are from within two days ago. Please stop whining in threads and spend your time actually making the units to see that they DO work and they work well. In the PvT game, I think there are VERY few other solutions that would have saved me the game. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26074 Posts
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CCalms
United States341 Posts
On January 19 2012 10:30 Wombat_NI wrote: Will check them out man, always cool to see carriers. Are you utilising them often or just every so often as an 'out there' build? I usually have to resort to them vs mech terrans but I hardly ever play against mech. On large maps like tal darim, though, I have found mass air to be SOOOO good in PvZ | ||
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Jarree
Finland1004 Posts
On January 19 2012 10:19 CCalms wrote: http://www.filedropper.com/antigashipyard94 Mass carrier vs grandmaster terran Both of these replays are from within two days ago. Please stop whining in threads and spend your time actually making the units to see that they DO work and they work well. In the PvT game, I think there are VERY few other solutions that would have saved me the game. You had this game won 8:30 already, supplies are 58-27 in your favor. Yet the game lasted for more than 20 minutes more. You could have picked any unit in the game and made only those and won. Actually, you could say you won this game despite the carriers. | ||
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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drop271
New Zealand286 Posts
On January 19 2012 11:23 HeeroFX wrote: I think in order to make both the BC and the Carrier better, they have to find a way to make them worthwhile to get. Prehapps giving them a upgrade that gives them an interesting ability to deal with vikings or corruptors ect ect Yeah, BCs need some sort of ability that can stop kiting vikings from escaping. Maybe some sort of cannon that one shots vikings... | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
On January 19 2012 08:43 Wombat_NI wrote: I propose a trade-off. Reduced targeting priority for carriers if the same provision is expanded to broodlings! The problem with broodlings is that they block your entire army and soak up your entire army's DPS. You blink under BLs and snipe a few, get rooted and stuck/fungalled. Then the process repeats and everything is stuck out of range until blink cooldowns. Bl/Infestor is incredibly different to deal with on anything other than open ground like in the middle of Shattered Temple for this reason. Interceptors aren't even as big an issue as this as they don't have collision detection, and it's a pretty small change annoyed I didn't think of it myself! Worst Blizz can do is try it. I don't think BL's are broken, and that would be way too much of a nerf. In fact, ironically, if you're having trouble with BL infestor, try carriers. They kick ass when you get a good number and have a vortex on hand. I do think it would help carriers vT though. Unless the Terran has a brain meltdown and decides to go mech, interceptors die unreasonably quickly against rine balls. | ||
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Legion710
Canada423 Posts
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B-Roll
United States403 Posts
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sjperera
Canada349 Posts
Blizzard hasn't even tried making the carrier work and after seeing Jangbi in the OSL, I was like... we got to find a way. During SotG they came up with some interesting suggestions... like: 1. free interceptors (but they gotta be pumped out manually) 2. fixing the micro-issue (perhaps have a hot key to make intercepters return back to the carrier?) ... | ||
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Mobius_1
United Kingdom2763 Posts
I would agree that the Carrier could use a few buffs, maybe cost less minerals and build faster? Also come out with fewer interceptors but have each one build faster and have slightly more HP whatever it is? I tried to think of more suggestions but they just all end up reverting to BW, and not in a million years will Browder et al be able to accept such changes then. Also Tempest is by no means a good enough replacement for the Carrier. It's more of a less useful Thor than a good old game-ending capital ship. | ||
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TheTurk
United States732 Posts
I think a range upgrade and the ability to move and still have interceptors shoot would make the Carrier really usable and hopefully not too OP. I'm with you on this one though; startup an online petition soon and hopefully this gains momentum. | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
Viking Range 9, acceleration 2.625, top speed 2.75. Those are the only stats that actually matter, because of the following thing stats of the carrier - speed 1.875 acceleration 1.063. As you can see the viking out-ranges the carrier by just enough to hit and run, and they also move fast enough that carriers can't keep up. This is the same as Vikings vs Battlecruisers, Vikings have just enough range and are just fast enough that they can absolutely decimate BC. In the case of the Viking, with proper micro you can take out carriers while taking minimal losses, and this is compounded by the problems noted above, like the interceptor AI problem, the upgrade problem and the production problem. Please stop spreading this myth of vikings countering carriers. http://drop.sc/94145 + Show Spoiler + Mech Rant: Classic Mech Engagement at 22 minutes 3/3 mech vs 0/0/2 protoss. 5 tanks outta the battle: 3 for defense, 2 reinforcing. Still though, it woulda been gg right after that lost battle if he had killed my expos. Thank god he didnt. Kinda hiliarous how I have 3/3 mech for like 10-15 minutes against his pathetically upgraded protoss units and he still comes out on top Anyways the important battle is at 39 minutes. Note that I have 3/3 air and 3/3 mech. He is vastly under upgraded with 1/0/3 ground and 0/0 air. 5 carriers (in the battle, 3 reinforcing) vs 16 vikings and 2 ravens. 5 carrers cost 1250 gas. 16 vikings is 1200 gas. The vikings get dominated. I realise that storms are the victor here, but still.... T_T Maybe if my ghosts werent afk and actually EMPd every templar. I dunno, you'd think 3/3 vikings would be better against carriers. I've had more viking vs carrier games than this one and I really don't wanna see viking > carrier anymore. | ||
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GohgamX
Canada1096 Posts
 I would much rather see it get some buffs but on the other hand maybe there's an application that hasn't been explored o_O | ||
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Jinx...
South Africa32 Posts
stim marines are too good vs carrier and the fact that terran goes mmm anyway doesn't help(not hating on terran ) In Hots the battle-hellion seems to to be good for soaking up splash damage, so hopefully mech(tanks and battle-hellion) can be viable in hots and that in turn will make carriers good again. Just throw in the carrier bug. | ||
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TeTrodoToxIn
United States18 Posts
This unit has been broken for too and just ignored so that it could ultimately be removed? Prior to this Blizz, has never removed a unit with an expansion, I am just disappointed that this is how they intend to approach the game. Removing an iconic unit because they don't feel like fixing it is just sad. Would be like removing hydralisks entirely because they aren't used much. | ||
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
In every aspect of the story Protoss are presented as superior tech race with their fleet counted as almost Unbeatable. And yet in the game we see that Toss are stuck with: 1. Fragile Phoenixes, which is a good scouting unit and for harrasment in descent numbers, but they are not so cost-efficent in straight-up battles, almost useless. 2. Void-rays - a big, slow, flying, heavy-fire turret. Would be very nice to use it for good hit and run on key buildings, except right now there is no Run. Speed makes efficency of void-rays go down heavy. 3. Carriers. Well a lot is explained in OP, i would only add that it's hard to think out a build with carriers as a backbone. But lets just switch to what is said about Protoss fleet, as being air-dominant. What are Protoss Air counters to: 1. Muta - Phoenix, but muta usually overwhelms them, due production speed and quantity. 2. Corrupters - Phoenix? - nope too fragile. Void-ray - probably, but again zerg is just going to overwhelm void-ray count. Carrier? no wait, it's massive and corrupters do well agains massive, oh yes and there's corruption ability. 3. Brood lords - ALL PROTOSS AIR COUNTER BROODS CUZ THEY DONT ATTACK AIR. Hm, no wait there are usually a ton of corrupters flying with them, damn, failed. So see p.2 4. Vikings: Range 9. coolface.jpg 5. Banshee - Phoenix, yes! cuz they dont attack air, but they do have cloak, so u should get obs and speed for obs also. 6. Battlecruisers - Void ray? - Yamato fire! 7. Raven - Void ray. So as i see it dominance of protoss in the sky is very doubtfull. | ||
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PsyChoRo
Romania85 Posts
 ] in the Legacy of the Void, right ? | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
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Starcraft2Germany
Switzerland19 Posts
Carrier in PvT just work with Storms over vikings, but carriers are so strong in Late Game with Storms and Chargelots and so on. @Topic Carrier need a huge build time buff and a little speed buff, then they work (Late game). Carrier could work today if you could actually micro them. But when you micro them back the intercepters are stopping to attack... Then have to be like broodlords: go back - throw broodlings - go back - throw broodlings.... | ||
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